why is the new z shaft toothpick diameter?

J

johnrp2005

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hi does anyone know why predator came out with a so small diameter in their new great low deflection shaft? i mean i was so thrilled at first to hear wow predator made a newer and better shaft with even more low deflection the new z shaft right. then i learned the diameter and that totally turned me off. i never
really liked such a small diameter 11.75 is small isnt it? does i geuss smaller diameter give better performance it must because why would predator come out with a very small diameter shaft as their new idea. wouldnt they be scared
to think oh maybe people will not like that fact. i geuss they did research and determined people like small diameter? does anyone know more about this
new z shaft idea of predator?
 
less deflection

Hey... if you like cue shafts with little to no deflection...if i may... i suggest looking into OB-1 shafts made by OB Cues...you can learn more at www.obcues.com.

sorry to interject...just my opinion.

manders:D
 
I think since some of the letters are missing the humor is lost in the post, it should be:

ww.go to their website and ask someone who both knows and cares.com/
 
johnrp2005 said:
hi does anyone know why predator came out with a so small diameter in their new great low deflection shaft? i mean i was so thrilled at first to hear wow predator made a newer and better shaft with even more low deflection the new z shaft right. then i learned the diameter and that totally turned me off. i never
really liked such a small diameter 11.75 is small isnt it? does i geuss smaller diameter give better performance it must because why would predator come out with a very small diameter shaft as their new idea. wouldnt they be scared
to think oh maybe people will not like that fact. i geuss they did research and determined people like small diameter? does anyone know more about this
new z shaft idea of predator?
Click to expand...

Squirt is generally considered to be a phenomenon which can be lessened by cutting down on the tip end mass of the cue. The tip end mass is the last few inches of the shaft. The Predator Z uses a conical taper, which allows for a smaller-tipped shaft (very low tip end mass, compared to a standard 13 mm tip) and still maintain the rigidity of a "pro-taper" shaft (conical-tapered shafts are generally stiffer than pro-tapered shafts). This is why the Z is consistently rated as one of the lowest-squirt cues on the market. Whether or not this helps anyone's game is entirely up to the individual, though - low-squirt cues are not the magic pill. I think Fred (cornerman) can attest to this.

I switched from a 13.5 mm pro-tapered shaft (I used the same shaft for over 5 years) to the 11.75 mm conical-tapered Z shaft. It was a dramatic change for me (to say the least). I also thought, at the time I bought it, that the Z shaft's tip diameter might cause some problems for me, but I made sure I'd get used to it by selling my old cue! That forced me to learn to live with it or die trying. Now, I can't play with a regular shaft anymore. I've gotten so used to the characteristics of this shaft that a "normal" shaft feels totally alien to me. I'm sure if I spent the time re-learning the characteristics of a "normal" shaft, I could play with one again. However, I feel much more comfortable playing side with the Z than I did with my "log" shaft, and I don't mind the conical taper since I don't use a closed bridge.

What it comes down to is that I was willing to set aside my preconceived notions about a smaller diameter shaft and give it the old college try. Really, that's all that matters in pool. If you're willing to put the time in, you'll be rewarded (usually). In my case, I feel a marked improvement in my game. Keep in mind, though, that mileage definitely varies. I have a couple of friends who bought Z shafts, too, after seeing the improvement in my game with my Z shaft. One of them loves his and is improving on a weekly basis. The other couldn't get used to it and has since switched to a 314. Like I said, it ain't a magic pill.

I'd suggest finding someone who has a Z shaft and wouldn't mind letting you hit some balls with it.

-djb
 
I used to use a shaft that was 11.25mm and I had very little problems with it. I now use it as a backup because I have moved up to 12.5mm. My small shaft created tons of spin but I think that I was also getting unintentional spin that lowered my consistency and was hindering me. I feel that with a larger shaft I can be more accurate with my shots. The 11.75 mm Z shaft doesn't seem that small to me after having an 11.25 mm. A smaller shaft requires a better stroke, I think.
 
Something conical is something cone-shaped, a cone starts out small at one end and ends up much larger at the other. So in this instance a shaft is 11.75mm at one end and instead of remaining the same size for x number of inches (like in a pro taper) it immediately but gradually starts getting larger in diameter.

Hope that helps.
 
Just for the record, McDermott has a similar shaft called the I-3. You can tell by looking the blue color inside the shaft. On top of that, all of the Intimadator shafts come with Moori's too. I hear they are very comparable to the Predators as well.
 
I used to play with a 10mm snooker cue and it didn't bother me. After using 13mm tips I found it was easier to play power shots, and especially power english shots due to the increased weight and stiffness of the larger shafts.

So I think an 11.75mm tip shouldn't be that hard to adjust to after a while.

That said, I don't see a big advantage with a low squirt cue. It possibly makes parallel english quite accurate at a longer range (say 2 to 3 feet) seperation of CB-OB, rather than the 1 to 2 feet range of a standard squirt cue. Being able to play the mid length range shots could be a big boon to players who have struggled with them in the past.

Though once we get to longer range shots a degree of BHE or off parallel aligning must be used to compensate for the effect of squirt over distance.

With a very low deflection cue, bridge lengths for many BHE shots would be awkwardly long in my opinion according to limited trialing with such cues.
 
Colin Colenso said:
.... increased weight and stiffness of the larger shafts.
Click to expand...
Shaft size doesn't necessarily determine stiffness. For example, my Kilyby's 10mm and 11.5mm segmented shafts and 11.5mm carbon shaft are all significantly stiffer (static measurement) than the 13.5mm (I think) shaft on a Joss I have.
Colin Colenso said:
.... With a very low deflection cue, bridge lengths for many BHE shots would be awkwardly long in my opinion according to limited trialing with such cues.
Click to expand...
Depends on how low the deflection is. With the 10mm shaft, the pivot point on my Kilby is about at the leading edge of my back hand in normal shooting position. To the extent that I think about it (which isn't much) I apply "front hand" english, moving my bridge hand in the direction I want to apply english. Not awkward at all. :)
 
jwpretd said:
Shaft size doesn't necessarily determine stiffness. For example, my Kilyby's 10mm and 11.5mm segmented shafts and 11.5mm carbon shaft are all significantly stiffer (static measurement) than the 13.5mm (I think) shaft on a Joss I have.

Depends on how low the deflection is. With the 10mm shaft, the pivot point on my Kilby is about at the leading edge of my back hand in normal shooting position. To the extent that I think about it (which isn't much) I apply "front hand" english, moving my bridge hand in the direction I want to apply english. Not awkward at all. :)
Click to expand...
I know shaft width does not necessarily mean a cue is stiffer. But it is more likely. My 10mm cue had a stiff shaft. Flexy 10mm shafts vibrate severely when hitting 2 1/4" balls with spin. I was generalizing to be concise.

On the pivot point issue, I think you are measuring it in a different way that includes colliding into another ball at a set distance. But the SIT on the OB makes the pivot point appear much longer, especially if the CB and OB within a couple of feet.

What I don't like about front hand english, is the inconsistancy of keeping the back hand in position.
 
OB-1 Shaft by OB Cues

The OB-1 has a long pro taper, 12.75 tip, and performs as well as a Z-Shaft. IMHO

-Doc
 
jwpretd said:
Shaft size doesn't necessarily determine stiffness. For example, my Kilyby's 10mm and 11.5mm segmented shafts and 11.5mm carbon shaft are all significantly stiffer (static measurement) than the 13.5mm (I think) shaft on a Joss I have.

Depends on how low the deflection is. With the 10mm shaft, the pivot point on my Kilby is about at the leading edge of my back hand in normal shooting position. To the extent that I think about it (which isn't much) I apply "front hand" english, moving my bridge hand in the direction I want to apply english. Not awkward at all. :)
Click to expand...



Can you play billiards with a Z shaft or does the predator ferrule and end of shaft stuff make it likely to break? And yes, Kilby's shafts are stiff IMO. I have different ones and they are all fairly stiff, including segmented ones for pool. The carom shafts are of course very stiff.
 
Colin Colenso said:
What I don't like about front hand english, is the inconsistancy of keeping the back hand in position.
Click to expand...

Colin, could you clarify this statement?

How could the back hand taking the SAME forward path on every shot (FHE) be less consistent than the back hand taking a DIFFERENT forward path on every shot (BHE)?

-djb
 
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