I wasn't following pro pool back then. What's the UIGEA and what's that part of the story? thanks.
Why pool is dying.
- Thread starter Bob Callahan
- Start date
I wasn't following pro pool back then. What's the UIGEA and what's that part of the story? thanks.
Pool
Pool is not dying, but it is changing. Pool rooms going bust because their owners failed to recognize the changes going on in the sport. I have played for 50 years, and have seen from no tournaments except pro ones, hustling back in the day was prevalent, to leagues getting strong during the 80's, and more and more amateur tournaments being held.
Computers and video games are 2 of the reasons that Pool seems to be dying out. The young kids spend their time doing things electronically. Me, I always preferred Pinball machines to video games. Kids today try Pool at some point in their life, find out it is not as easy as they think it is, so they just do it now and then.
There are a few though that see it as challenging, and want to become good at it, and these are the ones that end up joining leagues, or strive to become a player, and not just a banger. When you become good, you get recognition, your status so to speak is elevated in certain circles, and you get a certain amount of respect.
I think Regional tournaments are stronger than ever. The Pros world has changed, it used to all be brought to them, and now it isn't, and now they need to work to promote their world more. As far as a pro tour, one only has to look to the National Economy, and the job situation. Companies are laying off people right and left, and there is simply not the money floating around like there used to be. If the Economy recovers, so will Pool.
Pool is not dying, but it is changing. Pool rooms going bust because their owners failed to recognize the changes going on in the sport. I have played for 50 years, and have seen from no tournaments except pro ones, hustling back in the day was prevalent, to leagues getting strong during the 80's, and more and more amateur tournaments being held.
Computers and video games are 2 of the reasons that Pool seems to be dying out. The young kids spend their time doing things electronically. Me, I always preferred Pinball machines to video games. Kids today try Pool at some point in their life, find out it is not as easy as they think it is, so they just do it now and then.
There are a few though that see it as challenging, and want to become good at it, and these are the ones that end up joining leagues, or strive to become a player, and not just a banger. When you become good, you get recognition, your status so to speak is elevated in certain circles, and you get a certain amount of respect.
I think Regional tournaments are stronger than ever. The Pros world has changed, it used to all be brought to them, and now it isn't, and now they need to work to promote their world more. As far as a pro tour, one only has to look to the National Economy, and the job situation. Companies are laying off people right and left, and there is simply not the money floating around like there used to be. If the Economy recovers, so will Pool.
Everything dies baby thats a fact, but everything that dies some day comes back.
-Grey Ghost
For sure! I can't believe the young'ns are wearing tie-dyed T-shirts and bell-bottomed jeans today.
How ya' doing, Greyghost? Long time no read! :smile:
I have one of these in my attic. Peace! :grin:
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The IPT didn't kill pool, but at the time of that writing of the article, there was a lot of online scuttlebutt about the IPT. If you were to ask some of the players, even those that had to wait to get paid, they have nothing but good words to say about the IPT.
Some players came out of the woodwork, who had since quit pool, to get a chance to compete for "real money, real rules, and real pool." Scotty Townsend, Dave Matlock, James Walden, Jon Kuchero, and Dee Adkins come to mind. :wink:
Heck, Dave Matlock told me in July 2006 in Vegas that he won enough money shooting pool in the IPT to put a down payment on a house.
The green room for the players made them feel special, with a buffet of food, snacks, and bottled water. They gave out *FREE* Fiji water at the IPT events -- FREE! -- to the attendees and competitors.
Say what you want about Kevin Trudeau and the IPT, but the only thing I have to say is here's a man who tried to make something happen positive for pool. Was he trying to profit? You betcha. Who in their right mind would pour several million dollars into a venture without wanting to profit? And for all of his efforts, you have a few folks out there who continue to badmouth him as if he's a pariah. Well, I vehemently disagree.
Pool will never see another IPT tour in my lifetime. I am sad that it didn't work. I applaud Kevin Trudeau for his efforts and thank him for the experience, as do many, many of the players who got the chance to compete on the IPT tour. I'm sure those BCA Hall of Famers who were gifted $30,000 as an appearance fee to show up in Orlando in December 2005 think Kevin Trudeau is a good guy. $30,000 just for showing up, plus getting three byes in the King of the Hill Tournament.
$30,000 is the money payout for first place in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, and do you know how hard it is for a player to pocket that $30,000 at the Open by coming in first place? Each one of the BCA Hall of Famers was given a free gift of $30,000. The only thing they had to do is show up in Orlando and shoot a little pool, and if they got lucky with their three byes, by George, they could have brought home more than $30,000.
Francisco Bustamante told me in Orlando at the King of the Hill Tournament that coming in third place, it was the most money he's ever won in any tournament in his lifetime.
Pool is dying a slow and ugly death in the United States, but it ain't because of the IPT or Kevin Trudeau. Pool is cruel to its own in America. If the American pool culture thinks pros are "scum of the earth" or "bums with no jobs," as stated numerous times on this very pool forum, it speaks for itself why pool can't get one tire out of the sand. :frown:
The Starship stage the IPT afforded the players for the TV matches was beautiful. I'll never forget it, and I'm glad I got the opportunity to experience it.
Some players came out of the woodwork, who had since quit pool, to get a chance to compete for "real money, real rules, and real pool." Scotty Townsend, Dave Matlock, James Walden, Jon Kuchero, and Dee Adkins come to mind. :wink:
Heck, Dave Matlock told me in July 2006 in Vegas that he won enough money shooting pool in the IPT to put a down payment on a house.
The green room for the players made them feel special, with a buffet of food, snacks, and bottled water. They gave out *FREE* Fiji water at the IPT events -- FREE! -- to the attendees and competitors.
Say what you want about Kevin Trudeau and the IPT, but the only thing I have to say is here's a man who tried to make something happen positive for pool. Was he trying to profit? You betcha. Who in their right mind would pour several million dollars into a venture without wanting to profit? And for all of his efforts, you have a few folks out there who continue to badmouth him as if he's a pariah. Well, I vehemently disagree.
Pool will never see another IPT tour in my lifetime. I am sad that it didn't work. I applaud Kevin Trudeau for his efforts and thank him for the experience, as do many, many of the players who got the chance to compete on the IPT tour. I'm sure those BCA Hall of Famers who were gifted $30,000 as an appearance fee to show up in Orlando in December 2005 think Kevin Trudeau is a good guy. $30,000 just for showing up, plus getting three byes in the King of the Hill Tournament.
$30,000 is the money payout for first place in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, and do you know how hard it is for a player to pocket that $30,000 at the Open by coming in first place? Each one of the BCA Hall of Famers was given a free gift of $30,000. The only thing they had to do is show up in Orlando and shoot a little pool, and if they got lucky with their three byes, by George, they could have brought home more than $30,000.
Francisco Bustamante told me in Orlando at the King of the Hill Tournament that coming in third place, it was the most money he's ever won in any tournament in his lifetime.
Pool is dying a slow and ugly death in the United States, but it ain't because of the IPT or Kevin Trudeau. Pool is cruel to its own in America. If the American pool culture thinks pros are "scum of the earth" or "bums with no jobs," as stated numerous times on this very pool forum, it speaks for itself why pool can't get one tire out of the sand. :frown:
The Starship stage the IPT afforded the players for the TV matches was beautiful. I'll never forget it, and I'm glad I got the opportunity to experience it.
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Look at the top 30 men for each year and their winnings. 2006 was the peak.
When KT and the IPT folded everything went back to ONE guy making 100k and everyone else working for scraps.
Pool has been hurt mostly by stagnant wages and less disposable income. Oh..and 999 other reasons found in the threads of AZB. KT didn't fix pool but at least he gave it a shot. It was the most exciting thing going before it hit the fan.
Good article but don't agree with it all. One thing is for sure. The "Does anyone know who THIS GUY is???" threads that keep popping up on AZB have pretty much killed most road players action. Unless you're a master of disguise.
When KT and the IPT folded everything went back to ONE guy making 100k and everyone else working for scraps.
Pool has been hurt mostly by stagnant wages and less disposable income. Oh..and 999 other reasons found in the threads of AZB. KT didn't fix pool but at least he gave it a shot. It was the most exciting thing going before it hit the fan.
Good article but don't agree with it all. One thing is for sure. The "Does anyone know who THIS GUY is???" threads that keep popping up on AZB have pretty much killed most road players action. Unless you're a master of disguise.
I don't know why some would view professional pool players in that way. To me, it is just like pro football or baseball players. I think if it were viewed the way other sports were, maybe it would have a chance. I know many think it is not an exciting spectator sport, but if competitions were held at beautiful venues like that picture, I'm sure it would be much more exciting. Although I don't watch American football much, the excitement level would not be the same if it was played an an ordinary park instead of a stadium. It all needs something to get the crowd going and makes it profitable. Maybe the IPT's goal was something like this, I don't know. I don't mind it how it is now; in fact, I really like how simple it is. However, nowadays, in order to attract an audience (and big company sponsors) other than people who are already billiard players, I think there has to be a little more... 'something'. Other popular sports get big funds from companies that invest in them such as insurance and big fast food chains. The only sponsors I see for billiards are cue companies and the like, all tied to the actual sport in some way or another. I'm not sure how 'outside' investors would change the sport though... and I will admit I'm not sure if I would personally like it if it changed too much...Pool is dying a slow and ugly death in the United States, but it ain't because of the IPT or Kevin Trudeau. Pool is cruel to its own in America. If the American pool culture thinks pros are "scum of the earth" or "bums with no jobs," as stated numerous times on this very pool forum, it speaks for itself why pool can't get one tire out of the sand. :frown:
The Starship stage the IPT afforded the players for the TV matches was beautiful. I'll never forget it, and I'm glad I got the opportunity to experience it.
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Believe me, it all depends on what part of the country you are in. That's why I wrote my first post as I did.
OK, I googled "UIGEA" and found this article on Wikipedia.
Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006
I can surmise the rest.
thanks
Bingo.
The article is about the death of hustling, and yet sadly, the obituary remains unwritten and the public believes hustling to be alive and well. That's because on that rare occasion that pool finds the mainstream media (the last such event being "The Color of Money"), the game is portrayed as a seedy pursuit in which players focus on preying on unsupecting victims.
I think the IPT, for all of its problems and all of its unsavory practices, did have a role in killing the world of hustling, but only because it caused a lot of lesser known regional hustlers to show their speed. I think for this we owe the IPT a debt of gratitude.
As you suggest, pool is dying because it cannot, and seemingly doesn't see any particular reason to, escape its negative image.
Tell a non-pool player that you're a serious pool player and their first instinct will be to ask whether you are a hustler. Until that's not the case, our game will be viewed as a seedy and underhanded pursuit. Those of us close to the game know that this is not the case, and know that this image is undeserved, but pool does more to reinforce this negative image than to refute it.
Pool isn't dead, but hustling is dead, and we should be dancing on its grave.
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I don't hink pool is dead. I think it is going through changes, just like everything else in this world.
I think the big fallout from that was Ad dollars and sponsors. The IPT was sponsored by PartyPoker and when laws passed against those companies running their sites and where they can run ads, it killed things. Same thing happened with the Camel tour I think, you can't have ads for tobacco in places where minors could see them, and there goes that support.
I play in various pool leagues. In talking with non-poolplayers during casual conversation about my poolplaying, I cannot count on my fingers and toes how many times I've been asked if I was a hustler. Pool does have a negative image. I won't argue that point. But, I do not believe that pool is dying. I just believe the demographics of pool are changing (i.e. more leagues, local tournaments, less "professional" emphasis).
Maniac
Why do you need hustling for a sport to be alive?
I think pool is dying, ...I for one, don't even want to teach the craft to my 15 yr old son...the craft I spent 25 yrs studying and perfecting. Why?
Cause nothing good will come out of him hanging around in pool halls, today, there's drugs, lots of drinking, betting, people hustling all night for gas money..........
How many of you would want that life for your own child?
The simple answer is, the sport is boring to watch. Most people are bored and would turn the channel. We need to get people involved. Make it exciting. Get money flowing into the sport from advertising. Pay the players well like we do for other sports. Take the video games out of the pool halls, create jobs in the industry that a person can actually feed a family with.
Where in the pool industry can you actually make a really good living?
Pro player...nope
Tourney director...nope
League owner...nope
Cue maker...nope
Pool room owner...nope
Cue sales...nope
Hustler...nope
And I want my son getting into his sport why? With a college degree and a LOT of hard work, he can make a couple hundred thousand a year, I don't know who makes that in anything related to pool.
Just my thoughts.
I think pool is dying, ...I for one, don't even want to teach the craft to my 15 yr old son...the craft I spent 25 yrs studying and perfecting. Why?
Cause nothing good will come out of him hanging around in pool halls, today, there's drugs, lots of drinking, betting, people hustling all night for gas money..........
How many of you would want that life for your own child?
The simple answer is, the sport is boring to watch. Most people are bored and would turn the channel. We need to get people involved. Make it exciting. Get money flowing into the sport from advertising. Pay the players well like we do for other sports. Take the video games out of the pool halls, create jobs in the industry that a person can actually feed a family with.
Where in the pool industry can you actually make a really good living?
Pro player...nope
Tourney director...nope
League owner...nope
Cue maker...nope
Pool room owner...nope
Cue sales...nope
Hustler...nope
And I want my son getting into his sport why? With a college degree and a LOT of hard work, he can make a couple hundred thousand a year, I don't know who makes that in anything related to pool.
Just my thoughts.
Times have changed and there is a lot more to do. I have spent most of my life in pool rooms as owner and patron and today, I hardly go anymore. At least not to just hang around, I have too many other things to do. For a new player who already has many interests in their lives, hanging in a pool room all night probably seems insane. The game is still fun but we all have more in our lives now. Like my father used to always say, "Nothing is forever". The game of pool in it's many forms is certainly fun to play, but just wasting time in pool rooms is not much fun anymore really.
seeded events
To me the push towards seeded pro events is desperation. desperation for the few full time traveling pros who want more than their lions share. It will kill the future of pro pool. Up and coming players should not be placed at a disadvantage from the draw. what would save higher level pool would be to tap into the thousands of advanced amateurs who would matchup when given events that encourage participation like the Derby city and SBC.
To me the push towards seeded pro events is desperation. desperation for the few full time traveling pros who want more than their lions share. It will kill the future of pro pool. Up and coming players should not be placed at a disadvantage from the draw. what would save higher level pool would be to tap into the thousands of advanced amateurs who would matchup when given events that encourage participation like the Derby city and SBC.
Okay, but I've also met some of the seediest and low life forms I've ever known.
The game became unfriendly to children and that to me is the death of the game. I remember having a hard time when I was 14 -15 trying to get into pool halls to play or practice. Forget marketing to kids and encouraging them, it actively dissuades children and builds blockades to keep children out.
There aren't any youth pool organizations that encourage juniors and teach life lessons for parents to put their kids in.
If you are expected to start at the age of 18 or 21 and become very good you are likely not going to be spending those years continuing your education or getting a career started. It isn't setup as a collegiate game/sport and just doesn't do anything to promote a good productive lifestyle if the game doesn't workout or after your career is over.
No billiards scholarships, no youth outreach and a lack of access to the game for youths, it's not really any wonder that the game hasn't flourished.
Nail on the head!