Why is the cloth green, the chalk blue?

Lawns

Without viewing the link, I know for a fact that billiards was first played as a lawn game. The use of green cloth is too reflect the times that billiards was played outdoors on grass lawns.
 
chalk

I have tournament 860 simonus, and I use masters green chalk. the green in 10 times cleaner than the blue.
 
dogloose said:
Andy Janquitto, former president of USBA and noted author, has penned a great story that answers the question we all have wondered. Read it on 3CushionBilliards.com

Link: Why is the cloth green, the chalk blue?
Click to expand...

Cute story, but I've got two issues:

Chalk on queues pre-dates leather tips. I assumed that was billiard chalk. Did the chalk that pre-dates leather tips simply wall board?
Billiard chalk is silica-based, not calcium carbonate. Did it start out with calcium carbonate?


Freddie <~~~ but it was a good read.
 
Last edited:
I can understand cloth being traditionally green....but I've asked since I was a kid...
...Why are snooker tables set up with pains-taking care to be level....
...and then covered with a directional napped cloth...
...which guarantees it will be crooked?
:angry:
 
Cornerman said:
Cute story, but I've got two issues:

Chalk on queues pre-dates leather tips. I assumed that was billiard chalk. Did the chalk that pre-dates leather tips simply wall board?
Billiard chalk is silica-based, not calcium carbonate. Did it start out with calcium carbonate?


Freddie <~~~ but it was a good read.
Click to expand...

Did you, perhaps, not read down in the article (there is an add that appeared when I looked that made it seem the article was over)? I ask because I think he answers those questions.

The second question is answered clearly - the original chalk was calcium carbonate (and white), then blue natural Italian "chalk" of silica and corundum was introduced, and then Hoskins and Spinks came up with their own manufactured chalk with silica, glue, corundum and coloring.

The first is not as clearly answered, but given the chronology, it must have been that the chalk that pre-dates the leather tip was either actually people grinding their cues into the calcium carbonate in the walls or mined calcium carbonate.

Now I have a question of my own. His conclusion is that the blue chalk "proved more popular among players and room owners". But why? My own answer is because traditional blue shows up less on the green cloth than green chalk.
 
Great story, loved the part of the "magic twisting chalk" that was sold for a week's wages.... WOW ;)
 
All right, smart guys. How do you get snot out of Corduroy?

The first person with the correct answer wins two tickets to the Circle J club, on picturesque Canal street in downtown Galveston.
The Circle J, formerly known as Sally's Place, is now managed by Sally's daughter the lovely Connie Bimstein, and is well known for it's bevy of beautiful babes who are only too eager to provide customers with the latest in exotic, and erotic lap-dances.
Come have the time of your life at the Circle J. :D
 
If the table is green and your chalk is blue, you are either:
a) playing on the wrong table, or
b) using the wrong chalk.
 
I put Simonis 860 Gold color cloth on my table and use Masters tan chalk (and other brands - gold color). I will use this combination at home for the rest of my years. The tan chalk does not stain the ferrule or shaft at all...no matter the amount of use. The cue ball stays much cleaner for a longer period of time as well.
 
GideonF said:
Did you, perhaps, not read down in the article (there is an add that appeared when I looked that made it seem the article was over)? I ask because I think he answers those questions.

The second question is answered clearly - the original chalk was calcium carbonate (and white), then blue natural Italian "chalk" of silica and corundum was introduced, and then Hoskins and Spinks came up with their own manufactured chalk with silica, glue, corundum and coloring.

The first is not as clearly answered, but given the chronology, it must have been that the chalk that pre-dates the leather tip was either actually people grinding their cues into the calcium carbonate in the walls or mined calcium carbonate.

Now I have a question of my own. His conclusion is that the blue chalk "proved more popular among players and room owners". But why? My own answer is because traditional blue shows up less on the green cloth than green chalk.
Click to expand...

Several Caveats here... I appreciate the research he did but there are some inconsistencies....

Color was added to White chalk based upon the smoke from the oil lamps and tobacco... White chalk left out in that environment turns a nasty yellow brown in short order.... So to combat that effect color was added so naturally they went with pigments to match the cloth.....

Calcium carbonate or regular chalk is non-abrasive and will not function as regular chalk unless you have a vein that is high in silica and corundum as well like was found in Italy... The Magic Twisting chalk was a tin of said limestone with a silica and corundum content that was high enough to apply friction....

When the patent was issued to Spinks the chemically formulated chalk had been based upon the Italian chalk and it took them several attempts to come up with a suitable formula.... The patent was written wrong so it was not defensible since the same compounds were naturally occurring and they had made no "improvements" on what was already in use... They likely should have just kept the formula proprietary as the patent actually was why manufactured chalk blew up because they had more or less published the formula for all to see......

Drywall was not invented until 1916 so noone was grinding their tips into the walls or ceilings in early efforts regardless of what was posted and that discover did not knock Carr out of sales because calcium carbonate does not work as billiard chalk on it's own... General scuffing of the tip to keep it rough was the only form of increasing friction until the magic twisting chalk showed up... Hand chalk came well after billiard chalk but I cannot find that source either but no again that was not what was in Carr's little magic tins....

There are several stories of Carr's life and his gambling and travels..

I really wish my old laptop was not a brick as I had most of the articles saved that provided much of the above information. I had 25-30 articles saves many were from snooker and billiard references that were quite old that I had found when doing research while formulating our Great White..
 
There's another aspect which has not been touched upon.

In the days of the napped Brunsco or Mali cloth, over time, the green cloth would turn blue underneath the usual lighting. Actually it happened pretty quickly, over several months. That does not happen with today's Simonis cloth, it stays its original color.

Now, does that have anything to do with chalk being default blue? Maybe, maybe not. But, the chalk did match the cloth after a while, in the old days. The blue chalk color seems to have stayed with the default color due to habit.

All the best,
WW
 
The Renfro said:
Several Caveats here... I appreciate the research he did but there are some inconsistencies....

Color was added to White chalk based upon the smoke from the oil lamps and tobacco... White chalk left out in that environment turns a nasty yellow brown in short order.... So to combat that effect color was added so naturally they went with pigments to match the cloth.....

Calcium carbonate or regular chalk is non-abrasive and will not function as regular chalk unless you have a vein that is high in silica and corundum as well like was found in Italy... The Magic Twisting chalk was a tin of said limestone with a silica and corundum content that was high enough to apply friction....

When the patent was issued to Spinks the chemically formulated chalk had been based upon the Italian chalk and it took them several attempts to come up with a suitable formula.... The patent was written wrong so it was not defensible since the same compounds were naturally occurring and they had made no "improvements" on what was already in use... They likely should have just kept the formula proprietary as the patent actually was why manufactured chalk blew up because they had more or less published the formula for all to see......

Drywall was not invented until 1916 so noone was grinding their tips into the walls or ceilings in early efforts regardless of what was posted and that discover did not knock Carr out of sales because calcium carbonate does not work as billiard chalk on it's own... General scuffing of the tip to keep it rough was the only form of increasing friction until the magic twisting chalk showed up... Hand chalk came well after billiard chalk but I cannot find that source either but no again that was not what was in Carr's little magic tins....

There are several stories of Carr's life and his gambling and travels..

I really wish my old laptop was not a brick as I had most of the articles saved that provided much of the above information. I had 25-30 articles saves many were from snooker and billiard references that were quite old that I had found when doing research while formulating our Great White..
Click to expand...

Nice information, Chris. This all fits much better with my previous understanding of the chalk timeline.


Freddie
 
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