Why is Pool no where close to what GOLF is????

[NateSchoepf]

Can someone please tell me why pool isn't bigger and better, or atleast close to that of golf?
Pool can be played anywhere at anytime inside, no weather delays, more people play pool than golf(I believe), its cheaper to learn how to play and to play.

I JUST DON"T GET IT??????????

 

[smokeandapancak]

Pool is a dirty little game full of con men , smoke, booze and overall dirtbags... played by poor / working class folks.... 0 (Typical preception)

Golf is massive game full of con men, smoke (but outside) ,beer and some dirtbags....pretty much the same as pool... BUT played by Rich/ Upper class folks...

 

[AZE]

Because pool is teh sux and you win like $8 for 1st in a big event.

 

[uwate]

AZE its 6:20 am...dont tell me your up at work already?

 

[Ltldebbie]

Check your facts

Can someone please tell me why pool isn't bigger and better, or atleast close to that of golf?
Pool can be played anywhere at anytime inside, no weather delays, more people play pool than golf(I believe), its cheaper to learn how to play and to play.

I JUST DON"T GET IT??????????

Nate,
Good question but,......I'm not sure that more people play pool than golf. I haven't looked at your profile so I don't know how old you are but I think I'm probably just a little older.

1) If there are more pool players than golfers they are just bangers or social pool players. Like "I think that girl/or guy is cute. I'll ask him to play.

2) Do you really think there are more pool halls in the U.S. than golf courses?
I mean Pool halls not bars.

In my town of 8,000 there are 5 golf courses within 10 miles and not one pool hall. I have to go at Least 15 miles to the west, 45 miles to the North, or 25 miles to the south before I can go to a pool hall. Within that same radius there are probably 40 golf courses (if I include the par 3's).

Golf is socially acceptabele place to do business. Do you know how many companies actually pay their management,to take customers to the golf course??

Golf has been televised since television began. Pool still has a socially acceptable stigma. Nobodies fault. Its just a mothers myth. There is even a line in an old musical There's Trouble in this town and it starts with a P and that's Pool

Sorry just what I have observed over the years.

 

[JAM]

Can someone please tell me why pool isn't bigger and better, or atleast close to that of golf?
Pool can be played anywhere at anytime inside, no weather delays, more people play pool than golf(I believe), its cheaper to learn how to play and to play.

I JUST DON"T GET IT??????????

I assume you are talking about pool in the United States. Right? Because pool in Philippines, as an example, is pretty big. In fact, Efren Reyes is the Tiger Woods of the Philippines for sure!

My opinion, the reason why pool is not popular in America, is that pool is associated with hustling, much more than golf in America is associated with hustling.

Most Americans have little or no respect for professional pool players. There are even some within the American pool culture who think of professional pool player as:

"bottom-feeders";
"scum of the earth";
"homeless bums if they have no girlfriends";
and/or my favorite, "ranked well below garbage collectors."

Some of these same persons in the American pool culture who demean professional pool players are the very ones sitting in the front row when there is a gambling match in progress. They have a love-hate relationship, it seems to me, with pool players. Gambling is dirty and vile to them. Yet many of them seem to flock to the DCC in Louisville each year to see gambling at its finest.

Gambling is a hard sell to mainstream America, as is hustling. Minnesota Fats and Willie Mosconi brought pool in the limelight with their back-and-forth banter they shared in their grudge matches. ESPN picked right up on it, but it soon faded in popularity. Pool never shined so bright as it did when these two guys were in their prime in America.

Pool did enjoy a small pick-me-up in popularity when a movie came out starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise hustling their way to a big tournament in Atlantic City, but it wasn't enough to keep pool thriving in the professional sports realm.

That said, pool is popular in America for social shooters, bar bangers, and league players. It is the best thing going for pool, in fact, in the States.

Professional pool is dead in the water. With rack riggers in 9-ball, no legitimate ranking system for American male pros, at least one that is adhered to, and low payouts for most tournaments, professional pool continues to have one tire in the mud in America.

I have been a pool enthusiast my entire adult life, and I am 54 years old today. The best times I ever had in pool was when I was a social shooter, bar banger, and league player. My opinion of professional pool, after seeing it up front and close, is not a good one. I had a much better time with pool when I did not follow the American tournament trail. Professional pool offers not much for an American professional player.

Which brings me to my usual retort. The existing lot of American professional players is diminishing. Like the great white American buffalo, they wander in a wilderness with not much to thrive on. In the words of one great American legend, "a little bone with not much meat on it." Soon these fine American thoroughbreds will venture overseas where the opportunities will become abundant. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[JCIN]

Pool is a dirty little game full of con men , smoke, booze and overall dirtbags... played by poor / working class folks.... 0 (Typical preception)

Golf is massive game full of con men, smoke (but outside) ,beer and some dirtbags....pretty much the same as pool... BUT played by Rich/ Upper class folks...

This post should be made a sticky so that every 2 weeks when this question comes up everyone can point to it.

 

[Blackjack]

Can someone please tell me why pool isn't bigger and better, or atleast close to that of golf?
Pool can be played anywhere at anytime inside, no weather delays, more people play pool than golf(I believe), its cheaper to learn how to play and to play.

I JUST DON"T GET IT??????????

First of all, we're not golf.

We're not tennis.

We're not NASCAR.

We're not poker.

We're pool.

Our game has a reputation with the mainstream public that has created certain stereotypes. Not all the stereotypes fit the people involved in our sport, some do.

Our main problem is that we continue to market our game as something that it isn't. Whenever we have generated outside support and outside industry sponsorship - we somehow don't deliver what the sponsors expected.

Our game exists within a bubble - a bubble that was constructed by those who seek power within the bubble of our little pool world. They keep our game in a small containable state to ensure that their position of power is not threatened. This bubble is steered by a few cliques that follow these rules of survival:

1) Practice Selective Inclusion
2) Generate Self Serving Business Deals and Self Serving Profit
3) Proceed With Contained Progression

Selective inclusion within the power structure of the billiard world bubble is at the core of the problem. For years I have believed that any idea that makes sense is immediately dismissed because those in power feel threatened by the results of too much progress. They are always looking to see what is in it for them, and their close nit group of associates that go along for the pleasure cruise (while others sit on the sidelines watching the insanity). They need to contain the progression of our sport so that they can keep it manageable - and to ensure that they maintain their control within the bubble.

These same people live by the motto that says - "As long as WE are making money - who cares if we have widespread marketability?"

They just make sure that they are taken care of, and the hell with everybody else. These same people will tell you that any attempt at unifying our sport (which has been the key to success in tennis, golf, bowling, etc) is ludicrous and will never work. They are happy captaining their own pirate ship.

Meanwhile, golf, tennis, MMA, poker - they have all found an avenue of widespread marketability for their product. They attract sponsorship for their events and their stars. This money comes into their sport and then they are able to build their assets around their tour. We have failed to do this because we refuse to burst that bubble I spoke of a few paragraphs ago.

Buick has nothing to do with golf, yet they sponsor Tiger Woods - they sponsor events - and they connect the sport with their product through Tiger's image.

Pool needs to find an avenue of widespread marketability - we need gather a group of people together that are not afraid to stand up and show the door to the current "Bubble Kings" that keep our sport where it is for their own profitability and amusement - we need to keep moving forward and develop our sport into something we can all be proud of.

The trouble we have now is that our sport is divided. We have regional tours, mens tours, womens tours, wheelchair tours, trick shots, this league, that league, the other league, it never ends. All these entities are running as fast as they can in 150 different directions. They step on each other, all in the name of "business". This is why we are getting nowhere.

I believe that if they all got together in the same room and realized what the game would be if they combined their efforts and resources, then perhaps we'd get somewhere. For now, they choose to use what little profit they are are making as an excuse not to do that. Welcome to the wonderful world of pool in 2008.

 

[AZE]

First of all, we're not golf.

We're not tennis.

We're not NASCAR.

We're not poker.

We're pool.

Our game has a reputation with the mainstream public that has created certain stereotypes. Not all the stereotypes fit the people involved in our sport, some do.

Our main problem is that we continue to market our game as something that it isn't. Whenever we have generated outside support and outside industry sponsorship - we somehow don't deliver what the sponsors expected.

Our game exists within a bubble - a bubble that was constructed by those who seek power within the bubble of our little pool world. They keep our game in a small containable state to ensure that their position of power is not threatened. This bubble is steered by a few cliques that follow these rules of survival:

1) Practice Selective Inclusion
2) Generate Self Serving Business Deals and Self Serving Profit
3) Proceed With Contained Progression

Selective inclusion within the power structure of the billiard world bubble is at the core of the problem. For years I have believed that any idea that makes sense is immediately dismissed because those in power feel threatened by the results of too much progress. They are always looking to see what is in it for them, and their close nit group of associates that go along for the pleasure cruise (while others sit on the sidelines watching the insanity). They need to contain the progression of our sport so that they can keep it manageable - and to ensure that they maintain their control within the bubble.

These same people live by the motto that says - "As long as WE are making money - who cares if we have widespread marketability?"

They just make sure that they are taken care of, and the hell with everybody else. These same people will tell you that any attempt at unifying our sport (which has been the key to success in tennis, golf, bowling, etc) is ludicrous and will never work. They are happy captaining their own pirate ship.

Meanwhile, golf, tennis, MMA, poker - they have all found an avenue of widespread marketability for their product. They attract sponsorship for their events and their stars. This money comes into their sport and then they are able to build their assets around their tour. We have failed to do this because we refuse to burst that bubble I spoke of a few paragraphs ago.

Buick has nothing to do with golf, yet they sponsor Tiger Woods - they sponsor events - and they connect the sport with their product through Tiger's image.

Pool needs to find an avenue of widespread marketability - we need gather a group of people together that are not afraid to stand up and show the door to the current "Bubble Kings" that keep our sport where it is for their own profitability and amusement - we need to keep moving forward and develop our sport into something we can all be proud of.

The trouble we have now is that our sport is divided. We have regional tours, mens tours, womens tours, wheelchair tours, trick shots, this league, that league, the other league, it never ends. All these entities are running as fast as they can in 150 different directions. They step on each other, all in the name of "business". This is why we are getting nowhere.

I believe that if they all got together in the same room and realized what the game would be if they combined their efforts and resources, then perhaps we'd get somewhere. For now, they choose to use what little profit they are are making as an excuse not to do that. Welcome to the wonderful world of pool in 2008.

vvvvvvvery nice post... rep to you sir (for whatever thats worth).

 

[rogerb]

Because the PGA is all powerfull !!

 

[JAM]

As someone who is fond of pool, I do hope to see it rise in popularity in America.

I just don't ever see it happening, the way the current climate is. Somebody definitely moved the cheese ball overseas. Six figures for Ronnie in snooker from a watch sponsor in China.

American pro pool players are lucky if they have a sponsor which funds money for tournament expenditures. It is very rare. The majority of American players sponsor themselves to get to events. Some in recent times have stooped to the level of brown-nosing those with deep pockets and low egos, as opposed to marketing themselves a la Jeanette Lee.

God bless professional pool players around the world.

JAM

 

[Purdman]

My .02

The environment and the people! I went out last night and played in the local tourney. Music was to loud, most people were drinking, and the place was full of smoke. The tables were old and you couldn't rack the balls tight with super glue. My clothes stink and I didn't get home until after 12 AM. I have to get up and get ready to earn a living at 6 AM. Needless to say, I won't be playing in that tournament again. Not to mention the fact that the guy running the tournament conned me out of $700 and doesn't give a damn. I went to a decent pool hall (a new one) that is set up right. Problem is the tab for 3 hours with my wife was over $90 with tip and I came home smelling like a cigarette and my ears were numb from the loud head banging music. I am sorry to say, the head bangers are the ones they cater to. That's just the way it is. The environment is nothing like golf, baseball, or any other high paying sport.
JMHO and experience, Purdman

 

[JCIN]

First of all, we're not golf.

We're not tennis.

We're not NASCAR.

We're not poker.

We're pool.

Our game has a reputation with the mainstream public that has created certain stereotypes. Not all the stereotypes fit the people involved in our sport, some do.

Our main problem is that we continue to market our game as something that it isn't. Whenever we have generated outside support and outside industry sponsorship - we somehow don't deliver what the sponsors expected.

Our game exists within a bubble - a bubble that was constructed by those who seek power within the bubble of our little pool world. They keep our game in a small containable state to ensure that their position of power is not threatened. This bubble is steered by a few cliques that follow these rules of survival:

1) Practice Selective Inclusion
2) Generate Self Serving Business Deals and Self Serving Profit
3) Proceed With Contained Progression

Selective inclusion within the power structure of the billiard world bubble is at the core of the problem. For years I have believed that any idea that makes sense is immediately dismissed because those in power feel threatened by the results of too much progress. They are always looking to see what is in it for them, and their close nit group of associates that go along for the pleasure cruise (while others sit on the sidelines watching the insanity). They need to contain the progression of our sport so that they can keep it manageable - and to ensure that they maintain their control within the bubble.

These same people live by the motto that says - "As long as WE are making money - who cares if we have widespread marketability?"

They just make sure that they are taken care of, and the hell with everybody else. These same people will tell you that any attempt at unifying our sport (which has been the key to success in tennis, golf, bowling, etc) is ludicrous and will never work. They are happy captaining their own pirate ship.

Meanwhile, golf, tennis, MMA, poker - they have all found an avenue of widespread marketability for their product. They attract sponsorship for their events and their stars. This money comes into their sport and then they are able to build their assets around their tour. We have failed to do this because we refuse to burst that bubble I spoke of a few paragraphs ago.

Buick has nothing to do with golf, yet they sponsor Tiger Woods - they sponsor events - and they connect the sport with their product through Tiger's image.

Pool needs to find an avenue of widespread marketability - we need gather a group of people together that are not afraid to stand up and show the door to the current "Bubble Kings" that keep our sport where it is for their own profitability and amusement - we need to keep moving forward and develop our sport into something we can all be proud of.

The trouble we have now is that our sport is divided. We have regional tours, mens tours, womens tours, wheelchair tours, trick shots, this league, that league, the other league, it never ends. All these entities are running as fast as they can in 150 different directions. They step on each other, all in the name of "business". This is why we are getting nowhere.

I believe that if they all got together in the same room and realized what the game would be if they combined their efforts and resources, then perhaps we'd get somewhere. For now, they choose to use what little profit they are are making as an excuse not to do that. Welcome to the wonderful world of pool in 2008.

Ok it is early, nothing else going on....I'll bite.

I agree with some of what you say. My question is what could realisticly be done to "burst the bubble"? To change the status quo? Forget getting everyone in that room, you know it ain't happening. My short experience on "the inside" of the industry has shown me that EVERYONE is scrambling to just survive and try to grow. There is no mythical force keeping things down...it is just people doing what they can to pursue what they deem to be the best course of action for their business.

Mens pro pool has not had a solid organization that has lasted for more than a few years in my lifetime. I see it as a chicken or the egg thing. You cant have a strong organization unless there is enough money involved to make the players willingly jump on board and toe the party line. The IPT proved that if the money is there (in that case the appearance of it) everyone will get on board. The catch 22 is ....in most cases you cant get a major corporate sponsor (outside pool) to even give pool a second glance because even if they were interested who are they going to talk too? Who can guarantee the top 20 players at every event 6 months in advance? No one. The UPA you say? A valiant effort but what does the schedule look like this year? Chicken or the egg and right now we have neither.

I agree that there is WAY to much "me first, my way or the highway" in the industry but.....it is that way because pool is basically a cottage industry that is run by people who have started and built their own organizations/companies/business. Of course someone who is all in on something and has devoted their life to something is going to protect their interests.

Now that the gloom and doom is over with, here is why I have faith in the industry and the players. The great majority of people I have met or worked directly with have been outstanding. Honest upstanding professional people who love the game. There are of course exceptions but by far the good outnumbers the bad. There is a generation of players coming up that "get it". They know exactly what they are getting into and what it will take to survive. They are excited about the game and the future and are willing to work to help the game grow. This is not to downplay the efforts of the players who have been in the trenches for years. After some of the beatings they have taken over the last 15 years it is easy to understand why some are upset with the game. They have good reason.

I am a firm believer that the foundation must be strong and the base secure before it is time to go after Joe Blow and Suzie Homemaker. In all honesty we don't even need them. All we need is the people who already play the game every week.

As for answers... I don't really have any I am confident in except for this:

Do something.

Justin Collett-Industry n00b

 

[PROG8R]

I love golf. Rather play it than I would pool. Golf is cheaper than pool. I can get a brand new set of the latest PINGS custom fit to me for right around $700. (8 clubs) for less than any Sugar tree single cue. If I compare to another cue, Southwest, Mcworter, searing, ... for example Then I can get the entire set of the latest clubs. As far as green fees, They average $35-$55 (in the winter) dollars and that is for 4-6 hours of play depending on course and time of day. Last time I played pool in Orlando it was $10 and hour (that at 4-5 hours and I have spent the same amount of $$$ if not more. I am almost a lock to get paid every time I match up on the local courses around here (Yeah I do lose sometimes, but I seem to average out almost even money for the most part). There isnt any 2nd hand smoke for me on the course, I get a tan (even if its funny looking; I get really dark in the summers except for my one white hand and my feet from the ankles down). The courses are different so they all possess their own unique challenges. I have only every gotten into one fight on a golf course. I wont even begin to tell you about pool halls. When it comes to winning money there isnt even a comparison for me. I can make as much or more in one day as the entire bottom 2/3 of the payouts at just about any pro pool tournament that takes them 3 days of play for hours and hours a day.

 

[stikapos]

Its very simple. In golf, you call penalties on yourself. In pool, you kevetch your opponent into accepting your penalties. In golf, you try to lower your handicap. In pool, you sandbag to make it higher (actually lower). Those who play golf, "respect the game". Those in pool couldn't give too craps about it as long as it makes them a dollar and are long gone after than dollar is gone. Real simple.

tim

 

[JAM]

The environment and the people! I went out last night and played in the local tourney. Music was to loud, most people were drinking, and the place was full of smoke. The tables were old and you couldn't rack the balls tight with super glue. My clothes stink and I didn't get home until after 12 AM. I have to get up and get ready to earn a living at 6 AM. Needless to say, I won't be playing in that tournament again. Not to mention the fact that the guy running the tournament conned me out of $700 and doesn't give a damn. I went to a decent pool hall (a new one) that is set up right. Problem is the tab for 3 hours with my wife was over $90 with tip and I came home smelling like a cigarette and my ears were numb from the loud head banging music. I am sorry to say, the head bangers are the ones they cater to. That's just the way it is. The environment is nothing like golf, baseball, or any other high paying sport.
JMHO and experience, Purdman

That is the trend in American pool, Purdie. The pool rooms from yesteryear are a rare commodity. Most places today that have pool tables are sports bars with loud music. Gone are the days where you can nestle up in a railside seat and watch two great warriors battle it out to the finish for a dime or two, at least not in our neck of the woods, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, for you, my friend, you live in the tobacco country. Virginia will most likely be the last State to ban smoking in public places.

So sorry you had a bad time last night. Was that the new room in Winchester?

JAM

 

[JCIN]

Its very simple. In golf, you call penalties on yourself. In pool, you kevetch your opponent into accepting your penalties. In golf, you try to lower your handicap. In pool, you sandbag to make it higher (actually lower). Those who play golf, "respect the game". Those in pool couldn't give too craps about it as long as it makes them a dollar and are long gone after than dollar is gone. Real simple.

tim

Yeah. There is never any hustling or stalling in golf.

As far as your statements about everyone only being in the game for money, that is quite possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. 90% of the pool world could make more working at Wal Mart than they net from pool. If it was only about money there would be NO pro pool.

 

[JAM]

...If it was only about money there would be NO pro pool.

There has never been a more profound statement on this forum that the above-referenced. It is a shame that more people are not aware of this.

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

There has never been a more profound statement on this forum that the above-referenced. It is a shame that more people are not aware of this.

JAM

Agreed.
.
.
.
.
.

 

[BornAgain]

A public apology to Blackjack and Sweet Marissa

First of all, we're not golf.

We're not tennis.

We're not NASCAR.

We're not poker.

We're pool.

Our game has a reputation with the mainstream public that has created certain stereotypes. Not all the stereotypes fit the people involved in our sport, some do.

Our main problem is that we continue to market our game as something that it isn't. Whenever we have generated outside support and outside industry sponsorship - we somehow don't deliver what the sponsors expected.

Our game exists within a bubble - a bubble that was constructed by those who seek power within the bubble of our little pool world. They keep our game in a small containable state to ensure that their position of power is not threatened. This bubble is steered by a few cliques that follow these rules of survival:

1) Practice Selective Inclusion
2) Generate Self Serving Business Deals and Self Serving Profit
3) Proceed With Contained Progression

Selective inclusion within the power structure of the billiard world bubble is at the core of the problem. For years I have believed that any idea that makes sense is immediately dismissed because those in power feel threatened by the results of too much progress. They are always looking to see what is in it for them, and their close nit group of associates that go along for the pleasure cruise (while others sit on the sidelines watching the insanity). They need to contain the progression of our sport so that they can keep it manageable - and to ensure that they maintain their control within the bubble.

These same people live by the motto that says - "As long as WE are making money - who cares if we have widespread marketability?"

They just make sure that they are taken care of, and the hell with everybody else. These same people will tell you that any attempt at unifying our sport (which has been the key to success in tennis, golf, bowling, etc) is ludicrous and will never work. They are happy captaining their own pirate ship.

Meanwhile, golf, tennis, MMA, poker - they have all found an avenue of widespread marketability for their product. They attract sponsorship for their events and their stars. This money comes into their sport and then they are able to build their assets around their tour. We have failed to do this because we refuse to burst that bubble I spoke of a few paragraphs ago.

Buick has nothing to do with golf, yet they sponsor Tiger Woods - they sponsor events - and they connect the sport with their product through Tiger's image.

Pool needs to find an avenue of widespread marketability - we need gather a group of people together that are not afraid to stand up and show the door to the current "Bubble Kings" that keep our sport where it is for their own profitability and amusement - we need to keep moving forward and develop our sport into something we can all be proud of.

The trouble we have now is that our sport is divided. We have regional tours, mens tours, womens tours, wheelchair tours, trick shots, this league, that league, the other league, it never ends. All these entities are running as fast as they can in 150 different directions. They step on each other, all in the name of "business". This is why we are getting nowhere.

I believe that if they all got together in the same room and realized what the game would be if they combined their efforts and resources, then perhaps we'd get somewhere. For now, they choose to use what little profit they are are making as an excuse not to do that. Welcome to the wonderful world of pool in 2008.

At this time I would like to make a public apology to Blackjack and Sweet Marissa. I just want to apologize for the comments I have made to both of you. I also want to apologize for being so judgmental against both of you. I wanted to do this so everyone could read it. So if you could find it in yourselves to forgive me, thank you. I'm sorry for all of the grief I have caused you both, And it won't happen again!