Why is sharking considered such bad form on this forum?

[ShootingArts]

and far more understandable coming from someone that looked like a farmer

Being originally from Alabama, my whole family used to pick cotton. My mom when she was eight years old would have to pick one hundred pounds of cotton after school every day. Most days, my papal would help her get her 100 pnds but that didn't mean that she wasn't a cotton picker.

The derogatory term "dirty cotton picker" was a class based slur rather than a racist slur.

Jaden

It was a slur, it may have even been a racial slur, none of us have any way of knowing. "Racial slur" has became a buzz word now though. Every week, almost daily I hear about a "racial slur" on the news or in print when something was simply a slur at most. It is in my mind ridiculous that "racial" has to be added to slur almost every time now to crank up the hype.

Coonass probably comes from coonais or a derivative. One thing for certain, it didn't refer to race. Some wheel from California visited New Orleans and when he got back home he said something along the lines of, "Wow, those coonass chef's can sure cook!" He was fired for using a racial slur. I ragged all of my Cajun coworkers for days about being a different race from the rest of the world.

In my youth "cotton picker" referred to any farm worker or even worse the people that mostly loafed all year and only worked at harvest. It wasn't complimentary but there was no race attached to it. Some of my friends and family still farm and I occasionally hear "cotton picker" or "cotton picking" to refer to a trifling person or a trifling thing, no race attached. Having hand picked a little cotton just to see what it was like, I can't imagine a lazy person picking cotton!

Hu

 

[Zagiflyer]

--------------Step right up, son, let's play some 9-ball!

The word sharking simply means distracting the player who is at the table.The rules of the game do not allow any maneuvers that distract the player at the table.
Pool game REQUIRES FINE MOTOR SKILLS as opposed to GROSS MOTOR SKILLS like in other sports like tennis,baseball,football etc.It is widely believed that distractions NEGATIVLY impact any task that reqires the usage of FINE MOTOR SKILLS.Hence the rules are made to make sharking illegal.

hustling is a different topic.I do not agree with our friend and teacher SJM`s analogy of comparing hustling with banking and investment brokers.simply put, hustling is a form ARTof playing the game by not showing all your skills when they were not necessary to beat an opponent.skills will be displayed only as needed.Infact husting is a sign of humility/humbleness /modesty as opposed to showing off.
Hustling is NOT fraud when it is used on a suspecting fellow pool player.Hustling MAY or MAY NOT be considered fraud if it is used against a unsuspecting grand mother.Wasn`t the grand mother greedy ? did she not want to rob the guy`s money? Cheers[/QUOTE]



I don't agree with you, hustling is just another form of deception and dishonesty, it sure as hell isn't an "art form" unless you are a con artist. You are attempting to rationalize bad behavior by saying it's a sign of humility/modesty and humbleness to play for money against a known inferior player and "adjust" your game up and down as necessary to keep the "sucker" hooked knowing that you can ratchet your game up at will to insure a win when you figure you've gotten all the money you can out of your opponent. I like the bit about "suspecting fellow pool players." You have no way of knowing who would suspect you're running a scam and who wouldn't; the whole point of hustling is to find unsuspecting players to dupe. People who do this are con men plain and simple and it hurts the game. When people come into a pool hall and have this happen to them they may never return to that establishment (or the game) once they figure out what happened; nobody likes to get ripped off.

Using your logic pretty much any scam would be OK as long as the "mark" voluntarily participates. I don't know whether you actually practice your "art" on other players but if you do I hope that the rooms you play in have the good sense to ban you in order to protect their other customers.

 

[Snapshot9]

Lol

Anyone that has played 10 years, especially for money, and says they have never sharked an opponent is a liar, pure and simple.

Some players are weak emotionally, a serious player hones in on this almost immediately. True friends will jokingly try to shark each other during frendly games (< $20 a game). One little comment can cause some players to go to hell in a hand basket. We just call them, 'weak sisters'.

BTW, I was also a catcher growing up, and chatter to the batter was part of the game, in fact, almost every sport I played taking your opponent 'off their game' was just part of the game.

How many of you have never shot multiple safeties in a row, because your opponent is a good open shooter, but really weak at kicking out of a safety, and helps you gain an advantage?

If you can not withstand a little sharking, you probably won't be any good to begin with. We don't live in a perfect world, and you should not expect that in Pool.

 

[9BallPaul]

Anyone that has played 10 years, especially for money, and says they have never sharked an opponent is a liar, pure and simple.

Some players are weak emotionally, a serious player hones in on this almost immediately. True friends will jokingly try to shark each other during frendly games (< $20 a game). One little comment can cause some players to go to hell in a hand basket. We just call them, 'weak sisters'.

BTW, I was also a catcher growing up, and chatter to the batter was part of the game, in fact, almost every sport I played taking your opponent 'off their game' was just part of the game.

How many of you have never shot multiple safeties in a row, because your opponent is a good open shooter, but really weak at kicking out of a safety, and helps you gain an advantage?

If you can not withstand a little sharking, you probably won't be any good to begin with. We don't live in a perfect world, and you should not expect that in Pool.

Thank you, Snapshot, for saying what I'm saying. But it looks like we're in a minority.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

No I don't. I believe someone said that Cliff said it was because of the long amounts of time he has spent at the table.

I wish you would have stayed around for a while longer at DCC. It would have been nice to say more than, "Yes, I am JoeyA; it's nice to meet you". lol

I wish so too. I got to spend a few minutes with Doc (what a great guy), but missed my chance to talk more with you - had to leave unexpectedly the day after I arrived. If I had stayed any longer you might have got me on a table before my one pocket lessons are complete.

Some day, over the rainbow...

pj
chgo

 

[Zagiflyer]

Anyone that has played 10 years, especially for money, and says they have never sharked an opponent is a liar, pure and simple.

Some players are weak emotionally, a serious player hones in on this almost immediately. True friends will jokingly try to shark each other during frendly games (< $20 a game). One little comment can cause some players to go to hell in a hand basket. We just call them, 'weak sisters'.

BTW, I was also a catcher growing up, and chatter to the batter was part of the game, in fact, almost every sport I played taking your opponent 'off their game' was just part of the game.

How many of you have never shot multiple safeties in a row, because your opponent is a good open shooter, but really weak at kicking out of a safety, and helps you gain an advantage?

If you can not withstand a little sharking, you probably won't be any good to begin with. We don't live in a perfect world, and you should not expect that in Pool.

I certainly wouldn't consider defensive safety play on the table sharking, that's part of the game. You always have the option of making a defensive shot if you feel that's the best option given the circumstances and your opponent has the same option on every shot. I consider sharking either verbal taunts to make your opponent angry or distracted and physical capers like dropping cues or other items intentionally right before a shot, intentional, excessive movement in your opponents line of sight, etc. I also think that players need to accept the fact that there is going to be some noise and movement in a pool hall and many things that appear to be sharking by overly sensitive players are totally unintentional.

Intentional sharking to try to interrupt your opponents concentration at critical times is sleazy.

 

[Snapshot9]

You're welcome 9ballPaul

Some of these Posters on here are acting a little self righteous, aren't they?
That's like saying they have never committed a sin, and we all know the answer to that one. In the upper ranks of almost every sport, you have to be ready for anything, and still perform. Pool is no different.

I remember when playing a safety was considered cheating.

My personal analogy as to the shift in the general public's eye is because
when I grew up, everything was 'Let the buyer beware'. Today's world has shifted to more of a let 'The seller be responsible'. This general premise has also effected a shift in attitudes within the Pool world. And back in the old days, hustlers got their thumbs broken.

Hustling and sharking go hand in hand, and just because you stole something for a good reason, still makes you a thief.

 

[maha]

gambling, you hustle to get the best game you can and try to win it with some sharking but not outright cheating or bad manners. a little is part of the gamble hustle thing.

playing in tournys or leagues there is no place for it as its a sportsmanship thing there.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Hustling and intentional Sharking are both well defined Characteristics of Gamblers.

When you step into an arena with a gambler, you'd better be prepared for the tactics or you will end up handing over the money after the contest. Your choice, you accept the bet thinking you have a chance to win. Your choice letting the 'shark moves' affect your execution. Your choice to continue.

In tournament play, you have a referee or Tournament Director enforcing rules to provide Fair Play for all participants. Gamblers don't like to be told what game to play, where and when and for what amount and without an edge to win. But that rarely stops them from showing their characteristics.

 

[chin0]

some people would argue that racism is dead now that obama is president. unfortunately i run into situations like this all the time so i know it just isn't true.

you did the right thing leaving early for sure. guys like that are walking around looking for trouble.

I know they weren't refering to me when they said cotton picker, they weren't talking to me in anyway, but they were at the table next to me playing. With the shinning moon hanging out of his pants and them getting in my way when I shoot, and trippin and kickin over my rear stance foot gets annoying. So I just decided, well I've been shooting for about 2 hours, guess I can just pack my stuff up and come back later without causing any trouble.

A guy that looks like a farmer says something about cotton pickers and it is a racial slur? Which race does it refer to? My white father and his entire family hand picked cotton in the Mississippi delta country. I have seen black people picking cotton when I was a child, and lastly I have seen Mexicans picking cotton. Asians were picking vegetables when I rode through the agricultural section of California but I didn't see any cotton for them to pick. Maybe they are the privileged characters.

What you quoted didn't have any indication of race so I am a little confused.

Hu

Hu, I know where you are coming from, and you are trying to find a rational way of looking at what he says as just being something that has no intentions of being racial. Those slurs are not aimmed towards me, but it is the fact that they said it. If you have two guys in their 60s, look like some dirty rat's a$$ scumbag farmers and they run off at the mouth when they miss, saying "God damn cotton pickers!" and across the room were a bunch of middle aged black guys that was pretty loud. When the older white guys miss, they look over across the room at the loud black guys and said whatever they said, loud enough for me to hear but not loud enough for the black guys to hear across the room. I think it is pretty racial based, I know racism when I hear it, see it. They are simply calling them the "N" word without actually saying it. I'm chinese and have lived in Kansas City for over 10 years and have pretty much grew up in America, I know what racism is, and what little things like that said means. I'm not ignorant to the fact that racism will always excist no matter what. I felt uncomfortable, so I leave, no harm done. The remarks he made was not really the reason I left, it is the a$$ hangin out and them getting in my way that made me leave more than anything else.

Thanks for your input though Hu, always good to have different point of views of the situation at hand, but to me this was just such a clear cut case that no matter what angle you look at, it is still a racial slur. I hope that like you guys said, it is just a slur that farmers use that has no racial thing attached to it, but from my seeing it seemed racist. Maybe I'm just a bit sensative when it come to things like that, but I did learn a new term, I didn't know cotton picker was used by southerners and farmers as a pretty non racial slur. Hope this clear things up a bit for everyone. Maybe it was just a misconception I have, but in no means do I like to tag along racial things to everything that happens. That is not how I am, but I just tell it like I see it you know.

Happy shooting!

Chino

 

[Gerry]

I love it when guys try to bring out the weak azz sharks. It just tells me they are in over their head and scared of the game they got into. If you have to resort to putting moves on people then...you got in over your head...you have no spine....or you are just a lowlife with no morals.

I DONT shark.....I have played many people on this board and no one will call me a bad sport or shark.

How can ANYONE try to justify sharking as "gamesmanship" or part of the game?....its not, and if you are O.K. with sharking.....then you are the guy everyone talks bad about and doesnt want to play at the pool room.

G.

 

[demonrho]

Thank you, Snapshot, for saying what I'm saying. But it looks like we're in a minority.

"Gamesmanship" has always been a part of pool, snooker, golf, etc. See Peter Potter's famous little treatise: "The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating)."

Here's an example from Potter:
Distracting your opponent by complaining about other people who might be (but weren't) distracting your opponent. Potter, who always insisted that the good gamesman must give the appearance of being a good sportsman, recommended this approach. For example, if an opponent is about to take a shot at billiards, it is bad gamesmanship to fidget and whistle but good gamesmanship to distract him by loudly requesting silence from spectators.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

Play out of a bar that plays karaoke every night of the week and you will learn to tune out everything but the table. People should just not attempt Mariah Carey songs unless your name is Mariah Carey...

When I play league some of my teammates pop off wise cracks in between my games directed at my opponent or his teammates and I tell my own teammates to shut up. If I'm gonna win its cause I was better this night than my opponent and not because they were swayed out of concentration. Personally I sit off to the side in my chair/stool and wait to shoot. If I am in their eyeline I move out of it. I don't nervous bob my leg, pop my gum, sway my cue, speak loudly to my teammates so they guy can hear about how I missed that shot or how lucky he got. But thats me.

 

[DeadPoked]

It was a slur, it may have even been a racial slur, none of us have any way of knowing. "Racial slur" has became a buzz word now though. Every week, almost daily I hear about a "racial slur" on the news or in print when something was simply a slur at most. It is in my mind ridiculous that "racial" has to be added to slur almost every time now to crank up the hype.

Coonass probably comes from coonais or a derivative. One thing for certain, it didn't refer to race. Some wheel from California visited New Orleans and when he got back home he said something along the lines of, "Wow, those coonass chef's can sure cook!" He was fired for using a racial slur. I ragged all of my Cajun coworkers for days about being a different race from the rest of the world.

In my youth "cotton picker" referred to any farm worker or even worse the people that mostly loafed all year and only worked at harvest. It wasn't complimentary but there was no race attached to it. Some of my friends and family still farm and I occasionally hear "cotton picker" or "cotton picking" to refer to a trifling person or a trifling thing, no race attached. Having hand picked a little cotton just to see what it was like, I can't imagine a lazy person picking cotton!

Hu

Your comments about this matter seem very similar to Lou Dobbs in this piece. Be sure to catch the end...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y0W19-N3Ik

 

[chin0]

Well this happened prior to when the two elderly gentlemen walked in the pool room last night. My older brother just got started in shooting pool, and he wants me to shoot with him. He asks me to teach him the basic etiquette, stance, grip, bridges and etc. All of a sudden, he sat on the table to take a shot, and I told him wait a minute, don't ever sit on the table, and he misses the shot, and he feels that me telling him while he is taking a shot is wrong and made him miss, so I said ok, set up the shot again and take it, "without sitting" on the table. He didn't make the shot, so I told him, take another shot, it really didn't matter because he was my brother you know. I don't really care when shooting with my brother about points and etc. He wanted me to teach him the basics that I know, I will, and if he felt that I sharked him, keep shooting. It is all out of good fun shooting with family and friends when money is not on the table. My brother is getting a lot better though.

 

[JoeyA]

I wish so too. I got to spend a few minutes with Doc (what a great guy), but missed my chance to talk more with you - had to leave unexpectedly the day after I arrived. If I had stayed any longer you might have got me on a table before my one pocket lessons are complete.

Some day, over the rainbow...

pj
chgo

If you're hangin around, enjoying the company of "Gulfport Doc" I think I'll have to move you to B List.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Harry Lee

I know they weren't refering to me when they said cotton picker, they weren't talking to me in anyway, but they were at the table next to me playing. With the shinning moon hanging out of his pants and them getting in my way when I shoot, and trippin and kickin over my rear stance foot gets annoying. So I just decided, well I've been shooting for about 2 hours, guess I can just pack my stuff up and come back later without causing any trouble.



Hu, I know where you are coming from, and you are trying to find a rational way of looking at what he says as just being something that has no intentions of being racial. Those slurs are not aimmed towards me, but it is the fact that they said it. If you have two guys in their 60s, look like some dirty rat's a$$ scumbag farmers and they run off at the mouth when they miss, saying "God damn cotton pickers!" and across the room were a bunch of middle aged black guys that was pretty loud. When the older white guys miss, they look over across the room at the loud black guys and said whatever they said, loud enough for me to hear but not loud enough for the black guys to hear across the room. I think it is pretty racial based, I know racism when I hear it, see it. They are simply calling them the "N" word without actually saying it. I'm chinese and have lived in Kansas City for over 10 years and have pretty much grew up in America, I know what racism is, and what little things like that said means. I'm not ignorant to the fact that racism will always excist no matter what. I felt uncomfortable, so I leave, no harm done. The remarks he made was not really the reason I left, it is the a$$ hangin out and them getting in my way that made me leave more than anything else.

Thanks for your input though Hu, always good to have different point of views of the situation at hand, but to me this was just such a clear cut case that no matter what angle you look at, it is still a racial slur. I hope that like you guys said, it is just a slur that farmers use that has no racial thing attached to it, but from my seeing it seemed racist. Maybe I'm just a bit sensative when it come to things like that, but I did learn a new term, I didn't know cotton picker was used by southerners and farmers as a pretty non racial slur. Hope this clear things up a bit for everyone. Maybe it was just a misconception I have, but in no means do I like to tag along racial things to everything that happens. That is not how I am, but I just tell it like I see it you know.

Happy shooting!

Chino

Jefferson Parish (the suburbs of New Orleans where I live) had a Chinese sheriff for many, many years. It seemed like forever. It was probably over 20 years. He got reelected time after time. No one stood a chance against Harry Lee. He was a sheriff of the people and he took no s**t from anyone of any race. Crime was his enemy and he protected his people from the criminals. He was tough as nails against all law breakers. We loved him dearly and he is sorely missed. I think resentment of another race is sometimes simply a resentment of a particular race because of a particular person's poor representation of that race. It isn't justified but sometimes it is understandable. Every race has their bad apple or two.

JoeyA ( I wasn't a cotton-picker but my wife was)

 

[smashmouth]

Sharking happens

The best pool player I've ever seen (Earl) and best snooker player I've ever seen (Ronnie) are guilty as sin

 

[catpool9]

Sharking n Hustling

OK I see how ya'll are!

If I knock over the waitress' Tip Jar n Break It, then run a Few Rack's, it's alright!.......:thumbup:

no shark no hustle.........

David Harcrow:smile:

 

[nor_daens]

I picked so much cotton as a youngster, I will not even take asprin today.