Why pool struggles

pooltchr

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
Imagine a pro golfer missing putts on purpose, in order to keep his ranking down.

Imagine a pro bowler missing a couple of pins each frame so nobody would know how good he was.

Imagine a quarterback tossing a couple of interceptions to keep his quarterback rating down.

Imagine a pitcher intentionally missing the box just a little bit, so his team wouldn't move up too far in the standings.

Imagine any athlete in any sport holding back and not giving their best performance every time they get in competition.

Now, imagine if pool players actually tried to play their best game every time they are at the table.

Steve
 
answer!!!

pooltchr said:
Imagine a pro golfer missing putts on purpose, in order to keep his ranking down.

Imagine a pro bowler missing a couple of pins each frame so nobody would know how good he was.

Imagine a quarterback tossing a couple of interceptions to keep his quarterback rating down.

Imagine a pitcher intentionally missing the box just a little bit, so his team wouldn't move up too far in the standings.

Imagine any athlete in any sport holding back and not giving their best performance every time they get in competition.

Now, imagine if pool players actually tried to play their best game every time they are at the table.

Steve
Click to expand...

DONT PLAY LEAGUE POOL !!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:
 
but...

...I think it does happen in bowling and golf.....it's called sandbagging and hustling too....
 
pooltchr said:
Imagine a pro golfer missing putts on purpose, in order to keep his ranking down.

Imagine a pro bowler missing a couple of pins each frame so nobody would know how good he was.

Imagine a quarterback tossing a couple of interceptions to keep his quarterback rating down.

Imagine a pitcher intentionally missing the box just a little bit, so his team wouldn't move up too far in the standings.

Imagine any athlete in any sport holding back and not giving their best performance every time they get in competition.

Now, imagine if pool players actually tried to play their best game every time they are at the table.

Steve
Click to expand...


Imagine first place at the US OPEN was a million dollars I promise every pro would give it their all. Different circumstances require different responses to survive. Pool struggles because it lacks sponsorship plain and simple. All the pro's would act the part if they were properly rewarded for their effort.


Imagine practicing 10 plus hours a day for half your life and you can't afford an apartment or a car.

Imagine always having to have people put you in box because you can't work and keep your game at a level to compete with people from other countries who train all day to beat you.

Imagine dedicating your whole life to something because you love it and are great at it to find out all of your work was for a dead end.

Imagine we stopped blaming pool players for the demise of the sport when in reality it is simple, sponsor don't back the sport because they don't see an ROI. Until someone shows them a productive ROI pool will remain a fringe sport that people struggle to survive in, unless you are brilliant like Janette or superman or woman like Mika, SVB or Allison.

Imagine televison invested in pool like golf and had ten cameras at the US Open and did it live and went from table to table as great shots happened with no long breaks so people didn't get board. The cameras would always be going and they would catch all the great shots and not just one match. The key to golf is they don't follow two people around all day they have cameras all over catching all the great shots.


I imagine someone who taught pool would be a bit more gracious and understanding to the struggling pool player.
 
I said it before and I still believe this. As a former room owner, I spent a good amount of time peering out into the room watching the people playing. Here is was I observed.

Couples come in and they are embarrassed that someone would see them trying to hold a cue stick.

Frustration setting in minutes after attempting to play.

They are uncomfortable not knowing even where to stand between shots.

The bangers are only held to interest if they are drinking an making noise and fools of themselves.

In short, the game is far to difficult and complicated for the average person to have any desire to learn.

Golf, is not easy but you are outside in the warm summer air enjoying the environment with no one around to watch you mess up like in a poolroom

Bowling is far easier to roll a ball down an alley and knock over some pins than it is to pocket a ball.

The pathetic truth is that without the beer leagues, poolrooms would be complete ghost towns.

The ONLY way to have pool succeed it to get kids involved with inter-school competition at an early age.

If you feel like taking a look at what I wrote a yr ago, I did a search and found it FYI its post #4...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=84789&highlight=Golf+bowling
 
Donald Dell

GMAC said:
Imagine first place at the US OPEN was a million dollars I promise every pro would give it their all. Different circumstances require different responses to survive. Pool struggles because it lacks sponsorship plain and simple. All the pro's would act the part if they were properly rewarded for their effort.


Imagine practicing 10 plus hours a day for half your life and you can't afford an apartment or a car.

Imagine always having to have people put you in box because you can't work and keep your game at a level to compete with people from other countries who train all day to beat you.

Imagine dedicating your whole life to something because you love it and are great at it to find out all of your work was for a dead end.

Imagine we stopped blaming pool players for the demise of the sport when in reality it is simple, sponsor don't back the sport because they don't see an ROI. Until someone shows them a productive ROI pool will remain a fringe sport that people struggle to survive in, unless you are brilliant like Janette or superman or woman like Mika, SVB or Allison.

Imagine televison invested in pool like golf and had ten cameras at the US Open and did it live and went from table to table as great shots happened with no long breaks so people didn't get board. The cameras would always be going and they would catch all the great shots and not just one match. The key to golf is they don't follow two people around all day they have cameras all over catching all the great shots.


I imagine someone who taught pool would be a bit more gracious and understanding to the struggling pool player.
Click to expand...

You've hit on some very valid points. I've been thinking about calling master dealmaker, Donald Dell to get his advice. Anyone have Donald Dell's phone number please PM me because I will call. (Author of "Never make first offer")

JoeyA
 
3andstop said:
I said it before and I still believe this. As a former room owner, I spent a good amount of time peering out into the room watching the people playing. Here is was I observed.

Couples come in and they are embarrassed that someone would see them trying to hold a cue stick.

Frustration setting in minutes after attempting to play.

They are uncomfortable not knowing even where to stand between shots.

The bangers are only held to interest if they are drinking an making noise and fools of themselves.

In short, the game is far to difficult and complicated for the average person to have any desire to learn.

Golf, is not easy but you are outside in the warm summer air enjoying the environment with no one around to watch you mess up like in a poolroom

Bowling is far easier to roll a ball down an alley and knock over some pins than it is to pocket a ball.

The pathetic truth is that without the beer leagues, poolrooms would be complete ghost towns.

The ONLY way to have pool succeed it to get kids involved with inter-school competition at an early age.

If you feel like taking a look at what I wrote a yr ago, I did a search and found it FYI its post #4...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=84789&highlight=Golf+bowling
Click to expand...

3andstop

I think you bring out a god point about the complexity of pool for beginners. Just watching the bangers shoot the wrong pattern drives me up a wall. At least with Golf or Bowling there is a set process. Years ago I hustled BB Bangers with simple stop shots and two way misses never tipping my hand. It was a simple chess game for me.
 
GMAC said:
Imagine televison invested in pool like golf and had ten cameras at the US Open and did it live and went from table to table as great shots happened with no long breaks so people didn't get board. .
Click to expand...

I like this concept!!!

Steve
 
Steve, you make a good point, however as it is in my way to point things out, sometimes pool players don't view league pool as competition. They sometimes view it as a social occasion where they drink, eat, chat with friends and bang some balls around. Now if they do this all season and most of the league does this, they will be possibly underranked when they go to higher level play and are not under the influence of their choice of drink etc. Then other teams complained that they sandbagged and are under ranked. The ranking is based on weekly league play and we know that people get geared up for the regionals and for Las Vegas (for BCAPL and APA at least). IN the APA there are no male 2's in Las Vegas for that reason (or so I"ve been told that is the reason). Now I will be the first to agree that social pool doesn't contribute to you being the best competitive player but for some people social pool is where it's at. I'm not sure that others can complain that these social pool players are sandbagging when they step up their game for what they consider "serious pool". Just my 2 cents.
 
Good points, Rufus. But if they want to play league, it would be nice if they would at least play by the rules established by the league.
I have always believed that if everyone just put forth their best effort, the handicap system would work much better. The ones who try to manipulate handicaps are the ones that just P*** me off.

Steve
 
GMAC said:
Imagine first place at the US OPEN was a million dollars I promise every pro would give it their all. Different circumstances require different responses to survive. Pool struggles because it lacks sponsorship plain and simple. All the pro's would act the part if they were properly rewarded for their effort.


Imagine practicing 10 plus hours a day for half your life and you can't afford an apartment or a car.

Imagine always having to have people put you in box because you can't work and keep your game at a level to compete with people from other countries who train all day to beat you.

Imagine dedicating your whole life to something because you love it and are great at it to find out all of your work was for a dead end.

Imagine we stopped blaming pool players for the demise of the sport when in reality it is simple, sponsor don't back the sport because they don't see an ROI. Until someone shows them a productive ROI pool will remain a fringe sport that people struggle to survive in, unless you are brilliant like Janette or superman or woman like Mika, SVB or Allison.

Imagine televison invested in pool like golf and had ten cameras at the US Open and did it live and went from table to table as great shots happened with no long breaks so people didn't get board. The cameras would always be going and they would catch all the great shots and not just one match. The key to golf is they don't follow two people around all day they have cameras all over catching all the great shots.


I imagine someone who taught pool would be a bit more gracious and understanding to the struggling pool player.
Click to expand...


this is all good dialogue, but the real ROOT of the problem is not lack of sponsorship.

The reason you have coverage of sports like golf, football, etc. is because people seem to enjoy those sports much more than pool... certainly watching it.

Let's face it, unless you play pool and love it... it's not very interesting to watch ugly people use a stick to hit a ball in a hole. Golf works because it has scenic backdrops and it's very popular among the rich, leading to major corporate sponsorship.

Questionable ethics and smokey pool halls do not attract corporate sponsorship... and pooldawg ain't no fortune 500 company.

This is, I think, the root of what Randy was getting at. The seedy background to pool as a hustler's world does not lend itself to becoming mainstream. This is not going to change anytime soon.

I love pool for what it is and I am constantly thinking of ways to increase the popularity, but it's very tough. Pool just doesn't tug at the emotions or psychology of Americans. It doesn't get you pumped up like football does, it doesn't have the spectacular athletic feats that basketball does, and it doesn't have the history and the drama that baseball does.

If you can change the mind of the everyday American, you can change the fate of pool. In my mind, the task is next to impossible.
 
Pool needs am image change, and it start with the people who want to change Pool for the BETTER.

Most people who do not play Pool but would be in a position to SPONSOR POOL, and have been in a Bar or Pool Room with most local Tournament Play would shy away from Pool because of the negative image, credit score a lot of players have.

Corporate Americas BEAN CRUNCHERS know the numbers, and the average Pool Player has a low credit score, drive a old car, is not a homeowner,and is low income.

Why would corporate America spend advertising dollars to promote products most player could not buy.

I would say over 50% of the people who play in most local tournament in my Valley nightly are on GA, Working under the Table, unemployeed, living off SSI, or some other government program.
 
Last edited:
pooltchr said:
Good points, Rufus. But if they want to play league, it would be nice if they would at least play by the rules established by the league.
I have always believed that if everyone just put forth their best effort, the handicap system would work much better. The ones who try to manipulate handicaps are the ones that just P*** me off.

Steve
Click to expand...

Agreed 150% I could not see myself playing and dumping all the time just to go to vegas to win what maybe 5-10k? And the odds are greatly against u, and you gotta suffer at sucking all that time to get your score down (RETARTED)

My lil bud, with my help he went from 5 to a 9 and is league points champ here in town. I very much respect him for not ONCE, NOT NEVER dumbing his game down. He just gets up there and kicks a**, he will probably never go to vegas for that lone reason, but I have much respect for him keeping his game where its supposed to be and not worrying about the BS.

Long Live the Players:cool:, down with the chumps:mad:

Grey Ghost
 
betterment of pool

When I was in the military which is how I usually start off. On two nights a week a couple of the good players would be at the rec center and teach others how to stand and stroke and shoot. Just the basics. The manager of the recreation center wanted others to enjoy coming to the rec center and playing. We were up in the cold during winter and not a lot to do so the rec. center was it. We had tournaments each week which only gave a trophy but did not cost to enter. The better players which there were two of did not play but helped run it and helped people play. I thought it was great and we always had a lot of people playing. Even people that did not know how to play wanted to play for something and in 74 in the military it was a small something. No telling how much I won at 10 cents a game 8 ball back then but the ones I played were really just wanting to learn and played for that just to play. Maybe if we tried to help people learn when we weren't busy it would help. Go to your local pool place and offer to do just that 1 night a week and have then do a sign up it might suprise you how many really would like to learn a little.
Percy
 
this is why!

pooltchr said:
Imagine a pro golfer missing putts on purpose, in order to keep his ranking down.

Imagine a pro bowler missing a couple of pins each frame so nobody would know how good he was.

Imagine a quarterback tossing a couple of interceptions to keep his quarterback rating down.

Imagine a pitcher intentionally missing the box just a little bit, so his team wouldn't move up too far in the standings.

Imagine any athlete in any sport holding back and not giving their best performance every time they get in competition.

Now, imagine if pool players actually tried to play their best game every time they are at the table.

Steve
Click to expand...

In MY experience from anywhere I have played and been to watch, alot of people just don't want to go watch a bunch of "grown" men / women act like a bunch of babies. I, too, used-to throw tantrums when I made a mistake but have definitely changed since my car accident, and I'm able to now sit back and watch others act like children, which disgusts me! It has been about 4 years and I'm now 32! Nobody wants to go experience this but it happens in every pool room across the state and beyond I'm sure! It matters not how old someone is, how talented someone is, or how famous someone is...for example, Earl Strickland and all of his antics. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player when he wants to be a player, but he's an even better baby when he wants to be a baby, due to HIS mistake! I'm saying that if this game is ever going to get to a point to where it's recognized as a "classy" sport, it's players need to start acting right. Yes I agree the game is harder than alot of things out there so frustration when you're learning is constant, BUT how badly do you want to be good at it? If you worry more about the people watching you and their opinions of you playing, you might as well quit now before you start cause' you're always going to make some type of mistake. The key is just to make as few and as non-crucial as possible. The other reason for it being like it is, is that this game is way too associated with hustlers and other bad elements. I know every game has its superstars and its common players but when any games' superstars play down their abilities to disguise themselves as "common players", it will always have a negative effect on that sport. If players would just try making something as fair as they are willing to or accept the fact that you're just not going to compete against that person for whatever amount until it becomes more fair, it would help this game instead of hurt it. There has to be a light at the end of this dark tunnel, and it has to start with "stepping up" to your ability and taking the chance of losing once in a while...This whole "hustling issue" is annoyingly killing our sport and my want to even play the game against anyone I'm not aware of how they play. Now, if I don't know you, I don't play you!!
 
knifemaker said:
When I was in the military which is how I usually start off. On two nights a week a couple of the good players would be at the rec center and teach others how to stand and stroke and shoot. Just the basics. The manager of the recreation center wanted others to enjoy coming to the rec center and playing. We were up in the cold during winter and not a lot to do so the rec. center was it. We had tournaments each week which only gave a trophy but did not cost to enter. The better players which there were two of did not play but helped run it and helped people play. I thought it was great and we always had a lot of people playing. Even people that did not know how to play wanted to play for something and in 74 in the military it was a small something. No telling how much I won at 10 cents a game 8 ball back then but the ones I played were really just wanting to learn and played for that just to play. Maybe if we tried to help people learn when we weren't busy it would help. Go to your local pool place and offer to do just that 1 night a week and have then do a sign up it might suprise you how many really would like to learn a little.
Percy
Click to expand...

Great Post you get a GREENIE!
 
So, if you go ask an average person on the street why pool struggles or is not as popular as other sports, their answer will be 'Because the pool players do not try their hardest all the time'?:confused:

What about ping pong, shuffleboard, cricket, or the pro rodeo? Do most people not give a crap about these sports because the 'players' do not try their hardest?

I do believe that pool can certainly be more popular among the general public. However, I think comparing it to other sports, such as football, is kind of pointless. A huge number of people play pool, but most people could care less about professional pool. A big number of people also play darts and disk golf, but that does not mean that they are going to be able to compete with the major sports?

Most of the sandbagging pertains to leagues. It does not seem that leagues are struggling like the rest of the pool world. I went to a poolroom the other day and they had a few leagues going. The place was packed and they even had a waiting list(I have not seen this for a loooong time). There was probably 150 league players there. The same poolroom drew 11 players at their last $500 added tournament!:eek:

I am sure we would all love to see pool get huge and have a pro tour where the players get rich........but don't hold your breath.
 
Also in Arizona under their RATING SYSTEM as you get BETTER YOUU ARE PENALIZED with a Higher Number Rating, so the BETTER PLAYERS have few event to play in as many of the BAR/ROOM OWNER CATER to the FUN PLAYER who consume more ALCOHOL than the BETTER/SERIOUS PLAYER DO!.

BOOZE PAYS THE BILLS!
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Pool needs am image change, and it start with the people who want to change Pool for the BETTER.

Most people who do not play Pool but would be in a position to SPONSOR POOL, and have been in a Bar or Pool Room with most local Tournament Play would shy away from Pool because of the negative image, credit score a lot of players have.

Corporate Americas BEAN CRUNCHERS know the numbers, and the average Pool Player has a low credit score, drive a old car, is not a homeowner,and is low income.

Why would corporate America spend advertising dollars to promote products most player could not buy.

I would say over 50% of the people who play in most local tournament in my Valley nightly are on GA, Working under the Table, unemployeed, living off SSI, or some other government program.
Click to expand...


exactamundo!
 
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