Why pay to recover table

[ShootingArts]

price of doing it yourself

The price of redoing a table can come in more than dollars. I was at the pool hall when a mechanic clipped a finger off. A finger or two or a blown back can make anything a mechanic charges seem mighty cheap!

Hard to find a good mechanic. Pretty doesn't necessarily mean good. Got to get recommendations and try some tables somebody has done to get an idea. As has been mentioned, recreational players may or may not recognize good work so their recommendations are questionable. A good chance somebody around has a good reputation and their name comes up every time you talk to hall and pub owners. Considering how long cloth lasts on a home table the charge for the best is likely to be way less than a dollar a day more than the cost of the cheapest mechanic you can find. You will put in a lot more time on a well covered table than a POS, a huge reason to go with the best.

You can do it yourself. If you do, you will probably redo it several times before you are happy with the outcome if you want it done right. Might be worth it if there is no good mechanic to be had. Anything you pay a jackleg is too much.

Hu

 

[KissedOut]

I am a real do it yourselfer. Last year I was quoted 30K to 60K for rear landscaping on my new house. I decided I would do it myself, not for the savings, but for the sense of accomplishment. It took me two months part time from ground breaking to finish. When I say I did it myself, I personally wrote and submitted the plans, dug 500 feet of irrigation trenches, laid the pipes and system, leveled the yard, hauled by hand and garden cart 20K pounds of block and pavers back there, moved 100 sacks of sand and 100 sacks of gravel, hauled and planted each bush and tree (except for one 20' ash) and gravel my hand, laid block, installed lighting, laid the pavers, picked each plant, hauled them in my wife's SUV, moved and spread 10 yards of bark, laid sod, built and installed a wired gas firepit. I did not hire labor. (except I had a concrete walkway contracted because that takes finish skills I don't have). My wife loves it, I love it.

When it comes to a pool table, I'll hire a mechanic. They can stretch the cloth and level it "just right". It's more skill than I care to acquire for the once every 5 year job. It's a skill that I respect and I have to be reminded of the results every time I play.

But I bet it does not make you sick if someone does their own table recovering and pays someone to do the landscaping. Because you are an enlightened person who understands that it is not a one-size-fits-all world and that YOUR choices on how to spend your time and energy should not determine what EVERYONE should do. Unlike the OP, who thinks everyone should do just as he does.

As to the provocateurs who come here just because they like to get RKC wound up, we should just pity people who have no better things to do with their lives than sit in from of a computer trying to think of clever thing to say and failing at that. Clearly actual ability and accomplishment really bother people like that.

 

[cleary]

Expensive? Not really. The Simonis on my table was installed in 1998 and doesn't warrant replacement.

Almost 20 years with the same cloth? Not sure how that's even possible.

 

[cleary]

You should learn to read. The OP was not defending doing his own table, he was criticizing everyone who had a mechanic do their table work.

The thread title:

" Why pay to recover table"

and the opening line:

"It makes me sick what people are paying to setup tables. . . "

make his agenda blindingly clear to anyone who reads it with a modicum of objectivity.

As is the hard-on you have for RKC. He may act a bit of an ass here but he has the redeeming quality that by all reports he is very very very good at what he does. What is YOUR redeeming quality?

lol This made me giggle. I have zero redeeming qualities and I'm very very very terrible at what I do.

And the worst part is, I never learned to read!

 

[K2Kraze]

The best of the best installer team locally in Fort Worth, TX (represented and employed by a home town brick and mortar billiard business for 65 years strong) runs right at $200 for labor plus the cost of the cloth if buying from them - approx $330 for Simonis. Many less expensive cloth types and brands area avail through them as well.

And I better add - that comes with an amazing customer satisfaction warranty that covers every possible issue one could have or expect or realize about recovering a table - not just an install and out the door thing. Service after the service I would call this.

Just sharing the "price" factor in our area since I saw a few comments and posts about pricing these days.


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[realkingcobra]

You should learn to read. The OP was not defending doing his own table, he was criticizing everyone who had a mechanic do their table work.

The thread title:

" Why pay to recover table"

and the opening line:

"It makes me sick what people are paying to setup tables. . . "

make his agenda blindingly clear to anyone who reads it with a modicum of objectivity.

As is the hard-on you have for RKC. He may act a bit of an ass here but he has the redeeming quality that by all reports he is very very very good at what he does. What is YOUR redeeming quality?

You understand exactly what my point of involvement was in this thread. Had the OP started this thread to show people what he did on his own pool table because he didn't feel he could spend his money paying someone in his area to set up and recover his table the right way, therefore he decided to do it on his own....I'd have sent him greenies' all the way, and told him he did a great job on his own.....but, that wasn't the case, and some members on here never seem to be able to understand what's really going on, they just see another opportunity to try and jump on my back, as always. Some even have to go way out of their way to tell me...."they'd NEVER hire me"....like they even have the option to do that. They completely fail to understand that I decide who's table I work on, as I have to many requests for work that it's impossible to help everyone, so I have to be the one that picks and chooses whose table I will work on next, and that decision has everything in the world to do with where I'm located at the time.

 

[realkingcobra]

The best of the best installer team locally in Fort Worth, TX (represented and employed by a home town brick and mortar billiard business for 65 years strong) runs right at $200 for labor plus the cost of the cloth if buying from them - approx $330 for Simonis. Many less expensive cloth types and brands area avail through them as well.

And I better add - that comes with an amazing customer satisfaction warranty that covers every possible issue one could have or expect or realize about recovering a table - not just an install and out the door thing. Service after the service I would call this.

Just sharing the "price" factor in our area since I saw a few comments and posts about pricing these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But, reality is its $350 in labor and $180 in cloth, so as in most cases, the prices are miss leading. A real pool table mechanic should defend their labor rate and sell the cloth at cost instead of quoting a hire price of the cloth in order to mask the extra profit.

 

[K2Kraze]

Hello, Glen -

I see your point, and I'll raise you another point worth consideration, sir...

IF someone were selling Simonis cloth from a retailer / store location that actually has the color and brand in stock that the customer wants to cover their own table (like a few of the boys on the forum seem to favor) then the price for a rolled and cut Simonis out the door is $330 plus tax. Reasonable by any stretch. Of course we know that people can order off the www for less just like anything else - however, those reasons we all know about. Reasonable profit margins is what keep brick and mortar stores alive and open, which is essential for many reasons.

So --- I agree with you from the labor pricing position that installation is REALLY worth more than $200 ---- closer to $350 you say.

But wait --- this same professional craftsman installer should "give away" the Simonis cloth for cost at $180? Come on now ---- you're selling yourself short.

Professionals don't NEED any excuses or reasons for their pricing. If YOU come to my home (which I would love to have you do by the way for my next mocha 860 install) then please charge me the $330 for the cloth PLUS whatever your labor rates are - the $350 you say. And I'll still take you out for the best damn steak in Texas afterward, not to mention a generous pour of a fine scotch if that's your wish

No "MASKING" extra profits here, Glen. Pricing differences between pro installers and store supported employee pro installers are two diff things.

Can we agree on that at least? Sir.

K.




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[Type79]

I appreciate the responses to the cost of installs in various areas, but I most want to hear from the OP who said "It makes me sick what people are paying to setup tables" to gauge his perspective.

 

[mvp]

I appreciate the responses to the cost of installs in various areas, but I most want to hear from the OP who said "It makes me sick what people are paying to setup tables" to gauge his perspective.

My gauge is the local store which is 200$ + cloth (retail) so price varys by selection of course. And my rant in the original post is not against what I would consider Master technicians! It's against these professional hack artist charging decent money when the work is sub standard! Where as I stand by my statements that an average handy guy can do better than the average installer! This went sideways when it got turned against master technicians!!! I wish people would relize that the almost all installers are hack artist, there is exceptions!!!!!!!!!! The average installer in my experience is a 20something working his way through college who could care less about table quality. I hate doing my own table but in my area I'm not about to fork over $500-600 when I can do better! If a Master tech can do better his prices and wait should be reflected into it.

So to the pro installers that got butt hurt by my post, if you don't compare your self to an average retail store installer then what are you *****en about? You clearly know you're better and adjust your prices accordingly. We really do need a list of certified installers by state! To avoid the hack artist! And like most people picked up on, I do think I'm better than MOST but not ALL installers, and if people are willing to pay for crappy work I can knock out a lot of average tables for decent money!

 

[Type79]

Not only a good answer but one that can apply across many trades.

 

[bad_hit]

But, I have to say this, it's up to you to ask the right questions to see if you're hiring someone that knows what they're doing, and I can't keep track of all the people that have called me for those questions to ask the mechanic FIRST before they hired them.

You're kidding right? Of course I did that and hired someone who was supposed to know what they were doing. I went to a billiard store with professional installers on staff and talked to the guy at length about what I wanted done, then paid him a bunch of money and he screwed it up bad. Was I supposed to ask him the same questions another table mechanic would have? THEN WHY WOULD I NEED HIM? I paid for a service that was delivered about as poorly as possible and now my dream of owning a pool table at home is crushed for now. Calling someone "stupid" on an Internet forum is pretty silly...but honestly you seem really stupid.

 

[realkingcobra]

Hello, Glen -

I see your point, and I'll raise you another point worth consideration, sir...

IF someone were selling Simonis cloth from a retailer / store location that actually has the color and brand in stock that the customer wants to cover their own table (like a few of the boys on the forum seem to favor) then the price for a rolled and cut Simonis out the door is $330 plus tax. Reasonable by any stretch. Of course we know that people can order off the www for less just like anything else - however, those reasons we all know about. Reasonable profit margins is what keep brick and mortar stores alive and open, which is essential for many reasons.

So --- I agree with you from the labor pricing position that installation is REALLY worth more than $200 ---- closer to $350 you say.

But wait --- this same professional craftsman installer should "give away" the Simonis cloth for cost at $180? Come on now ---- you're selling yourself short.

Professionals don't NEED any excuses or reasons for their pricing. If YOU come to my home (which I would love to have you do by the way for my next mocha 860 install) then please charge me the $330 for the cloth PLUS whatever your labor rates are - the $350 you say. And I'll still take you out for the best damn steak in Texas afterward, not to mention a generous pour of a fine scotch if that's your wish

No "MASKING" extra profits here, Glen. Pricing differences between pro installers and store supported employee pro installers are two diff things.

Can we agree on that at least? Sir.

K.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I look at it this way. If your business is buying and selling cloth, then by all means make a profit. But if your business is charging labor to work on pool tables, don't be shy about quoting your labor rate, be honest and up front about it, defend it even. BUT, a table mechanic is NOT in the business of selling cloth, THEY should be focused on their labor and NOT trying to hide behind the higher cost of cloth to make more profit or they're going to get called out on it. Example, customer calls table mechanic to get pricing. Gets told $200 labor and $330 cloth....he says ok great, but I've already bought the Simonis cloth, so you'll do the labor for $200 right? Mechanic responds, well....I'm all booked up so I can't do it right now.....because he knows he's not getting that extra $150 because the customer already has the cloth!!!.....and THAT'S what happens.

 

[justaplayer]

I hardly ever just change the cloth or a pool table, even though doing it comes with being paid to do so, so you have me mixed up with someone else.

Title of the thread is "Why pay to recover a pool table ". I don't have you confused with anybody, I know you are delusional.

Today I was in a conference with a room full of thoracic surgeons, Oncologists, Radiation Oncologists and Radilologists.....none were as egocentric as you. Get over yourself sir.

 

[realkingcobra]

You're kidding right? Of course I did that and hired someone who was supposed to know what they were doing. I went to a billiard store with professional installers on staff and talked to the guy at length about what I wanted done, then paid him a bunch of money and he screwed it up bad. Was I supposed to ask him the same questions another table mechanic would have? THEN WHY WOULD I NEED HIM? I paid for a service that was delivered about as poorly as possible and now my dream of owning a pool table at home is crushed for now. Calling someone "stupid" on an Internet forum is pretty silly...but honestly you seem really stupid.

I'm really stupid? I'm not the one who paid for bad service work, you were!

 

[bad_hit]

I'm really stupid? I'm not the one who paid for bad service work, you were!

Wow guy...you're absolutely right I left my crystal ball off. I should've known I would get screwed. My bad. Or maybe all that table glue has eaten all your useful brain cells.

Everyone who read this - you can do it yourself, there's no reason to pay anyone to do this. These guys are very close to full out scammers, don't be a sucker.

 

[pocket]

Wow guy...you're absolutely right I left my crystal ball off. I should've known I would get screwed. My bad. Or maybe all that table glue has eaten all your useful brain cells.

Everyone who read this - you can do it yourself, there's no reason to pay anyone to do this. These guys are very close to full out scammers, don't be a sucker.

Blanket statements are usually bad. "these guys". Sure you can cover your table yourself. You can rebuild your transmission yourself too.

I pay to have it done because the mechanic *should* have the experience and tools to do the job properly. Could I figure out how to do it just as well? Absolutely, I'd rather spend time with friends and family and on the table playing.

That said. I may take a stab at my table, because I don't have money to pay a pro. It wont be as good as a pro but it will save me some cash.

 

[tucson9ball]

Cmon guys, lighten up....
Realkingcobra, Glen, does great work and knows his stuff. He set up my Diamond Pro 9ft when it came from the factory in 2007.
Glen posts on here so others can learn from his knowledge. He may come off as a lil arrogant in his posts but I will tell you first hand, if you speak to him in person he is easy going.

As for the OP, I understand what you are saying... I myself do much of the work around my house because I want it done right. I've seen my table and other tables recovered a dozen times and I'm pretty confident that I could do it myself. I could probably do as good a job as the local dealer, but....can I do it as good as Glen or Zach that no all the lil tricks of all the problems? NOT!!! That's why I paid to have mine done, I want my table to be perfect.
If you can recover your own table and are happy with the way it plays, well then it's fine. It all boils down to personal preference.....

 

[SARDiver]

I ended up paying a great price for a real pro to work on my table. Swapped out my old cloth with Simonis 860HR and re-leveled everything.

I am not knowledgeable on the finer points of table set-up, but my bullshit detector is pretty good. This guy knew his stuff. My table is playing better than it ever has.

There is apparently a large degree of turnover amongst the guys who install tables for my local pool table dealer. They messed up the original install in 2002, to the point where little lines had formed at the slate seams. They re-installed a year or two later, and the table played okay.

There is no comparison to the job the guy I hired this Spring did. He was able to identify some shortcuts and sloppiness that I hadn't known about.

There is no way that I, a fairly handy guy, could have made the table play so true. It's the difference between pulling my tooth out to fix a problem, or going to the dentist to have it done painlessly and correctly.

 

[john coloccia]

I look at it this way. If your business is buying and selling cloth, then by all means make a profit. But if your business is charging labor to work on pool tables, don't be shy about quoting your labor rate, be honest and up front about it, defend it even. BUT, a table mechanic is NOT in the business of selling cloth, THEY should be focused on their labor and NOT trying to hide behind the higher cost of cloth to make more profit or they're going to get called out on it. Example, customer calls table mechanic to get pricing. Gets told $200 labor and $330 cloth....he says ok great, but I've already bought the Simonis cloth, so you'll do the labor for $200 right? Mechanic responds, well....I'm all booked up so I can't do it right now.....because he knows he's not getting that extra $150 because the customer already has the cloth!!!.....and THAT'S what happens.

I agree with this 100%. When I was doing guitar repairs, I always charged for my time, and materials were charged at my cost. Period. Simple. You want to bring your own strings? GREAT! I encourage that. Want to use my standard set? Great! You'll pay a lot less with me than buying them at the store. Whatever you want, I'm happy to do it because I'm not playing games with the invoice.

I've had this discussion with people and they wondered about why I didn't markup. The answer is simple. I'm not a retail store. I'm not in the business of selling product. I stock certain standard products as a courtesy to customers so they don't have to make multiple trips for basic supplies they might also need, but it's strictly a courtesy.

Hiding the labor cost in some markup is a pet peeve of mine. As a pro, I should get paid for my time and knowledge, and part of that knowledge is how to acquire supplies at better pricing than some guy off the street.