fair rule
Now that would be a fair rule. Butterflycues
MisterBanker said:
Now that would be a fair rule. Butterflycues
Why no called shots in 9 ball or 10 ball?
- Thread starter bagofpaper
- Start date
Someone PMed me admonishing me to read...
Here's what they sent me:
Subject: READ
"Maybe you kneed to learn to read. Did you see any where in my post that I said that luck only happens in nine ball?"
And here's my response:
"I read quite well, thanks! Luck happens in all pool games. However, the balls count without calling them in various games, and one pocket, arguably the most difficult of games, doesn't require balls to be called...
Have a nice day!"
Upon closer examination of the obviously irked PMer's message, whose identity is protected in my post here, one finds an egregious misspelling... "need" is the correct word in the first sentence, not "kneed".
While composing this post, said irked poster sent me a further PM, to wit:
"That was my point, it appeared to me that you were replying to my post and I never said anything about luck only happening in nine ball."
Glad to see we now think alike.
Cheers!
Flex
Here's what they sent me:
Subject: READ
"Maybe you kneed to learn to read. Did you see any where in my post that I said that luck only happens in nine ball?"
And here's my response:
"I read quite well, thanks! Luck happens in all pool games. However, the balls count without calling them in various games, and one pocket, arguably the most difficult of games, doesn't require balls to be called...
Have a nice day!"
Upon closer examination of the obviously irked PMer's message, whose identity is protected in my post here, one finds an egregious misspelling... "need" is the correct word in the first sentence, not "kneed".
While composing this post, said irked poster sent me a further PM, to wit:
"That was my point, it appeared to me that you were replying to my post and I never said anything about luck only happening in nine ball."
Glad to see we now think alike.
Cheers!
Flex
9 ball call
Historical reason: yeah. 9 ball was invented during the great depression by black hustlers who wanted a FAST and exciting game to bet on. Rotation was too long with all 15 balls on the table and runouts were tough. Remember winner breaks is the original format where a good player could really shine by stacking racks, luck or whatever. A fun and exciting game. Lots of $$$$$$$$$ changing hands attracts players. Now we have TV versions with all the safties and alternate breaks.
bagofpaper said:
Historical reason: yeah. 9 ball was invented during the great depression by black hustlers who wanted a FAST and exciting game to bet on. Rotation was too long with all 15 balls on the table and runouts were tough. Remember winner breaks is the original format where a good player could really shine by stacking racks, luck or whatever. A fun and exciting game. Lots of $$$$$$$$$ changing hands attracts players. Now we have TV versions with all the safties and alternate breaks.
bagofpaper said:
i was just busting balls last night, seriously i paid my dues with longer hours than that playing pool years ago, for many years, then i retired, now i'm back.
the answere to that question comes with experience, i have played call pocket pool, straight pool, banks and one pocket are awawly call pocket, 8 ball can be either, i perfer it not to be call pocket.
9 ball is a fast game played at a high level you can string rack after rack if your good enough, usually at a B level or higher there isnt much slop anyways, so there isnt much need to play call pocket and the luck factor is part of the fun like the dice in backgammon compaired to chess with no dice.
sorry for busting your balls, i dont do that often. i wont anymore.
cheers
keep it level, no call shots in 8ball ok?
cuetechasaurus said:
A perfect post, but I'll just add that eliminating two-way shots takes a lot of skill out of the game. It is the multi-purpose shots that are the most interesting in nine ball.
For some reason, everybody that has ever suggested call shot nine ball lives in denial on the point that some of the skill and beauty of the game are removed.
sjm said:
I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule.
I proposed a call shot 9-ball rule set a week or so ago due to the constant arguments between the Pushout crowd and the Texas Express folks. Once you made your point, I completely agreed that I had overlooked the two-way shots. You guys are right; it just wouldn't work.That said, I say the 9-ball on the break shouldn't count as a win. That is probably the one rule that I think is completely useless. You can change that rule without the ripple effect you'd have with call-shot. There's no beauty, IMO, of a 9-ball flying in on the break. Yes, it evens out in the long run, but in a match you don't have a long run available. Even when I make the 9-ball on the break, I feel guilty about it. Rack your own, no 9-balls on the break, especially with short races and on crappy equipment where it takes forever to get a good rack.
MisterBanker said:
i think that format would make safeties to easy. i mean, instead of controlling two balls to play safe you just have to pick the ball before a problem ball and call safe and make that ball without getting shape (unless they make a rule where the ball you are hitting has to stay on the table during a safe or something, but that would really complicate things). 9 ball is fine with the luck factor. if you lose to someone it doesnt matter if they got lucky, the fault rests with the seller's lack of skill in leaving the player a shot that they could get lucky on (or any shot at all).
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I suspect that one of the reasons that 9-ball is suited for TV is because of the "surprise factor", in which a player in a tough situation surprises everyone with a shot no one imagined. A ball goes in from nowhere and the crowd wonders if the player planned the shot or got lucky. Calling the pocket would take that away since everyone would be looking for the proposed "solution".
Of course this is the bread and butter for the hustler. He can make skilled shots look like accidents.
Of course this is the bread and butter for the hustler. He can make skilled shots look like accidents.
black hustler
I dont expect any writing will support facts in this matter. Think of Chicago in 1932 and bars with pool tables. South Side. Then ask yourself a question: did Wyatt Earp invent 9 ball?Cuedog said:What is a "black hustler" and where can I find this enlightning historic fact in writing by a legitimate source?
Gene
Fatboy said:
lol Fatboy you always crack me up on here.. bust away all you want and thanks for the straight post!
Oh, and thanks to everyone who had time to respond..
I was simply asking "why" and not condoning one form of the game or the other. (And I can never get the search thing to work correctly! )
I was simply asking "why" and not condoning one form of the game or the other. (And I can never get the search thing to work correctly!
)
My personal point of view is to just leave the game as is. For the most part, if the skill level of the two players is considerably decent, then there won't be that much slop.
Also, several people mentioned that they would like the called shot so they don't lose to weaker players. What happens then, is the weaker players realize they have little chance in tournament play and quit coming to the tournaments. This then causes prize money to decrease, with the tournaments eventually drying up. Seen it happen several times.
Also, several people mentioned that they would like the called shot so they don't lose to weaker players. What happens then, is the weaker players realize they have little chance in tournament play and quit coming to the tournaments. This then causes prize money to decrease, with the tournaments eventually drying up. Seen it happen several times.
BINGO!! As Mosconi supposedly said, "Why should I play a game where my opponent can win on the break?" My guess is that the guys who really like the modern 9-ball rules are the same guys who believe they have a chance to beat the slot machines...smokeandapancak said:
Doc
Likes "Grady's rules"
I agree. The nineball should be spotted and the player pocketing the ball should still own the table. I don't see a basis for rewarding a player for pocketing the nine by giving the game to him/her. That person is as surprised it went in as everyone else is!Cuebacca said:...
That said, I say the 9-ball on the break shouldn't count as a win. That is probably the one rule that I think is completely useless. You can change that rule without the ripple effect you'd have with call-shot. There's no beauty, IMO, of a 9-ball flying in on the break. Yes, it evens out in the long run, but in a match you don't have a long run available. Even when I make the 9-ball on the break, I feel guilty about it. Rack your own, no 9-balls on the break, especially with short races and on crappy equipment where it takes forever to get a good rack.
I've only seen a couple of players that could send the nine towards one or the other of the bottom two holes consistently anyway. One was "Neptune" Joe Frady.
Gene
bagofpaper said:
I think it's because it stemmed from "Rotation", a game bangers could only play because they could ride the high point balls and slop counted. I don't think when 9 ball was invented they figured that some players would get as good as they did and run out as frequently as they do.
I like the rules the way they are, but prefer to see play on tight tables - at least as tight as diamond pros. This helps with the slop and stringing racks. I played a few weeks ago on a standard Gold Crown with fast rails and slop happened way too often - it was pretty ridiculous. If I had to play on that equipment, I would probably favor call shot too.
Chris
the only thing I dont like about spotting the 9 on the break is.
Say you make the 9 on the break, well you spot the 9ball, and the CB is behind another ball, so now not only did you have to spot the 9ball, when it should be consider'd a win, but you dont have a shot on the OB and you have to push out.
Or say you make the 9ball, plus another ball, but when you spot the 9ball, the CB, is behind the 9ball, so you dont have a open shot at the OB. Which I seen happen to Jeanette Lee before.
Say you make the 9 on the break, well you spot the 9ball, and the CB is behind another ball, so now not only did you have to spot the 9ball, when it should be consider'd a win, but you dont have a shot on the OB and you have to push out.
Or say you make the 9ball, plus another ball, but when you spot the 9ball, the CB, is behind the 9ball, so you dont have a open shot at the OB. Which I seen happen to Jeanette Lee before.
I think this sums it up
from:
http://www.9ballpool.com/history.htm
Up to the 1980's, the most popular form of pool was called 14.1 but many thought it a slow and boring game often with the predictable outcome of the best player winning with no chance for an underdog. So a new version was devised whereby the only ball that counted for anything was the 9 ball - hence the term 9 ball pool; this in turn meant that the outcome wouldn't be so obvious and any player could win - a new and exciting element which has contributed to 9 ball becoming one of the most popular and fastest growing sports in the world.
When you play 9 ball you take a chance. It is not a complete skill game. The whole idea is anyone can win.
from:
http://www.9ballpool.com/history.htm
Up to the 1980's, the most popular form of pool was called 14.1 but many thought it a slow and boring game often with the predictable outcome of the best player winning with no chance for an underdog. So a new version was devised whereby the only ball that counted for anything was the 9 ball - hence the term 9 ball pool; this in turn meant that the outcome wouldn't be so obvious and any player could win - a new and exciting element which has contributed to 9 ball becoming one of the most popular and fastest growing sports in the world.
When you play 9 ball you take a chance. It is not a complete skill game. The whole idea is anyone can win.