Why pool is different !!!

[SJDinPHX]

Well Dick as Hawaiian Eye put it this isn't football, tennis or any other sport based on revolving turns. It is pool which as I said in my 1st post is a game that it is your inning until you foul, miss or play a safety. Or it least it was until all the Whiney Cats as you put whined enough until the formats changed, which changed the game & it's unique dynamics....

.....To watch that be changed by those that can't handle these unique pressures is like watching someone take something that has always been a part of me since I 1st fell in love with it as a child in my fathers hall & desecrate it. This is what drives my passionate opinions about it.

Nothing wrong with having "passionate opinions", but do they have to include making pool a completely different mindset than every other fair contest on the planet?..How is that 'desecrating' to the game

You might as well just take turns at seeing who can run the most racks, and forget about safeties, and intelligent manuevering, which are truly what makes pool unique from most other games..I have no problem with trying to create 'pressure' on your opponent, but you guys seem to be obsessed with it, as the 'only' way to determine who is the best (ie; smartest) player!

I would think you would be in favor of an alternating format, (including safety play) in order to best expose any weaknesses in your opponents game!..Maybe thats why you, and Mr. Eye, are so 'anti one pocket' when 1P has been proven to be the best gambling game of all!..It exposes ALL the wrong decisions, and poor shot choices very quickly!..Too bad it takes a lot of 'insider' knowledge to make the game more enjoyable to spectators..

PS..I wish there had been more people who thought like you did, during my career..I would have made Ronnie O'Sullivan look like a pauper!

 

[pooler]

(...) It is those dynamics & difference from other games that initially drew me to the game. I like the feeling that some refer to as "pressure". I thrive on it, revel in it & love applying it. Can I stand up to the heat of a large package being put on me as I sit cold in the chair & keep my composure & respond when it's my RIGHTFUL turn, after my opponent fouls, misses or plays a safety? I've always relished that challenge & thrill in it. Even more so the thrill of wondering and watching to see if my opponent can after I put it back on him? That is something that is unique to this game & this game only, which is why I chose this game over others & spent my life in it.(...)

Sir Colonel, Sir :wink:

Although I fully accept and respect your point of view I believe you are a little short sighted and immune to inevitable changes that generally come with the World progressing in its own, unstoppable way.

Let’s just take this example (as in a partial quote from your post above):

Running a package with winner break format is something you are accustomed to, etc.

However, would you agree with the opinion that with alternate break nothing really changes, except for one single detail: you still have to run a package against your opponent, only that it is divided into parts (with short breaks, during which your opponent is allowed to do the same against you).

After all, let’s say, if:
in a race to 9 you ran a pack of 9 (with short breaks in between each rack, during which your opponent managed only to run a pack of 7) you are still the winner.

It is exactly the same what you are used to, just presented differently to the World. World that, hopefully, is watching this particular fight.

And, believe me, that is what the World wants to watch nowadays.
Blow after blow, hit after hit, eye for an eye, etc.

You might say the dynamics changed, but consider carefully: how much of a change it really was, if you had looked at it with an open mind ?
Is it really that much different /winner breaks vs. alternate break/, so you must reject the latter without even giving it a thought ???

We can endlessly discuss what is wrong with pool, I am all for it, even if it is only for academic purposes :wink:.

Just, please, do not use the Whiney Cats /European Sissies – no, I find no reason to be offended :smile:/ argument for what indefinitely spoiled the heavenly utopia pool was once at, in the US.

It is rather a chicken-ish :wink: excuse for not being able to face the real World around us developing the way it has (it is, and will be).

With all respect,
Waldemar

 

[SJDinPHX]

Good to see there are others, like the previous poster, who realize that alternate break is not a 'death sentence' for pool!..It is simply the way the world functions, as old rules are replaced by more sensible ones..It happens in every sport/game that does not want to become mired in antiquated rules, that should have (as most have) been improved on years ago!

PS..Thankfully, most people think a pool player should not be reduced to a 'spectator', and should be given a timely chance to compete, like every other sport/game in the world!..Alternate break, is the only way I see to ensure that happens!..Thats what makes pool different from, say flipping a coin, or a spelling contest!

 

[KissedOut]

You like your rules, we like ours. Pool isn't football, nor baseball, nor soccer...pool is pool.

I think everyone should get a chance to shoot at least once during a set. If the breaker runs X number of games and the set and their opponent doesn't get to shoot, then give the opponent a break and he has the opportunity to match the run. As soon as he misses, the set is over if he doesn't match the run. If he matches it, then they play a tie breaker.

Something along these lines is what happens in top 3 cushion events. If the player who shot first reaches the target number of points (say, 40) then he stops shooting, they re-set the break shot configuration and the second player shoots until he ties the game or misses. If he misses before he ties the game he loses. If he ties the game they do a shoot-out with one inning tie-breakers, each starting from the break position.

In last year's finals of the World Championship Dong Koong Kang got to 40 when Blomdah, was only at 33. Blomdahl ran the necessary 7 off the break configuration and then beat Kang in the shoot-out.

 

[sbpoolleague]

Golf has a universally-accepted handicap system. We MUST do this with pool.

We are 25% of the way there with Fargo Ratings. I say 25% because Fargo Ratings are not universally accepted. They should be. THE #1 BEST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO POOL is to have Fargo Ratings incorporated into the APA. If the APA starts recognizing FargoRate, then everyone will.

Someone needs to come up with a way that the APA can maintain their proprietary Equalizer system AND incorporate Fargo Ratings. And the folks at FargoRate should think of a way (if they haven't already) to input APA points matches (eg 9-ball) into their formula.

I see this as two sides scratching each others backs. A universally-accepted handicap system helps everyone in the game of pool because it generates interest and brings new players into the sport. New players thrive in the APA system, and when they get good enough the can graduate into higher-level competitive leagues.

I see a future where every pool room will have a FargoRate computer terminal whereby players can input match results. To be in the system, players will pay one yearly fee, and this fee would be bundled into a league fee or paid separately. In order to compete in ANY tournament, local, regional, state, national, or international, a player not only needs a Fargo Rating but that rating must also be robust (love that word, Mike Page).

I also see a future where FargoRate will be expanded to cover handicapping of all major pool games, 14.1 Continuous, 1-Pocket, Snooker, and maybe even 3-Cushion Billiards.

All the powers that be should remove their selfish, money-for-me-first hats for a moment and realize that a universally-accepted handicap system will enhance the sport, create interest, and in the end enable everyone to have more fun playing pool and enable all pool businesses to make more money.

 

[Danimal]

To the OP, I think you mean to substitute "individual" and "team" for "competitive" and "non-competitive." Just because golf pros are playing against the course doesn't mean that they are not competitive nor are they not trying to make it under the "cut" for a given tournament. I understand what you are saying, however, and I agree with your point.

Snooker, aside from being a great, classic game coupled with a loyal following and tradition, also benefits from the fact that you can legally wager on it. If pool could find a way to follow same (and avoid match fixing and shenanigans), it would enjoy a boost as well.

In a few months there will be a Supreme Court hearing in NJ that will shape the future of online sports wagering for the state. I'm interested what the outcome will be and if it succeeds, what it can mean for the game of pool.

Just to follow up on this, the State of New Jersey (despite the call for supplication from the struggling casino industry) voted down the recent referendum that would have overturned the ban on sports wagering.

The State decided that it should be left up to Congress in order to overturn the federal rules prohibiting legal betting on sporting games.

Nevada remains as the only state in the nation exempt from this law.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I will try to keep this observation as brief as possible, but it won't be easy. I have a lot of spare time these days, so I hope you find it interesting. We all share a love for the various games of pool, or else why would we be here? First, let me break down the obvious differences between pool, (regardless of a particular game) and every other sport/game played anywhere in the world.

Games only come in two varieties..competitive, and non-competitive, and we all know the difference. Games/sports that are physically competitive include, football, baseball, basketball, tennis, etc. Games/sports that are non-competitive, are golf, bowling, darts, and of course pool. These games are only reliant on how you, yourself perform. Your opponent(s) have no control over anything you do, or fail to do.

The game of pool is unique, in that there is some control over the mix of defense and offense, that will effect the outcome most of the time. Like any game played with round (or oblong) balls..rolls or bounces, may quite often determine the outcome. No way to ever change that.

The point I am trying to make, is that is why we were attracted to the game in the first place. It is very difficult to become proficient at it, without investing a lot of time and practice. This is the challenge that attracted us to pool. We don't have to be physically bigger, or stronger, to prevail..we just have to be smarter, and play better than our opponent(s).

The one big problem with our game, is the fact that we have too many different games, rules, table sizes etc. It almost takes a written contract before play can commence. By far, the most popular and accepted game is 8ball. Other games may require more skill, but specializing in them opens yet another can of worms, when it comes to matching up. or tournaments.

I guess the message I am trying to convey, is this. In order to bring pool out of the doldrums, we need to do as the Brit's have done with snooker. Their success is obvious. There is only one game, one set of rules, and one size table. We also have NO much needed governing body. The BCA is a farce!

Until we find a way to present an exciting, interesting product for the viewing public, pool is destined to languish as an 'also ran' in popularity, even though millions enjoy it every day. If you recall, Mike Sigel advised the con man Trudeau, to use 8ball as his single game for the IPT, and he at least got pool noticed.

I think one pocket, is the best game played on a pool table. But, I am realistic enough to know, it will never be a popular spectator game. So what the heck, there are a lot worse games than 8ball..and everyone, especially 'Joe Six-pack', already knows how its played!

If we haven't already ruined our chances, by some questionable poor decisions, (ie; dumps etc.) maybe there is still time to bring some quality, high dollar sponsors into pool..Lets hope so!

I've changed my mind: Pool is fxxxxd! Our only hope is that the industry as a whole goes bankrupt and leaves the game alone, because it has to be rebuilt from the ground up. As long as the industry (table manufacturers etc) is calling the shots, it will go from bad to worse. Everything that has happened for the last 50 or so years have been for the worst of pool.

1. Smaller tables.
2. Alternate break
3. 7 ball, bonus ball and all those crappy games.
4. Various corrupt leagues run by con men...
5. Game fixers
6. Gimmick equipment
7. NO RULE CONSISTENCY

Pool isn't different from other sports. It's no sport at all. There is no standard equipment, no standard rules, no standards at all. Just a random gathering of aging men doing whatever the hell they feel like. There is nothing wrong with that, but it cannot be compared to a proper sport. It's like some guys holding a world championship in beer drinking. Sure, when you hear about it, it's mildly amusing (to some), but then they get all serious and it becomes sad, very, very sad. I actually think that pool could be a sport, but basically you'd have to let everyone die of natural (or not so natural) causes and start all over, because the corruption and incompetence is endemic and epidemic in pool.

It becomes especially sad, when the so called governing bodies of pool tries to pass themselves off as that. It's nothing like anything that exists in any other sport. In the last years the breaking rules on the Eurotour and various national leagues (as an example) have changed over and over again. It's become a complete joke! Minor rule tweaks are common in all sports, but the break is maybe the most important shot of all, and they are changing it over and over again. Wtf is that supposed to be? The Eurotour is supposed to be the most professional league of all, and even they haven't got a clue.

In the US the situation is even worse. If someone is holding a 9 ball competition, you have no idea what the hell is going to take place. What size is the table, where can you break from, can you win by making the 9 ball on the break and if so in which pockets does it count, will it actually be call-shot? The list of questions go on and on. Then some sore losers got beaten by a lucky shot, and they invented 10 ball. That game is even worse, because every time some guy gets a bad roll, they change the rules. If you read the 10 ball rules, you can almost hear the whines of the people that wrote them.

Pool had a chance with the IPT. As sad as it is, that was the best attempt at trying to make pool a sport that has been made since ww2. It failed (maybe even by design), but it shows just how tricky the job is going to be for anyone trying something big like that again. It may be impossible by this point. IPT imo made all the right choices for the game, the equipment and the rules. The only thing wrong was the guy running it. TV was the one vehicle that could elevate the sport, but now that medium is dying, and there is no real chance. We are a fringe activity in competition with millions of others and have no chance of making the big time. No reason to suck up to tv and table manufacturers etc now. We can call our own shots, because nobody is going to give us anything worth having anymore. We don't have to accept their kiddie tables and retina scarring ball sets anymore. Neither do we have to live with rules that were designed to hold the attention of tv viewers with ADD. We can make our own, sensible rules and then stick to them. I think the best choice would be to get all the top players gathered and have a rules conference of some sort (even over the internet), and start from there.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I will try to keep this observation as brief as possible, but it won't be easy. I have a lot of spare time these days, so I hope you find it interesting. We all share a love for the various games of pool, or else why would we be here? First, let me break down the obvious differences between pool, (regardless of a particular game) and every other sport/game played anywhere in the world.

Games only come in two varieties..competitive, and non-competitive, and we all know the difference. Games/sports that are physically competitive include, football, baseball, basketball, tennis, etc. Games/sports that are non-competitive, are golf, bowling, darts, and of course pool. These games are only reliant on how you, yourself perform. Your opponent(s) have no control over anything you do, or fail to do.

The game of pool is unique, in that there is some control over the mix of defense and offense, that will effect the outcome most of the time. Like any game played with round (or oblong) balls..rolls or bounces, may quite often determine the outcome. No way to ever change that.

The point I am trying to make, is that is why we were attracted to the game in the first place. It is very difficult to become proficient at it, without investing a lot of time and practice. This is the challenge that attracted us to pool. We don't have to be physically bigger, or stronger, to prevail..we just have to be smarter, and play better than our opponent(s).

The one big problem with our game, is the fact that we have too many different games, rules, table sizes etc. It almost takes a written contract before play can commence. By far, the most popular and accepted game is 8ball. Other games may require more skill, but specializing in them opens yet another can of worms, when it comes to matching up. or tournaments.

I guess the message I am trying to convey, is this. In order to bring pool out of the doldrums, we need to do as the Brit's have done with snooker. Their success is obvious. There is only one game, one set of rules, and one size table. We also have NO much needed governing body. The BCA is a farce!

Until we find a way to present an exciting, interesting product for the viewing public, pool is destined to languish as an 'also ran' in popularity, even though millions enjoy it every day. If you recall, Mike Sigel advised the con man Trudeau, to use 8ball as his single game for the IPT, and he at least got pool noticed.

I think one pocket, is the best game played on a pool table. But, I am realistic enough to know, it will never be a popular spectator game. So what the heck, there are a lot worse games than 8ball..and everyone, especially 'Joe Six-pack', already knows how its played!

If we haven't already ruined our chances, by some questionable poor decisions, (ie; dumps etc.) maybe there is still time to bring some quality, high dollar sponsors into pool..Lets hope so!

SanJoseDick speaks truth, no BS, and put a lot of thought into his post. But people do truth so they believe in dreams and make believe.

Maybe that is why so many doctors make lots of money pumping kemotherapy into dying patient selling they on the idea of more life, quality life, or cure. When many of the patients will die no matter medicine does. I often wonder how well Oncoligists sleep at night. I would not sleep with these facts on my mine, maybe it is because I have something many doctors do not have. Scruples.

The IPT (that disaster of Mike Seigel & Tradue) was the biggest shot in the back for Pool. It was one of many frescos that give the word POOL a bad name.

If the B.C.A., was really as big as they pretend to be they world not only take money for membership, sponsorship. Without guaranteeing ever player to be paid in full in ever tournament or event that was run under the umbrella of the B.C.A.

Ever hear of a Pro Golfer getting stiff with a rubber check or no check at a PGA Event. Doesn't happen.

Maybe Pool need to remodel its house.

Nice post SJD.