Why has woofing become SO important?

[OldHasBeen]

Aunty Dan - I noticed that........

I noticed that your signature refers to a quote from Shakespeare.

When speaking about pool -
a quote from "Cornbread-Red" would be more appropriate !!!

TY & GL

 

[Tom In Cincy]

If woofing goes on in golf then I stand corrected. .

Rick,
I know it is a Hollywood picture with extremes about gambling, but you ought to see 'Tin Cup' a golf movie that has some woofing.

Good comedy, good acting and some great woofing scenes.

Woofing is allowed in Chess, but the players don't know how.

 

[1pRoscoe]

You wouldn't believe the smack talked on an 18 hole course....

 

[drivermaker]

D'maker,

Thanks for the info and hx lesson on golf. I don't like golf at all. Tried it a couple of times and it's just too boring for me. Too much time just walking to the next shot. I love pool! I want pool to become as big as golf because I want to see it flourish. It's a great great game and deserves to be in the limelight instead of the back-rooms. Can you imagine how great the game or the players would be if there was as much money to be made playing it as there is in golf?

I agree, but there are probably just as many players that feel the same way about bowling, darts, ping pong and a bunch of other sports that they're equally as passionate about. It still comes down to ticket sales, TV ratings, sponsors, and all those things that have been brought up in other threads about making pool grow as a sport.

BTW, you don't have to spend all that time walking in between shots if you aren't in a tournament. You get a turbo charged hemi golf cart which allows you to almost fly from one shot to another, that is unless you have a bunch of slow f*#ks in front of you.

 

[AuntyDan]

Do you really think that the average TV audience would watch (or even remotely comprehend) what is going on when watching a player run 3 racks of 9 ball? Obviously not, or it would be as popular and lucrative as golf or even bowling.

I don't agree that it is understanding the rules of 9 Ball that limits the popularity of televised Pool. Explaining the multiple combinations of weight and game formats is much more complex. The only succesful, regular televised pool in the US at present is the ESPN WPBA coverage, that has none of the "Color" elements.

I'm sure to people who have spent their lives in the US Pool community intricately involved in money games this would be interesting to them, but that is a tiny minority of the population.

There is certainly a percentage of the US TV watching population who will watch anything as long as a large enough amount of money is being thrown around. This has been proven not only by the boom in televised Poker, but by shows like "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire?" and the rash of "reality" game shows. I agree if someone could be found to finance large enough prize funds Pool could be exploited in the same way, and in a format that encouraged "Color", but that money does not exist in the Pool community. Poker gets the money from the Casinos, who know people watching on TV will be encouraged to drop in to the Poker room the next time they are in Vegas, if only for the thrill of doing something they've seen on TV. I just don't see an equivalent to how televised high-stakes Pool gambling would positively effect Pool as a sport in the US.

 

[JAM]

Name-brand recognition

As soon as I read "I'll back Fabio for whatever he wants, Dennis.Let's get it going." the first thought into my head was "Two brothers and a Stranger". If you have read the book of "The Color Of Money" you will find a scene almost exactly like this...Of course, if Dennis was genuinely backing himself with his own money, this is not the case, but can you ever really know that for sure....

For a little clarity about the GCO barkfest, Fabio Petroni vs. The Hatchet, Dennis barked loudly for quite a while, while Fabio sat patiently and listened, rarely uttering a word. Problem was, Fabio only had half the cheese Dennis wanted to wager. However, even knowing this, Dennis continued to verbally pound on Fabio. This is when the friendly spectator stood up and demanded to back Fabio. The story did have a happy ending for the Italian pool player AND the local railbird who put up half the post. No dump.

What is disconcerting to me sometimes is reading posts related to action games AND tournament matches AND ring games in which one states the loss of one player had to have been a "business game," i.e., the almighty dump.

Not saying it doesn't ever happen, but I think when some folks are unhappy with the outcome, they use this "dump" reasoning, which is sickening to the pool player who actually did give it his all.

I have to disagree with JAM on the question of whether the "colorful" characters in (mostly) US Pool are a benefit to the sport or not. Perhaps it is a result of growing up in the UK and being raised watching (publicly) polite and respectful professional Snooker players, but I would rather watch a battle of cue skills when I see a pro pool tournament than a battle of egos and verbal abuse intended purely to make money for a group of shadowy interested parties in the background. We have quite enough elected politicians for that.

When I see a battle of egos and verbal abuse, I don't see it coming from the players, Aunty Dan. The real pool politics lies in those who create barriers, stop signs, and insurmountable hurdles for the American pool player attempting to be all that he/she can be. Too many chiefs, and not enough Indians, and there are those at the top enjoying their merry way, neglecting the rights of the struggling American pool-playing prostitutes they use AND abuse on their way to the top.

Pool needs a personality, not a bunch of pool player mimes. Without it, the industry will continue to suffer. It needs a presence on national TV. Unfortunately for the pool purists who enjoy mum pool and the pool scientists who take pride in disseminating their theorums about squirt/deflection, they only make up a very minute percentage of interested parties and don't generate enough capital to elevate the status in American sports. When somebody figures out how to get some name-brand recognition, I believe we will be on our way to greener pastures.

Check out the Skins Billiards Championship when it is aired on January 2nd, 2005, on ESPN. This may be a step in the right direction.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[Rickw]

Tom,

Saw the movie. Loved it! One of the few good movies Costner has been in. As you said, it was Hollywood. I don't disagree with you about the woofing. My point was that it can and has gotten out of hand on occasion. Plus, golf has minimized it so much that you never hear about it on the TV. They have gone overboard in my opinion to minimize it and I wonder if that had anything to do with making it such a rich sport. I have been witness to Bucktooth's woofing now for years and have to admit that most of the time, it is very entertaining. Now there's a guy who is going to woof and woof until he gets the DEAD NUTS!!

Rick,
I know it is a Hollywood picture with extremes about gambling, but you ought to see 'Tin Cup' a golf movie that has some woofing.

Good comedy, good acting and some great woofing scenes.

Woofing is allowed in Chess, but the players don't know how.

 

[Rickw]

D'maker,

I don't know you but I'd guess that you have probably been a real terror on a golf course or two in the past! LOL!! Strap a keg of beer on that hemi golf cart and add a couple of friends, sounds like a great Saturday!!

I agree, but there are probably just as many players that feel the same way about bowling, darts, ping pong and a bunch of other sports that they're equally as passionate about. It still comes down to ticket sales, TV ratings, sponsors, and all those things that have been brought up in other threads about making pool grow as a sport.

BTW, you don't have to spend all that time walking in between shots if you aren't in a tournament. You get a turbo charged hemi golf cart which allows you to almost fly from one shot to another, that is unless you have a bunch of slow f*#ks in front of you.

 

[drivermaker]

Rick,
I know it is a Hollywood picture with extremes about gambling, but you ought to see 'Tin Cup' a golf movie that has some woofing.

It might not be as extreme as you think. I used to be one of only a few white players that frequented a predominantly black golf course years ago and gambled among all the guys. I can't even start to tell you about the daily woofing sessions that preceed a variety of matches. It was like some kind of comedy jam on top of it.

The clubhouse had a large concrete porch held up by thick columns and an overhanging roof. There used to be woofing and gambling matches going off right on the porch when guys would hit a golf ball off of a bristle type door mat... through the columns and under the roof ... over a small tree... across a corner of the parking lot where cars were parked and back over a small chain link fence that surrounded the parking lot to a green on the golf course which was about 140 yards away.

If that was accomplished without hitting into the parking lot (automatic loss) you would then walk around to your ball to see who could get it into the hole in the least number of strokes. I've seen thousands of dollars exchanging hands in these sessions between players and side bets and I lost and won hundreds of dollars myself. It was a wild scene.

 

[JAM]

...Plus, golf has minimized it so much that you never hear about it on the TV. They have gone overboard in my opinion to minimize it and I wonder if that had anything to do with making it such a rich sport....

The fact that golf is usually played in some of the most exotic resorts around the world, the lap of luxury, sure does help a tad bit.

For a mere half-a-million dollars or more, a golf enthusiast can join Exclusive Resorts [website]. When you check out these playing venues, you can just imagine the friendly spectators, prospective sponsors, and golf enthusiasts this game of golf attracts. Quite different than the audience you see at most pool tournaments.

Poker is having a fantastic run currently on national TV. How long it will last is anybody's guess, but if the featured six poker players battled it out for several hours, never muttering a word, I don't think it would be make for an enjoyable TV viewing experience.

JAM

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Yes, you are wrong .... twice.

First, I don't know what the etiquette is on CCB, but around here we show respect for each other in our posts, and use of the term "try to Jew the guy out of a bigger spot" is unacceptable here. Odds are, Tommy, you're a good guy who has just slipped this once by using insensitive language on a public forum, so I hate to give you a hard time. Forgive me.
.

SJM, YOU don't need to be forgivin. Tommy, this language is plain wrong and frankly, it's alarming and I'm offended. What I find most disgusting about it is, you could have easily used a word like "scam" and you would have gotten your point across fine. It's almost as though you went out of your way to use it.

I'm not here to give a history lesson nor am I here to preach about the value of respecting others but if there's one thing I've always enjoyed about pool is that usually people don't care where you're from, what you do or who you sleep with. They only care about how you play pool. I happen to be very fortunate. I'm a Jew living in New York City which happens to be one of the few places people like me can live without the fear of getting rounded up and thrown on a freight train or blown up on a bus. I'm also in great debt to this society we live in because of the inalienable right granted to me in the constitution to call Tommy an idiot for saying such things.

Every other day now I read an article in the paper about how some Jewish cemetary in France was desecrated or how swastikas were painted on Jews' lawns down south and I seriously wonder if this is truly a better society we live in or if we're on the cusp of another horrible event. You see Tommy, when you say something like that, it doesn't just roll off my back. I don't just view it as mere rude ignorance and stupidity on your part. It's frightening. The fact that you can casually insert it into a post that has absolutely nothing to do with judaism makes it even worse. You want to post such things, feel free to start www.kkkbilliards.com so you can freely post all the bigotry your pea-sized mind desires. I believe the url is available.


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[bsmutz]

I love pool and love to watch it being played on TV by the best. But I also enjoy entertainment, and there are very few players that are truly entertaining to watch. Jeannette Lee is definitely the best entertainer that pool has (that I've seen on TV). I like that little thing that Allison does like she's shooting her opponent when she wins. I liked Earl's outburst when he won that game against Harriman. I've seen Dawn talk to Karen, Jeannette, or Allison before a match and try to get them to do some woofing and Jeanette's the only one that looks like she is having fun. The others just look like deer in headlights. Now Minnesota Fats went a little overboard in my opinion, but still, it was great to hear and see some personality. I spent some time at a WPBA tournament this year and had a chance to speak to Allison, Jeannette, Julie Kelly, and Karen. With the possible exception of Karen, they all were great to talk to. Ewa's another great personality. As a non-pool playing spectator or as an occasional player checking out pool on TV, I think I would be just as bored as I would be now watching a golf tournament. There's very little entertainment value beyond my love of the game and enjoyment watching the best play the game. Where's the interaction? Where's the drama? Where's the comedy? We have more fun and interaction playing on my table at home in one afternoon than I've seen in 10s of hours watching pool on TV.

 

[AuntyDan]

Why is no one demanding the WPBA enforce a dress code that all the Pro women wear sexy outfits and lots of make-up on TV, which would surely also increase the audience? Because it is offensive and discrimatory. Forcing all male Pro players to also be gamblers and clowns in order to widen the audience for Pool is no better in my opinion.

I have no objection to the the concept of Pool as pure entertainment and that it could be financially successful with the right format and management. However I cannot accept that it is either the way to define the best players in the sport of Pool, or that it is the sole way forward for the overall improvement of the sport of Pool.

I also feel such a formet is deeply divisive, as only the players who are able to deal with the pressures and temptations of gambling, verbally colorful enough or physically attractive enough to entertain a Fox network TV audience and also able to play well whilst their opponent and the studio audience is free to shark them would be successful. This would eliminate a lot of great players who are unable or simply unwilling to play in such an environment.

 

[Jimmy M.]

This may or may not be considered woofing, but rumer has it that John Daly was in Phoenix about a week ago and was said to have brought 300k cash and offered to take on "all comers" at a local golf course...

Does he play pool?

 

[OldHasBeen]

AuntyDan - You just don't Get It!

You said - Forcing all male Pro players to also be gamblers and clowns in order to widen the audience for Pool is no better in my opinion.

No one ever said anything remotely like that. You’re hearing what you want to when you read.
What I have said is - let the players be themselves because it is what the general public wants and will watch.
If the game & players evolve away from that, so be it.
TY & GL

 

[Rude Dog]

Ahhh, what the hell.................

Who wants to play some 9 ball? Get your pansy asses up here and bet sumpin! Call me whatever ya want, just don't put your hands on me and we'll get along just fine.

 

[cscott67]

Woofers!!

Who wants to play some 9 ball? Get your pansy asses up here and bet sumpin! Call me whatever ya want, just don't put your hands on me and we'll get along just fine.

Say when!! ;o) Interesting thread, and woofing will always be around. What I find annoying everywhere I play is that there are too many locksmiths these days. Virtually no-one wants to match up evenly. A fair game is hard to find.

As for the phrase "Jew 'em down," it is just a phrase. Chill out a little bit. Happy holidays to you all, Scott

 

[B.J.the bandit]

Woofing Helps!!!

You said - Forcing all male Pro players to also be gamblers and clowns in order to widen the audience for Pool is no better in my opinion.

No one ever said anything remotely like that. You’re hearing what you want to when you read.
What I have said is - let the players be themselves because it is what the general public wants and will watch.
If the game & players evolve away from that, so be it.
TY & GL

MY,MY.MY. Guess none of you ever walked in A pool room that looked & felt like a Jr High dance? Yep, "NO"one dancing!! :NO: one betting "NO",one playing, everyone doin a lot of OOOO! THEN B. J. WALKS IN I'd make ya bet, One time I had everyone in C.Js betting on the dang gum-balls What color came out {WITH ODDS} Thats the art of WOFFING!! GET THE ACTION GOING!!

 

[AuntyDan]

I was responding mostly to JAM's argument that mum Pool is boring and unattractive. ("Pool needs a personality, not a bunch of pool player mimes.")

The logical alternative suggested by this argument is for the players to spice up their act on TV during tournaments to generate more interest (for those players not already at least Medium spicy), and for those tournaments to be run in a more lax environment that allows this. I don't agree personally, and feel that most players, given had a financially viable choice, would choose to "evolve away from that" as you put it.

If and when both types of tournaments are competing for TV audience ratings then JAM may be right, drama and comedy may win out over pure skill. As she says, I have yet to see the infamous "Skins" tournament yet.

Have a great non-denominational winter fesitval of lights of your choice!

 

[bruin70]

> I asked this question on the CCB too,but suspect I might,,,,, Am I wrong? Tommy D.

this is my negative view of the players who engage in this aspect of the game.....

if it's gambling and about money, then they will want the best they can get for themselves..

if it's about hustling....pool hustlers are lazy and not willing to try and "earn" their keep. gambling for them is making a payday without working.

and once you get a situation where everyone knows everyone else's game,,,then you'll never see a game, because no one is willing to give what the other wants.