Why is the Main Forum hijacked by technical freaks ?

[tonythetiger583]

I feel like the biggest contributor to a stagnant azb is the refusal to answer old questions. New members who ask questions are told to search old threads because the topic has already been covered.

While I completely understand that it's to prevent from having a billion different threads covering the same topic, I think it really prevents the older generation from the actual act of passing on the torch to the next generation.

I think not wanting to cover old topics that might be new and exciting topics for some of us is what's killing azb.

So if a new player has a question about anything, quickly refer him to the 137 page flame war from a year ago, and while he's sifting through that to find even a single relevant comment, keep the funny pic thread alive and well and twiddle your thumbs while complaining that azb is dying.

I just feel like there's this gap that is made up of the older generation's refusal to let go, and actively denying a newer generation access to learning.

Teaching and guiding someone, versus handing them a dictionary aren't exactly the same.

Also if a new thread is created on an old topic that's been talked to death by older members. Let's actively sabotage, ridicule and ruin it for the first timers.

 

[336Robin]

Archives

I feel like the biggest contributor to a stagnant azb is the refusal to answer old questions. New members who ask questions are told to search old threads because the topic has already been covered.

While I completely understand that it's to prevent from having a billion different threads covering the same topic, I think it really prevents the older generation from the actual act of passing on the torch to the next generation.

I think not wanting to cover old topics that might be new and exciting topics for some of us is what's killing azb.

So if a new player has a question about anything, quickly refer him to the 137 page flame war from a year ago, and while he's sifting through that to find even a single relevant comment, keep the funny pic thread alive and well and twiddle your thumbs while complaining that azb is dying.

I just feel like there's this gap that is made up of the older generation's refusal to let go, and actively denying a newer generation access to learning.

Teaching and guiding someone, versus handing them a dictionary aren't exactly the same.

Also if a new thread is created on an old topic that's been talked to death by older members. Let's actively sabotage, ridicule and ruin it for the first timers.

This is exactly why Im not so sure that archiving all this as vital information is so important. There are always going to be people here in the know and it might just be wasted bandwidth. Who cares about reading through something that happened 1 year ago and who would even know where to search?

 

[Mark Griffin]

Is AZB on life support compared to previous years?

I wanted to put out my thoughts on this subject. I used to post quite a bit. Not a lot but 2300 posts in 11 years. I don't post much anymore. And in turn find that I don't visit the forums as much as before.

And I can tell you what my reason is. The constant negativity and criticism exhibited by some of the posters. There is a handful that have been allowed to contaminate the forums with their negativity and complaints. Constructive criticism is good, just criticizing usually isn't. I'm not for restriction of 'freedom of speech' - but I am for being and acting responsibility. If you are going to disagree, do it with mutual respect.

If you try to respond to an issue, and take the time to explain the situation (or your perspective), some just want to argue with you. It then becomes a non-ending battle that never gets settled.

It is discouraging and will prevent me from a lot of participation. I don't need to spend a lot of time arguing with people that just won't accept the facts. Obviously, if you're as active as I am in the industry, mistakes will be made. I understand that and accept that. But to be wrongly accused of all kinds of things (dishonestly, showing favoritism etc.) because of a difference of opinion is not acceptable.

My suggestion would be to form a new subgroup in the main forum. Must use your real name. Must be closer monitored. Everybody can post - but the chain would be short for those that think the 1st amendment allows them to speak recklessly. Posters would be held accountable for their actions. If a person is 'banned' from this section, they could still post in the main forum (unless also banned there).

It is a shame. I have always really enjoyed the forums. But the constant bickering and arguing becomes destructive.

On several occasions, I have blatantly listed my phone number. I have received almost no calls. Yet these posters will continue to bash with bad facts. Its tough to be logical with idiots (I am not calling everyone an idiot. BUT sometimes the person makes it quite obvious they are not interested in the truth).

I will lurk from a distance - hopefully I will see an improvement in the attitudes of the posters and the moderators.

As always, just my thoughts, but I represent one of the most active organizations in the industry. Ask why almost no manufacturer, or large company participates on the forums. We are about the only league operations that was ever involved. And we produce many events-both amateur and professional. Yet some people are hoping for our failure because we 'didn't do what they wanted'. That thinking is harmful to the whole industry.

Everyday we put our time and money into the industry. We embrace all that do the same. But no one should have to tolerate 'keyboard cowboys' that have no investment and too much time on their hands.

Rant over -

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International, LLC

 

[336Robin]

Pretty Tame Considering

Mark,
Considering the comments Ive seen you deal with, your rant was pretty tame.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Ouch.

You're happy with the content on the main forum, then?

I believe any who are interested in discussing something have the ability to post a new thread.

What did you want to discuss Ron?

KMRUNOUT

 

[DAVE_M]

This is exactly why Im not so sure that archiving all this as vital information is so important. There are always going to be people here in the know and it might just be wasted bandwidth. Who cares about reading through something that happened 1 year ago and who would even know where to search?

I think the problem is that most members barely know how to log on, let alone use the search feature, which is common to all vBulletin forums. I made a thread, a while back, that showed a bypass to using the search feature, that could be done on Google. It got maybe 100 views and 3 replies. If we took a poll, most AzB members are 40+ years old. I would say that a good majority of those 40+ year old members, are not very tech savvy.

Typically, when I tell someone that the topic has been discussed ad nauseam, I provide a link of a recent discussion that was worth while. I usually find a recent discussion, through the search, within seconds, and I post that link.

The OP/Title question is rather amusing, because it's not so much technical freaks that have taken over, it's that the people, who know what the hell they are talking about, have weeded out all of the dumb rednecks that like to play straight 8 at the bar and call us infidels if we play ball in hand rules.

I've noticed a trend, however. Most members have flocked to the main forum, because that's where the talk is at. Everyone visits the main forum, because it gets a lot of views. There aren't many people who venture into the Cue & Case Review section. Hell, even the Room Owner sub-forum is dead as can be. It even looks like the AzB of yesteryear when you click on it. There are sub-forums upon sub-forums of dead topics and discussions. Even the ridiculous CJ Wiley, whether you agree with him or not, couldn't keep his discussions in the specific forum where they belong.

IMO, it's due to a lack of moderation. Not that Mike, Jerry, and the great and powerful Wilson aren't doing what they can. It's that there isn't enough man power to correct all the idiots who can't pay attention. Even the proclaimed Cue Flippers had their share of panic when AzB did a top secret trial run of epic failure known as Panjo Marketplace.

AzB has become TV Land, where we play the same reruns of crap, over and over, until it becomes so nauseating that members have fled to the terrible Facebook.

Between the brainwashing and cult following of DVD salesmen, the undeniable economy collapse, and the unfortunate passing of players that knew the game in it's prime, AzB won't stand a chance unless we all get it together. *****ing about a problem doesn't solve it.

/rant

 

[BRussell]

If you try to respond to an issue, and take the time to explain the situation (or your perspective), some just want to argue with you. It then becomes a non-ending battle that never gets settled.

Mark I think you guys have always handled the CSI mini-controversies well, and that you've always been honest and upfront about your position. But you can't expect everyone to agree with you. I think AZB is probably the least nasty and negative place I've ever seen. To put it into some context, remember there are a whole lot of people who believe that Bush perpetrated 9/11, or that Obama is secretly a Kenyan Muslim, or spend their days spreading racist bigoted crap, or unfairly accusing others of being racists and bigots. Comparatively, the Souquet-SVB thing or the Sky/Oscar stream thing are pretty tame.

Whenever I think pool is nasty, I think about the legions of football and other major sports fan who spend their days hating on the latest sports figure who happens to be in the limelight. Imagine being a league owner, coach or player in one of those sports! Cheers, and I'm really looking forward to hearing about what you're going to be doing with FargoRate.

 

[SilverCue]

And here I was gonna start a thread in the main forum about satellite-guided cue ball positioning. Oh well, I guess that belongs in the aiming forum.

NO! That would be the position forum

 

[SilverCue]

I wanted to put out my thoughts on this subject. I used to post quite a bit. Not a lot but 2300 posts in 11 years. I don't post much anymore. And in turn find that I don't visit the forums as much as before.

And I can tell you what my reason is. The constant negativity and criticism exhibited by some of the posters. There is a handful that have been allowed to contaminate the forums with their negativity and complaints. Constructive criticism is good, just criticizing usually isn't. I'm not for restriction of 'freedom of speech' - but I am for being and acting responsibility. If you are going to disagree, do it with mutual respect.

If you try to respond to an issue, and take the time to explain the situation (or your perspective), some just want to argue with you. It then becomes a non-ending battle that never gets settled.

It is discouraging and will prevent me from a lot of participation. I don't need to spend a lot of time arguing with people that just won't accept the facts. Obviously, if you're as active as I am in the industry, mistakes will be made. I understand that and accept that. But to be wrongly accused of all kinds of things (dishonestly, showing favoritism etc.) because of a difference of opinion is not acceptable.

My suggestion would be to form a new subgroup in the main forum. Must use your real name. Must be closer monitored. Everybody can post - but the chain would be short for those that think the 1st amendment allows them to speak recklessly. Posters would be held accountable for their actions. If a person is 'banned' from this section, they could still post in the main forum (unless also banned there).

It is a shame. I have always really enjoyed the forums. But the constant bickering and arguing becomes destructive.

On several occasions, I have blatantly listed my phone number. I have received almost no calls. Yet these posters will continue to bash with bad facts. Its tough to be logical with idiots (I am not calling everyone an idiot. BUT sometimes the person makes it quite obvious they are not interested in the truth).

I will lurk from a distance - hopefully I will see an improvement in the attitudes of the posters and the moderators.

As always, just my thoughts, but I represent one of the most active organizations in the industry. Ask why almost no manufacturer, or large company participates on the forums. We are about the only league operations that was ever involved. And we produce many events-both amateur and professional. Yet some people are hoping for our failure because we 'didn't do what they wanted'. That thinking is harmful to the whole industry.

Everyday we put our time and money into the industry. We embrace all that do the same. But no one should have to tolerate 'keyboard cowboys' that have no investment and too much time on their hands.

Rant over -

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International, LLC

Write On Cowboy

 

[caff3in3]

I wanted to put out my thoughts on this subject. I used to post quite a bit. Not a lot but 2300 posts in 11 years. I don't post much anymore. And in turn find that I don't visit the forums as much as before.

And I can tell you what my reason is. The constant negativity and criticism exhibited by some of the posters. There is a handful that have been allowed to contaminate the forums with their negativity and complaints. Constructive criticism is good, just criticizing usually isn't. I'm not for restriction of 'freedom of speech' - but I am for being and acting responsibility. If you are going to disagree, do it with mutual respect.

If you try to respond to an issue, and take the time to explain the situation (or your perspective), some just want to argue with you. It then becomes a non-ending battle that never gets settled.

It is discouraging and will prevent me from a lot of participation. I don't need to spend a lot of time arguing with people that just won't accept the facts. Obviously, if you're as active as I am in the industry, mistakes will be made. I understand that and accept that. But to be wrongly accused of all kinds of things (dishonestly, showing favoritism etc.) because of a difference of opinion is not acceptable.

My suggestion would be to form a new subgroup in the main forum. Must use your real name. Must be closer monitored. Everybody can post - but the chain would be short for those that think the 1st amendment allows them to speak recklessly. Posters would be held accountable for their actions. If a person is 'banned' from this section, they could still post in the main forum (unless also banned there).

It is a shame. I have always really enjoyed the forums. But the constant bickering and arguing becomes destructive.

On several occasions, I have blatantly listed my phone number. I have received almost no calls. Yet these posters will continue to bash with bad facts. Its tough to be logical with idiots (I am not calling everyone an idiot. BUT sometimes the person makes it quite obvious they are not interested in the truth).

I will lurk from a distance - hopefully I will see an improvement in the attitudes of the posters and the moderators.

As always, just my thoughts, but I represent one of the most active organizations in the industry. Ask why almost no manufacturer, or large company participates on the forums. We are about the only league operations that was ever involved. And we produce many events-both amateur and professional. Yet some people are hoping for our failure because we 'didn't do what they wanted'. That thinking is harmful to the whole industry.

Everyday we put our time and money into the industry. We embrace all that do the same. But no one should have to tolerate 'keyboard cowboys' that have no investment and too much time on their hands.

Rant over -

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International, LLC

It saddens me a bit that some of the great resources such as yourself arent active on here due to the argumentative jackasses that only seem to want to caue problems.

 

[Farhan]

I really like the idea of a more closely monitored subsection devoid of users' anonymity.

 

[chevybob20]

There are too many sub forums. Call me lazy but, I'm not searching through multiple forums for info. I go to the Main, Live Stream and NPR forums to browse. I cringe every time someone suggests another sub forum.

 

[336Robin]

Subforums=devaluation of forum

There are too many sub forums. Call me lazy but, I'm not searching through multiple forums for info. I go to the Main, Live Stream and NPR forums to browse. I cringe every time someone suggests another sub forum.

I couldn't agree more, greenies.

 

[spartan]

I think PJ nailed it when he asked if you are the person to consult as to how to determine what to discuss here. The forum is a big place and pool is a big subject drawn up into lots of little technical areas that make it all work. Physics, Geometry, Stroke, Spin, Cue Diameter, Taper, End Mass, Weight, Cloth texture there are so many things and depending on how adept you are in the sport will depend on how much those things might matter to you. So seeing them as valid or invalid subjects for the Main Forum might be a litmus test in itself indicating where you are in your game. Simply put the commentary concerning pool events might not interest as many people as you think. Judging just from your comments you make statements denoting that the comments you like to see are in a minority. So why not relegate those type comments to a section of its own and stop polluting the Main Forum up with news about this player and that? So there are lots of ways to look at things and I understand your comment, your intention but the obvious end is to customize the forum to suit you. It might be possible that there are more people here than you and that other people merely scroll past what doesn't interest them and go on living and let live.

If topics in sub forums can be discussed in Main Forum then why everyone just camp and post in Main Forum so there is only e one section in Azb called "Forum":grin:
Oh and this may be too technical for you but new users who comes to Azb from search engines etc will not reach customised pages- they reach Main Forum or sub forum
:grin:

Mark I think you guys have always handled the CSI mini-controversies well, and that you've always been honest and upfront about your position. But you can't expect everyone to agree with you. I think AZB is probably the least nasty and negative place I've ever seen. To put it into some context, remember there are a whole lot of people who believe that Bush perpetrated 9/11, or that Obama is secretly a Kenyan Muslim, or spend their days spreading racist bigoted crap, or unfairly accusing others of being racists and bigots. Comparatively, the Souquet-SVB thing or the Sky/Oscar stream thing are pretty tame.

Whenever I think pool is nasty, I think about the legions of football and other major sports fan who spend their days hating on the latest sports figure who happens to be in the limelight. Imagine being a league owner, coach or player in one of those sports! Cheers, and I'm really looking forward to hearing about what you're going to be doing with FargoRate.

That is true
This forum is tame compared to other niche forums. Heck Azbers will be considered saints (except for some snakes , charlatans, spivs) compared to those in other forums

 

[JoeyA]

STAGNATION through STIFLING & RIDICULE.

You make a great point tonythetiger583. In fact, I agree with you 100%.

New members have been discouraged in posting by more seasoned posters who think that repeated subjects shouldn't be discussed again as new and that new members should first do a search for the information that has already been discussed. THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE FORUM SEEMS STAGNANT TO SOME.

The attempt to stifle new discussions on old subject matter and to ridicule posters because they want to have a discussion about a subject that has been discussed previously is one of the main problems of this site.

I think anyone who suggests that a subject has been discussed previously should be given a time-out for say a week to reflect on their omniscience.


In summary, some of those who look down their nose at new members for asking questions that have already been discussed are primarily responsible for the so-called stagnation that may exist in the forums.

(If you don't want to read about old topics, roll your eyes in private, ignore those threads, go somewhere else, or God forbid, create some new topic that is pool related and never been discussed previously.)

JoeyA

I feel like the biggest contributor to a stagnant azb is the refusal to answer old questions. New members who ask questions are told to search old threads because the topic has already been covered.

While I completely understand that it's to prevent from having a billion different threads covering the same topic, I think it really prevents the older generation from the actual act of passing on the torch to the next generation.

I think not wanting to cover old topics that might be new and exciting topics for some of us is what's killing azb.

So if a new player has a question about anything, quickly refer him to the 137 page flame war from a year ago, and while he's sifting through that to find even a single relevant comment, keep the funny pic thread alive and well and twiddle your thumbs while complaining that azb is dying.

I just feel like there's this gap that is made up of the older generation's refusal to let go, and actively denying a newer generation access to learning.

Teaching and guiding someone, versus handing them a dictionary aren't exactly the same.

Also if a new thread is created on an old topic that's been talked to death by older members. Let's actively sabotage, ridicule and ruin it for the first timers.

 

[JoeyA]

There are too many sub forums. Call me lazy but, I'm not searching through multiple forums for info. I go to the Main, Live Stream and NPR forums to browse. I cringe every time someone suggests another sub forum.

OF COURSE, there are too many sub forums. That is a second reason for the so called stagnation. AGAIN, it is those who whine and complain about subjects that they don't like, being discussed in the Main Forum that are to be blamed.

I seldom ever go to sub-forums. It is quicker for me to scan the Main Forum to see if there are any threads that interest me. I post and then I'm gone. I don't have the time to scan each and every sub-forum for subject matter that might interest me.

In the past, you could look in the Main Forum and see which threads were trending hot and read, participate or not.

The management and ownership of this site must shoulder some of the responsibility for listening to the loud whine of a few, instead of putting the muzzle on those who would disrupt the natural growth of a Main Forum. To the management's credits, most of the haranguing has been fixed by applying the muzzle. Now, they just need to return some of the sub-forums to the Main Forum and the blood transfusion will be quick and noticeable.

Aiming threads ALWAYS brought much lively discussion, so I suggest bringing back that sub-forum to the Main Forum as the first one. :canoodle::canoodle::canoodle:

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I missed this excellent post as well. (Been doing too much fishing, I guess) I like the idea of a Main Forum with real names (authenticated). It wouldn't completely eliminate the ad hominem attacks but it would certainly put a dent in them.

Of course, then the regular Main Forum would be diminished as well. Maybe the name of the new forum should be called THE REAL MAIN FORUM.

I think discussions and differences of opinions are fine but when posters start getting personal and making attacks on other posters, they need to be muzzled, either permanently or until they have learned their lesson. If they promise that they have learned their lesson and make another mistake after that, ban them forever.

JoeyA

I wanted to put out my thoughts on this subject. I used to post quite a bit. Not a lot but 2300 posts in 11 years. I don't post much anymore. And in turn find that I don't visit the forums as much as before.

And I can tell you what my reason is. The constant negativity and criticism exhibited by some of the posters. There is a handful that have been allowed to contaminate the forums with their negativity and complaints. Constructive criticism is good, just criticizing usually isn't. I'm not for restriction of 'freedom of speech' - but I am for being and acting responsibility. If you are going to disagree, do it with mutual respect.

If you try to respond to an issue, and take the time to explain the situation (or your perspective), some just want to argue with you. It then becomes a non-ending battle that never gets settled.

It is discouraging and will prevent me from a lot of participation. I don't need to spend a lot of time arguing with people that just won't accept the facts. Obviously, if you're as active as I am in the industry, mistakes will be made. I understand that and accept that. But to be wrongly accused of all kinds of things (dishonestly, showing favoritism etc.) because of a difference of opinion is not acceptable.

My suggestion would be to form a new subgroup in the main forum. Must use your real name. Must be closer monitored. Everybody can post - but the chain would be short for those that think the 1st amendment allows them to speak recklessly. Posters would be held accountable for their actions. If a person is 'banned' from this section, they could still post in the main forum (unless also banned there).

It is a shame. I have always really enjoyed the forums. But the constant bickering and arguing becomes destructive.

On several occasions, I have blatantly listed my phone number. I have received almost no calls. Yet these posters will continue to bash with bad facts. Its tough to be logical with idiots (I am not calling everyone an idiot. BUT sometimes the person makes it quite obvious they are not interested in the truth).

I will lurk from a distance - hopefully I will see an improvement in the attitudes of the posters and the moderators.

As always, just my thoughts, but I represent one of the most active organizations in the industry. Ask why almost no manufacturer, or large company participates on the forums. We are about the only league operations that was ever involved. And we produce many events-both amateur and professional. Yet some people are hoping for our failure because we 'didn't do what they wanted'. That thinking is harmful to the whole industry.

Everyday we put our time and money into the industry. We embrace all that do the same. But no one should have to tolerate 'keyboard cowboys' that have no investment and too much time on their hands.

Rant over -

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International, LLC

 

[pt109]

I missed this excellent post as well. (Been doing too much fishing, I guess) I like the idea of a Main Forum with real names (authenticated). It wouldn't completely eliminate the ad hominem attacks but it would certainly put a dent in them.

Of course, then the regular Main Forum would be diminished as well. Maybe the name of the new forum should be called THE REAL MAIN FORUM.

I think discussions and differences of opinions are fine but when posters start getting personal and making attacks on other posters, they need to be muzzled, either permanently or until they have learned their lesson. If they promise that they have learned their lesson and make another mistake after that, ban them forever.

JoeyA

I agree about new threads on old topics...new viewpoints can be valuable....
....possibly combined with links to the old ones.

I disagree about trying to turn AZ into FB....a lot of us aren't hawking anything and
wish to remain anonymous...if this was FB...I wouldn't post.
A lot of us get to know each other without putting our business on the street.

The Book of Ecclesiastes author was never positively identified...but even some
atheists and agnostics say they get value from it.

 

[JoeyA]

I agree about new threads on old topics...new viewpoints can be valuable....
....possibly combined with links to the old ones.

I disagree about trying to turn AZ into FB....a lot of us aren't hawking anything and
wish to remain anonymous...if this was FB...I wouldn't post.
A lot of us get to know each other without putting our business on the street.

The Book of Ecclesiastes author was never positively identified...but even some
atheists and agnostics say they get value from it.

Name one. :wink: j/k

I suppose the real problem is the mean-spirited sniping at other posters and not the anonymity itself. Although the anonymity is a shield for some of the people who create angst on this forum.

Some posters use their real names and are constantly ridiculing new and old posters alike as well as anything that they don't like or agree with. ;-)

Maybe there just needs to be a procedure to install the muzzle faster and perhaps in some cases, permanently.

JoeyA

 

[pt109]

Name one. :wink: j/k

I suppose the real problem is the mean-spirited sniping at other posters and not the anonymity itself. Although the anonymity is a shield for some of the people who create angst on this forum.

Some posters use their real names and are constantly ridiculing new and old posters alike as well as anything that they don't like or agree with. ;-)

Maybe there just needs to be a procedure to install the muzzle faster and perhaps in some cases, permanently.

JoeyA

I can understand the muzzle, Joey.
Each individual owns what he posts...if only to himself....and negative posters tend
to hurt themselves whether they perceive it or not.
I'm probably more polite on here than in person...I enjoy the woofing in an action
room.....and I can give it and I can take it.