Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

[SLIM]

not even similar.

Food, as a requirement of human survival, is not purchased at restaurants. A restaurant is a social environment, much like pool is.

look in the yellow pages of your phone book & count the restaraunts.
look in the yellow pages of your phone book & count the pool halls.

pool halls are not the same as any other social gathering point.
pool halls have to attract customers pretty much with just pool.
adding drinking or food helps but, you are still trying to get customers with just one main attraction.
even a movie theater has the advantage of showing many different movies to attract a diverse customer base.

pool halls have one main thing to offer, pool.
and a big chunk of that customer base smokes.

SLIM

 

[StuartK35]

the smoking laws have been in effect here in my area (europe) since 1.5 years.

there are 2 pool halls i visit here in my area. one is 30 mins drive from here and is completely smoke-free and has a separate "smoking" ventilated room, and is a perfect solution imho. people go there whenever they wish to smoke. what's the big deal. you just walk 30 seconds and smoke there.

unfortunately the pool hall next to my place has made its' smoking area where 90% of the pool tables are - what an idiotic and careless idea by the owners must I say. go figure. it's technically illegal because the law here states that the smoking area must be only there for smoking and no other activities - that is technically - in reality the owners made the smoking area as 60% of entire capacity space , which is 90% of all pool tables. they don't care and are getting by. that is the sad reality.

This is very similar to the pool hall where I've been playing. It's a large room dedicated to smoking. The bar itself is 25,000 square feet....so on any given night you can only imagine how many people come into that room to smoke and then return to the other areas of the bar which are non-smoking. This room is not properly ventilated and is not legal.

(BTW-it is has gone non-smoking just recently and it's wonderful)

I'm all for having a separate room dedicated to folks who would prefer to smoke inside rather than having to go outside. I think the pool hall/ pool room should be a community room for all players to enjoy . If you can't afford to make arrangements for smokers to go elsewhere within your establishment then it's outside for them in my opinion. Of course I am a non-smoker.

 

[Fenwick]

That's straight from Germany in 1933 isn't it?

What a twisted little mind you have.

 

[Island Drive]

I am asking room owners what they are doing. I am asking enthusiasts what their local room is doing to appeal to the non-smoking demographic.

Good stuff from St. Louis, Northern Alabama, and New Zealand.

In CO, there takin' it outside in various ways, some pretty creative, with outside grilling and even TV's.

 

[OneIron]

pool halls have one main thing to offer, pool.
and a big chunk of that customer base smokes.

SLIM

Which I think is the point of the OP. Expand the pool demographic to the non smoking crowd and hopefully save the game by expanding the customer base.

 

[Underclocked]

Or leave the choice up to the business owner where it rightfully belongs.

 

[spktur]

Or leave the choice up to the business owner where it rightfully belongs.

I've made this argument many times, it's his property, his business and his investment to win or lose. An individual doesn't have the right to go the world over and have things there way all the time. But they do have a choice where they spend their money and can go somewhere else if they don't like a place. There are a lot of places I won't go to because I don't like the atmosphere or the people who hang out there. I don't ask them to change I just don't go along with them. It's like 'come to my house you will abide by my rules'. The owner has that right smoking or not, I really don't care which.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I've made this argument many times, it's his property, his business and his investment to win or lose. An individual doesn't have the right to go the world over and have things there way all the time. But they do have a choice where they spend their money and can go somewhere else if they don't like a place. There are a lot of places I won't go to because I don't like the atmosphere or the people who hang out there. I don't ask them to change I just don't go along with them. It's like 'come to my house you will abide by my rules'. The owner has that right smoking or not, I really don't care which.

I respectfully request that the politics be left out of this thread. That argument is over. The laws are here.

 

[Spider1]

Has one Applebees, TGI Fridays, or Hooters gone under due to smoking bans? So why would poeple think that the pool industry has been devasted by smoking bans?

This should be apparent, but: those are completely different types of businesses. People don't go to restaurants to hang out for hours. They go, eat, make some small talk, then split. Completely different situation than a bar. You might as well ask why smoking bans have not hurt church attendance or massage parlors.


P.S. your post on the previous page was wrong: bowling alleys are getting hurt right along with bars. Their own industry trade group, the BPAA has talked about this, as just one example.


Out of curiosity, how do people explain the bar/liquor trade groups being unanimously opposed to smoking bans, and always mobilizing cash to fight them every time they come up? Philanthropy? Tradition?

 

[thebigdog]

Food is a requirement of human survival.

Pool is not.

Plus, FWIW, the failure rate of restaurants across the nation is staggering.

And ...

21 APPLEBEE'S close. ---> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-03-21-applebeeclosings_N.htm

TGIFRIDAY'S are closing across the fruited plain ---> http://www.google.com/search?q=tgifridays+closes+stores&hl=en&source=hp&gbv=2&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1242l13354l0l13665l28l26l1l7l7l0l275l3603l0.7.11l18l0&oq=tgifridays+closes+stores&aq=f&aqi=&aql=

HOOTERS is facing a similar fate. ---> http://www.google.com/search?q=hoot...l18l0&oq=hooters+closes+stores&aq=f&aqi=&aql=

Blooming onions and chicken wings are not required for survival. These chains closing any stores has nothing to do with smoking bans and everything to do with shitty food.

 

[thebigdog]

Out of curiosity, how do people explain the bar/liquor trade groups being unanimously opposed to smoking bans, and always mobilizing cash to fight them every time they come up? Philanthropy? Tradition?

I'd say because they think they would come for them next.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Poolrooms have never been considered a stable kind of business. They come and go. What is more concerning than all the rooms closing is the fact that there are almost no new rooms opening. I have been consulted by prospective room owners many times over the decades. Smoking has always been a part of the poolroom culture. The smoking bans have added another element of risk to the business that many are not willing to take. A new successful template for a poolroom without tobacco needs to appear, and soon.

 

[Spider1]

I'd say because they think they would come for them next.

And why would that worry them?






Hint: trade groups exist to promote profit for their members.

 

[thebigdog]

And why would that worry them?






Hint: trade groups exist to promote profit for their members.

Well I know that since the smoking bans have gone in effect, smokers still leave their homes for entertainment no matter what anyone thinks. I come from a line of pool hall owners. My dad, uncle, and grandfather all owned poolrooms and I always thought I would open a room one day. I have changed my mind over th years and the reason has nothing to do with smoking bans. I won't do it because its too costly to rent or buy property in a decent area where people want to go out to. Sure serious players will go into seedy areas of town to shoot pool, but honestly pool players are the WORST customers and you cannot survive catering to them.

 

[krelldog]

In the room I play in buisness is down 70 percent since the smoking ban was implemented. The owner works another job to keep the room open hoping something will eventually change.

The interesting part of this whole situation is....I am a non-smoker. Before the smoking ban I went to smoke filled bars/pool rooms/bowling alleys-I didn't like it, but I dealt with it because I basically had no choice. I really wasn't accustomed to being in non-smoke filled public places so I had no idea what I was missing. Now that I have been in smoke free places for the last 3 years....there is no going back for me. If the smoking ban were dropped tommorow...I'm not going somewhere where I'm exposed to smoke.

I am however a firm believer in giving buisness owners a choice. If they want to allow their customers to smoke...they should have every right to let them. Ohio sold this law as a protection for the employees of buisnesses that allow smoking. What they didn't explain was that a large amount of these employees were not going to have jobs anymore.

We have 3 poolrooms left in the Cleveland area...in a 20 mile radius with 400,000 people. 2 of these rooms are on life support. The other one cheats and lets there patrons smoke. Who exactly did this law benefit?

 

[The Chinchilla]

In the room I play in buisness is down 70 percent since the smoking ban was implemented. The owner works another job to keep the room open hoping something will eventually change.

The interesting part of this whole situation is....I am a non-smoker. Before the smoking ban I went to smoke filled bars/pool rooms/bowling alleys-I didn't like it, but I dealt with it because I basically had no choice. I really wasn't accustomed to being in non-smoke filled public places so I had no idea what I was missing. Now that I have been in smoke free places for the last 3 years....there is no going back for me. If the smoking ban were dropped tommorow...I'm not going somewhere where I'm exposed to smoke.

I am however a firm believer in giving buisness owners a choice. If they want to allow their customers to smoke...they should have every right to let them. Ohio sold this law as a protection for the employees of buisnesses that allow smoking. What they didn't explain was that a large amount of these employees were not going to have jobs anymore.

We have 3 poolrooms left in the Cleveland area...in a 20 mile radius with 400,000 people. 2 of these rooms are on life support. The other one cheats and lets there patrons smoke. Who exactly did this law benefit?

Nice post. But wait, weren't you just saying that you benefited greatly by the non-smoking (even though you said you didn't agree with the bans).

I feel the same. To go back would be a nightmare, i'd do it if pressed. I personally disagree because I think smoking should be a crime, but it has been accepted only because we had no idea how much damage it caused when the product was first introduced. In other words, if cigs we invented today, and they researched their effects before putting them into production, they would not let them use in public (we dont even allow drinking in public, what the hell would be the big difference?? and smoking is worse, it can travel in the air, hello govt). How can you let people release toxic smoke in public with children etc? I dont get it? Well, I do get it, it is because it snowballed and we can't stop it. Smoking should only be allowed in people's homes, I have no idea where we get off letting people smoke in public with the current data on its effects, its all lobbying. This is all not even mentioning that it is a huge fire hazard.

 

[bender_lu]

when i see all those "health enthousiasts" here i cant imagine how it came that 60% of the USA suffer from overweight?! BAN MCDONALDS it has unhealthy food (and the children get it often enough, and you dont want to know whats in these burgers), BAN KFC, BAN ALCOHOL, BAN..... wait whats wrong? when i stop doing everything that is "not healthy" ill stop breathing (co2 and other toxics from cars in the air)

STOP BEING MORE CATHOLIC THEN THE POPE!!!

 

[slyfox]

I've bartended at a pool hall for a while now. The smoking ban for NC went into effect in January 2010. Initially non-smokers came out more, smokers didn't come in as much. After about a year business started getting back to normal. I don't think it affected the Raleigh area a great deal but definitely noticeable. Raleigh has a decent pool scene for the size of the city.

There was definitely a hit to the bar/ pool hall business for the first year, but I don't think it affected much past that.

I smoke. Trying to quit. Switching to the stupid e-cigarettes.

But I do like the smoking ban. What I don't like is the government's forcing business owners to adhere to it.

I do agree with the OP's point.

 

[StuartK35]

when i see all those "health enthousiasts" here i cant imagine how it came that 60% of the USA suffer from overweight?! BAN MCDONALDS it has unhealthy food (and the children get it often enough, and you dont want to know whats in these burgers), BAN KFC, BAN ALCOHOL, BAN..... wait whats wrong? when i stop doing everything that is "not healthy" ill stop breathing (co2 and other toxics from cars in the air)

STOP BEING MORE CATHOLIC THEN THE POPE!!!

Well, if you carried your McDonalds french fries into the pool hall I doubt people would be bothered by the smell...also, they wouldn't go home smelling like a potato....The only dangerous thing about second hand french fry smell is that everyone will want some of yours....and those fries are pretty darn good. Watch your back!

 

[Quesports]

Poolrooms have never been considered a stable kind of business. They come and go. What is more concerning than all the rooms closing is the fact that there are almost no new rooms opening. I have been consulted by prospective room owners many times over the decades. Smoking has always been a part of the poolroom culture. The smoking bans have added another element of risk to the business that many are not willing to take. A new successful template for a poolroom without tobacco needs to appear, and soon.

Great post Paul, I agee with it completely. I visited my Mom in the Tampa area a year ago and they allow smoking in the pool halls. What a stink, I could hardly stand it and really did not go out and play much because of the smoke. That being said it would be interesting to hear from a pool establishment owner there to get their opinion. Times are changing and finding a way to get folks in the door has to be a top priority.