Why is that guy better than me???

It's not just in pool where some people excel a very great deal over the rest.

I imagine there were many painters that put as much time and effort into their painting in Rembrandt's day...and as many people (probably more) put as much energy into their music as Mozart...but could never produce such work in a million years.

History is full of people that were so far above their contemporaries that there really is no expanation why they were so extraordinary.

Call it what you want...but there is something very special in some people that really can't be explained...at least not scientifically.

Mike
 
akaTrigger said:
I think it comes down to fundamentals, exeprience, and some talent.
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It seems to me that those things certainly come into play.

Have you ever heard someone say, " He's the best $2 player I have ever seen". Bet $10 and he falls apart.

What happens?

Some might say that maybe they can't afford the game at $10. But I've see it happen to people that have plenty of cash....or they play like Efren for $100, bet $500 and he they become Wally Ballbanger......or they play great for 1,000, bet $5,000 and they fall apart.

How do you get to where you play the same, no matter what?

Is it even possible? Seems to be for some people.

Ray
 
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Ray,

I joked around a bit on Post 20 and have been giving this much thought. I might ramble on a bit and apologize in advance for that.

How I see pressure affecting performance:

When you make an appraisal of being under pressure, it affects your physiology -- your muscles tense up and your heart rate increases. Not surprisingly, it becomes more difficult to execute perfect technique.

So-called "choking" occurs when the appraisal of being under pressure leads to a performance error. This, in turn, may lead to more problematic appraisals, thereby creating a negative spiral. Thus, when a "player" misses an easy shot, their perception that he/she is not up to the task, may well be reinforced -- possibly/more then likely leading to more mistakes.

The impact of pressure on focus:

When you are lining up a "cheese shot" it is not easy to maintain your focus. Increasing pressure leads to a narrowing and internalising of one's focus - until one is ultimately (internally) aware of the pressure and not paying enough attention to the task at hand. This IMHO explains why, under severe pressure, many people who take part in this sport struggle to do things they would find easy under normal conditions.

The impact of subconscious beliefs:

Success under pressure also depends on the subconscious beliefs "players" hold about themselves. We tend to replicate in (external) reality what is stored in our subconscious (muscle memory). So if a "player" knows he/she is good but believes they may not be quite good enough to make a certain shot/actually win, there is a good chance they will sub-consciously sabotage their efforts at the end to bring their external reality back in line with internal beliefs.

We've all seen someone that was up 6 to 1 in a race to seven have a dramatic collapse and end up losing 7 to 6. This may well be an instance of just this happening.

The importance of mental toughness:

One of the skills that makes someone like Efren Reyes so much better at handling pressure than most other players, is his immense mental toughness -- the ability to keep the internal environment constant, regardless of what's happening in the external environment. If someone is serious about "their game", they must develop the mental toughness to go out and do the same behaviours/actions/techniques, regardless of how confident or motivated they may or may not feel on that day. This kind of mental toughness plays an important role in helping to constantly deliver high quality performances over an extended period of time (long races!).

Mental toughness - something you can work on:

Even though some "players" seem to be born with an ice cold nerve under pressure, that doesn't mean it is not something you can work on. Mental toughness is a skill, and therefore, something you can change and improve. Basic mental skills involve becoming aware of one's ideal internal state, and then developing techniques for creating, monitoring and maintaining this state during important performances. Help of a sports psychologist can be invaluable here -- whether someone would want to take it that far would depend on how serious they were about improving in this area. It won't be cheap; however, what good are those le$$on$ from Stan Shuffett, custom cues, etc. if your mental game fails when needed the most!

Preparing for the pressure situation

One technique "players" can use to prepare for pressure situations is visualising or imagining a pressure situation -- much in the way when you visualize a shot/runout. It may for example be useful to imagine the experience of being Frosty on his last shot to beat Efren in one pocket. Bring back those childhood scenarios when practicing by simulating the upcoming pressure situations as part of your routine (the physical and mental then become part of the muscle memory!). In this way, once the "player" is in the real pressure situation, he/she may feel more confident and at ease and be capable of performing to his/her maximum potential.

Well, I may have opened myself up here from some ridicule and I will more then likely wish I had added something else or explained things differently -- but, for what it's worth I now hit "Submit Reply".
 
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Great Post!!!

cmbwsu said:
Ray,

I joked around a bit on Post 20 and have been giving this much thought. I might ramble on a bit and apologize in advance for that.

How I see pressure affecting performance:

When you make an appraisal of being under pressure, it affects your physiology -- your muscles tense up and your heart rate increases. Not surprisingly, it becomes more difficult to execute perfect technique.

So-called "choking" occurs when the appraisal of being under pressure leads to a performance error. This, in turn, may lead to more problematic appraisals, thereby creating a negative spiral. Thus, when a "player" misses an easy shot, their perception that he/she is not up to the task, may well be reinforced -- possibly/more then likely leading to more mistakes.

The impact of pressure on focus:

When you are lining up a "cheese shot" it is not easy to maintain your focus. Increasing pressure leads to a narrowing and internalising of one's focus - until one is ultimately (internally) aware of the pressure and not paying enough attention to the task at hand. This IMHO explains why, under severe pressure, many people who take part in this sport struggle to do things they would find easy under normal conditions.

The impact of subconscious beliefs:

Success under pressure also depends on the subconscious beliefs "players" hold about themselves. We tend to replicate in (external) reality what is stored in our subconscious (muscle memory). So if a "player" knows he/she is good but believes they may not be quite good enough to make a certain shot/actually win, there is a good chance they will sub-consciously sabotage their efforts at the end to bring their external reality back in line with internal beliefs.

We've all seen someone that was up 6 to 1 in a race to seven have a dramatic collapse and end up losing 7 to 6. This may well be an instance of just this happening.

The importance of mental toughness:

One of the skills that makes someone like Efren Reyes so much better at handling pressure than most other players, is his immense mental toughness -- the ability to keep the internal environment constant, regardless of what's happening in the external environment. If someone is serious about "their game", they must develop the mental toughness to go out and do the same behaviours/actions/techniques, regardless of how confident or motivated they may or may not feel on that day. This kind of mental toughness plays an important role in helping to constantly deliver high quality performances over an extended period of time (long races!).

Mental toughness - something you can work on:

Even though some "players" seem to be born with an ice cold nerve under pressure, that doesn't mean it is not something you can work on. Mental toughness is a skill, and therefore, something you can change and improve. Basic mental skills involve becoming aware of one's ideal internal state, and then developing techniques for creating, monitoring and maintaining this state during important performances. Help of a sports psychologist can be invaluable here -- whether someone would want to take it that far would depend on how serious they were about improving in this area. It won't be cheap; however, what good are those le$$on$ from Stan Shuffett, custom cues, etc. if your mental game fails when needed the most!

Preparing for the pressure situation

One technique "players" can use to prepare for pressure situations is visualising or imagining a pressure situation -- much in the way when you visualize a shot/runout. It may for example be useful to imagine the experience of being Frosty on his last shot to beat Efren in one pocket. Bring back those childhood scenarios when practicing by simulating the upcoming pressure situations as part of your routine (the physical and mental then become part of the muscle memory!). In this way, once the "player" is in the real pressure situation, he/she may feel more confident and at ease and be capable of performing to his/her maximum potential.

Well, I may have opened myself up here from some ridicule and I will more then likely wish I had added something else or explained things differently -- but, for what it's worth I now hit "Submit Reply".
Click to expand...

Bob,

I liked this post a lot. I'm giving you a shout out here and in private!

Thanks for sharing.

Ray
 
Steroids. That is the only possible explanation for anybody playing any better than me. Course, a lot of guys take 'em:p
 
It is probably a combination of things that make one player better than another. The combimations vary depending on the player. Every outstanding player must have a modicum of skill in all areas and probably exceptional skill in two or more. That is what makes them exceptional.

But they do not all have to be exceptional in the same two or three areas at the same time and that is what makes a ball game.
 
Perfact example........

Bigtruck said:
It seems to me that those things certainly come into play.

Have you ever heard someone say, " He's the best $2 player I have ever seen". Bet $10 and he falls apart.

What happens?

Some might say that maybe they can't afford the game at $10. But I've see it happen to people that have plenty of cash....or they play like Efren for $100, bet $500 and he they become Wally Ballbanger......or they play great for 1,000, bet $5,000 and they fall apart.

How do get to where you play the same, no matter what?

Is it even possible? Seems to be for some people.

Ray
Click to expand...

...............NERVES.............its really that simple.........
 
poolhustler said:
Focus

Concentration

Discipline

Eyesight

Pre-shot Routine

Dedication

Mechanics
Click to expand...


that sums it up....the quality of their practice may be better than the other guys also. The mental game has alot to do with it also. My mental game is horrible i guess because i have people that hate playing me beacuse they feel like theres no hope. I wish i had that feeling that there is no hope for him also but i see the people that destroy me and untill i hit that level i cant have that unbeatable attitude because there are people around me that can beat me all day. who knows when i do get to that level i may still have the minor league syndrome but i hope i dont :o)
 
I think there are so many variables that enter into being a pool player, that we could never list all of them (even though the forum has made a nice dent so far).

I sure agree with the Heart, Focus, Talent, etc. observations. They just make good sense. I think we also have to take genetics and physical attributes into account. Anyone who has played against someone half their age with eyes like an eagle's, reflexes of a cat, and the physical conditioning and stamina of a Norse cyborg knows this has some bearing.

Education both on and off the table is a biggie. I always try to keep educational and instructional materials for reference. I have found that the type of education that has done more for me than anything, though, is that occasional bit of wisdom or insight that you are lucky enough to pick up from the oldtimers in the game. They seem to be able to cut through a lot of the veils of mystery in the game in a hurry.

All of the things I've read so far, seem to be accurate descriptions of "why that guy is better". Maybe it's dedication, medication, or maybe it's simply catching a person on a good or bad night...

My theory is that there is just something that everyone on the planet could excel at, if they could just find out what "it" was. I think that most of the time, we're simply too caught up in daily living, or we just try to be in control of what we think we should, would, or could, be in control of to find "it".

I would love to be a great pool player, and have played for years, but I know in my heart that pool is not the game I would ever excel at. Shooting flying things with a shotgun is my "it", on the other hand. I knew as a kid that I had something that I couldn't explain about my wingshooting ability. I saw the path that birds take and just knew how to make the shot.

Later, I learned to shoot clay pigeons. At first, I felt a little lost, as they weren't like what I was used to shooting. It was a very easy matter to adapt, though, and with just a little education on swing mechanics, and the nuances of competition shooting, I became a pretty decent killer of clay targets. I had friends that started shooting clays at the same time, practiced with me consistently, shared the same books, and are still lower ranked shooters.

One of the biggest examples I can think of is when Michael Jordan left basketball to play baseball. Quite possibly the best player in the history of basketball, with eyes, reflexes, heart, intelligence, coordination, and maybe even the ability to fly...sucked big time at baseball (which I'm sure he had the same fondness for as I do my fantasy pool career).

If Efren never had picked up a cue, I have a feeling that he would have found something to be respectable at, but I don't think he would ever have had the same feeling he does on a pool table. Most competitive people will try to compete in arenas that they simply have no chance to become a world beater at, because they have many attributes of a winner, no matter the game.

It's just magic when the right person finds their calling, though: Reyes, Jordan, Ali, Federer, Einstein, Gates, Patton, etc.. Then, I don't think it's a matter of any specific training regimen, or physical attributes that matter (even though they would probably help). I think that the person who has found their game almost has to be stopped. This is when fat boys can dance and old men can still run. They live their passion and then just modify their lives to fit the game, and vice versa. They think nothing about practicing until their hands bleed, or going without sleep for long periods of time, or railbirding matches for hours just to see the game being played, or spending the grocery money to stake a game. No one has to speak to these people about commitment or focus. That's where they live...

There are people who try all their lives to be TV pool players that will never be more than mediocre tournament players. Nothing wrong with that, or I'd have to sell my cue. I admire their commitment and hopefully they will find a comfort level where they feel they've achieved some of their goals. They can shoot a thousand practice balls every day, eat right, and lift weights till the end of time, and they will generally be a lot better than they would have otherwise, but they still won't be as good as the person that has found their game...

Steve
 
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yup

CreeDo said:
I think an overrated aspect of it is talent/genetics.
An underrated aspect is intelligence.

Don't take offense, not saying anyone's dumb, but I notice people who are unusually bright do better at pool. You can explain that left spin on the CB transfers as right onto the OB, which results in a wider/narrower angle off the rail... and one guy 'gets it' and can start using the info immediately, and another guy just somehow can't figure it out or visualize it, and still mixes it up.

I was raving about this kid I saw in canada.. it's not just amazing that he can run 7 balls at the age of six. It's amazing that he knows the difference between a bad hit or a good one, and how to hide someone when playing safe, or when to call a ref to watch a hit. The kid is basically a genius and has this powerful tool he can use in a dozen different ways, and he just happens to be directing it at pool.

You'll see pool players who talk and write like they didn't make it out of high school, but if they take certain standardized IQ tests I they score surprisingly well because those tests deal with your ability to see things logically.

I think more intelligent players are also less likely to lie to themselves about specific game situations and shots, which is a huge obstacle in learning and getting better.

Also, don't discount the idea that no two players will truly have EXACTLY the same hours put into reading/practice etc. Even if the better player has just 10% more, it could be that ten percent that led to some kind of breakthrough in shooting ability. There are certain milestones you'll see players pass and their skill doesn't always increase in a smooth straight line.
Click to expand...

You got that right, my friend. Tried to give you rep, but they said i gotta spread some around before i can give you any more. I'll wait.
 
go ahead, creedo

CreeDo said:
Solidz, and 1on1: Well, it might sound like a copout, but here goes =)
I feel there's more than 1 kind of intelligence... I just blathered on about this very subject in another topic. Sorry to go on about it, it's something I find interesting.

You know how you'll hear some people say "I may not be book-smart but I'm street-smart!" or whatever? Doesn't that just make you want to roll your eyes? But in some cases it can be true. There are smarts you don't learn in school or on the job, and they aren't always obvious at first glance. There are guys who fail calculus or physics but they can figure out the drop of a bullet and estimate range and wind to make incredible shots with a sniper rifle. There are others who chose to drop out and work in a garage, and they have put more time and have more facts memorized about cars than you or I have put into, say, major authors or american history or whatever. Ask those guys about the civil war and they might sound like morons. Ask them about torque or ballistics and they sound like geniuses.

Maybe I'm being too liberal in my interpretation of the word "intelligence" but I believe that spatial reasoning, visual memory and being able to innately understand the physics of the colliding balls are all a form of intelligence, and if the guys with an enthusiasm for pool had dedicated their brainpower to some other subject that uses those things (architecture, engineering, whatever), they'd do just as well because they're smart that way. That intelligence just happened to be directed towards one thing instead of another. These are the guys who shoot pretty sporty in front of 1on1pooltournys and seem uneducated. And they are uneducated in the strict sense of the word but they're not unintelligent. See Jaden's post for the shorter version of all this :B

Whether all of their intelligence is learned or they're at least partially born with it is a muddy area, and at the end of the day if I say "some guys are just born with a certain kind of intelligence that's really good for pool" ... I may just be saying "talent/genetics" all over again and contradicting myself >_<

But I truly believe different flavors of intelligence exist, and the ability to be intelligent is in some way learned, you just need to be brought up in an environment where being analytical and logical is encouraged (at least on the pool table). The guys you're thinking of, solidz, who are pretty smart but struggle on the pool table... maybe they're smart in a different way or maybe they are educated and have a great deal of memorized facts at their disposal but lack common sense in certain ways. Not in ways like "if I write a bad check it will screw me" but on a more basic level like "if I hit something hard it can pass through a solid object like it wasn't there".

Something I notice in players who are NOT improving and are always behind other players: They fail simple common sense tests like "this didn't work for me last time. Will it work this time?" "That ball looks like it doesn't go, should I shoot it anyway?" "I know I jump up and twist my wrist on every shot and try to spin in balls that don't need it. Should I break that habit, starting right now on this very next shot?". "I know if I make that ball I won't have any hope of sinking the next one. Should I just go ahead and make it anyway and hope for the best?"

These guys make the wrong decision over and over (hi, Twoforpool) and I can't help feeling there's something fundamentally UNintelligent about this, even if they're seemingly bright people off the table.

Maybe a better way of phrasing what I'm trying to say is... the people who are behind the curve all seem to unintelligent in some way. But I hate saying it that way because it sounds like I'm ragging on the original poster when I'm not. Whether or not he has a 'brain for pool' is just one theory out of many. The answer to his question could just be as simple as "the other guy really is getting in more practice behind the scenes".
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woah, man. can i be your friend? you...you...no! you listen to me...you're good.
 
Look at the great players in all the other games. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bobby Orr, Joe Montana, Wayne Gretzky, Just to name a few. What they had that the rest of the others didn't have was the ability to see a fast paced game like it was being played in slow motion. It was this ability that made them better than all the other players. Pool isn't played at a fast pace but the person that sees the next shot and the shot after that clearer than the next guy is the superior thinker and also the superior player.

Next time your sitting down. Play along with the person at the table. Tell yourself what you would do in their situation and see what they do, it may help you get better ideas about playing the game.

If your at the table and your not sure about what you should do. Step away from the table, look at the situation your in from a distance, it might become cleared to you what you should do.

This is why they don't put the cameras on the court, or ice, or football field, you see things better from a distance. How many times have you sat in your chair, away from the table, looking at your opponent and asked yourself, "What The "F" is his or her problem.

A famous line from Caddy Shack, "Danny, be the ball."

Sounds crazy but in pool, it makes sense. "Be the Cue-ball."
 
softshot said:
the very best at any given thing all share a common trait

DEDICATION

In Pool and In anything else in life .. you will go as far as your drive and dedication take you and no further.

If a guy is a little better than you he wanted it a little more than you..

If a guy is a lot better than you then he wanted it a lot more than you..

JMO
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I think you are right agree
 
Focus.... unwavering concentration. That and some good rolls. :groucho:
 
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