why the big diff between 8 ball vs 9 ?

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i just got thru looking at my division stats after 13 weeks of a 16 week session. i play apa dj among other leagues. i find it odd that a majority of people play one game better than the other, sometimes by a wide margin. i think our team is fairly consistent in both games altho we have some players that play one game a lot better than the other also. my captain and i are very consistent in both. i am in 1st place in top gun in both games, my captain is in 3rd in both. the guy that is in 2nd behind me in 9 ball is 6th in 8 ball. we have a player on our team that is a 3 in 9 ball with a 71% win record and he is a 2 in 8 ball with a 37% win record . i just dont understand that.

other teams other teams in my division have a pretty large variance in winning % between the 2 games. the 2nd place team in 9 ball is last in 8. the last place team in 9 is 4th in 8 ball.

do some play 8 better bacause they have more options at balls to make until they get to their last couple balls do some play 9 ball better because the table is more open with fewer balls on the table , altho you do have to shoot at the lowest ball ?

whats your opinion on this ?
 
I'm still relatively new to pool, so my lack of experience shows through. I tend to hit the ball softly most of the time, and in 9-ball, if I miss, the object ball is often still right near the pocket that I missed, making it easier for my opponent.

I like both games, and play them as opportunity presents itself. We don't have APA 9-ball here currently, so I play much more 8-ball. If I have a choice, I'll choose 8-ball, but 9-ball is fun to switch up to every now and again.

I'll be curious to see what those with much more experience than I do have to say about this...
 
Alot of people play 8-ball better because that is what they know. Especially when it comes to APA, where the majority of players are shooting in bars or clubs. 9-ball tends to intimidate those same shooters. Especially the ones who say its easier than 8-ball.
But you cant really compare winning % when it comes to APA 8-ball to 9-ball. 9-ball goes by ball count and 8-ball is games won.

From what I've seen, if APA 9-ball went by game count, im pretty sure the same shooters would be less enthusiastic aobut playing it.

But when it comes down to it, the position is what kills alot of 8-ballers. In 8 ball, you can screw up position 3 or 4 or 5 times and still end up with a shot to get back in line. But if you can play 9-ball, shooting 8-ball gets a little easier.
 
justadub said:
I'm still relatively new to pool, so my lack of experience shows through. I tend to hit the ball softly most of the time, and in 9-ball, if I miss, the object ball is often still right near the pocket that I missed, making it easier for my opponent.

I like both games, and play them as opportunity presents itself. We don't have APA 9-ball here currently, so I play much more 8-ball. If I have a choice, I'll choose 8-ball, but 9-ball is fun to switch up to every now and again.

I'll be curious to see what those with much more experience than I do have to say about this...
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thanks for your input dub. i am relatively new to 9 ball. i was a bar banger for 30 years off and on. just got into 9 ball last year when i joined my gf apa league. i started as a 3 and my 1st match i beat a 7, halfway thru the match his captain was calling the lo complaining about me lol. nothing they could do since i was new but it wasnt long before i was raised.

if you dont mind i would like to give you some advice that i hardly ever fo;;ow myself. if you are not sure you can pocket the ball play safe. knock the object ball to a rail or try to hide it behind another ball, dont leave it hanging and give your opponent an easy shot. being an old bar banger i always thought defense was a dirty word, but lately i have been trying to work on defense more,usually as a last resort and sometimes its too late in the match.
 
I feel like the lower handicaps in APA have an easier time in 9 ball because it's a points race, so everything counts towards a win. In 8 ball, they might make 3-4 balls and fail to get out, and they might subsequently lose. 9 ball APA format, those same 3-4 balls per game will get them a win potentially. There's also the traffic issue; as balls disappear in 9 ball there are fewer obstacles for both players, and there's no need to form a plan for a lower handicap as they're forced to shoot the balls in order. Medium to high skill level players should have roughly the same winning percentages if they are appropriately handicapped.
 
BrokeStroke said:
Alot of people play 8-ball better because that is what they know. Especially when it comes to APA, where the majority of players are shooting in bars or clubs. 9-ball tends to intimidate those same shooters. Especially the ones who say its easier than 8-ball.
But you cant really compare winning % when it comes to APA 8-ball to 9-ball. 9-ball goes by ball count and 8-ball is games won.

From what I've seen, if APA 9-ball went by game count, im pretty sure the same shooters would be less enthusiastic aobut playing it.

But when it comes down to it, the position is what kills alot of 8-ballers. In 8 ball, you can screw up position 3 or 4 or 5 times and still end up with a shot to get back in line. But if you can play 9-ball, shooting 8-ball gets a little easier.
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i have the same opinion as you , especially concerning weaker players, they should play 8 better than 9. thats what confuses me about 2 players on my team and a few others in my league. 2 players on my team are 3s,i will say very weak 3s. one has a 74.1 % win in 9 and a 37% in 8. the other has a 80% win in 9 and a 20% in 8. it should be the opposite for them you would think.

you might have something about the ball count vs games won.
 
DallasHopps said:
I feel like the lower handicaps in APA have an easier time in 9 ball because it's a points race, so everything counts towards a win. In 8 ball, they might make 3-4 balls and fail to get out, and they might subsequently lose. 9 ball APA format, those same 3-4 balls per game will get them a win potentially. There's also the traffic issue; as balls disappear in 9 ball there are fewer obstacles for both players, and there's no need to form a plan for a lower handicap as they're forced to shoot the balls in order. Medium to high skill level players should have roughly the same winning percentages if they are appropriately handicapped.
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i was typing a reply that the ball count vs games won might be a factor lol while you were posting this lol. thats something i should have thought about while posting in that apa bashing thread about can a 2 beat a 7 .
i have seen a 2 beat a 3 in my league in 9 ball. i have beat 6s and 7s when i was a 3 and do occasionaly syill do as a 5 in 8 and a 4 in 9. beat an 8 last week in 9 ball. highly doubt if i could in 8 ball tho.
 
I have been playing for 50 years at a pretty high level. But just in the last two years I have been playing 8 ball in bar leagues(in the previous 50 years I might have played 50 games of 8 ball). I really had no idea as to the strategy of 8 ball. 9 ball and straight pool were easy as to what to do in certain situations. Not so with 8 ball to me.So for the last 2 years it has been a learning experience on how to play 8 ball at a high level.
So my 8 ball is not yet on par with 9 ball or straight pool but I'm making progress.
 
measureman said:
I have been playing for 50 years at a pretty high level. But just in the last two years I have been playing 8 ball in bar leagues(in the previous 50 years I might have played 50 games of 8 ball). I really had no idea as to the strategy of 8 ball. 9 ball and straight pool were easy as to what to do in certain situations. Not so with 8 ball to me.So for the last 2 years it has been a learning experience on how to play 8 ball at a high level.
So my 8 ball is not yet on par with 9 ball or straight pool but I'm making progress.
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thanks for your reply. you didnt say , but im sure you were playing on 9' tables all those years . if so i can see where it can take some time to adjust to playing 8 ball on bar boxes. good luck to your continued progress.

it was just my opinion that a relatively new player would be better at playing 8 ball considering he had more options to shoot vs 9 ball where he has a particular ball he has to at least hit and pocket if possible. it just amazes me we have 2 fairly new players that are vastly superior at 9 ball than at 8.
 
It's easier to play defense in 9-ball.
Or it's easier to run the rack out when
your opponent makes a mistake.
That's why I'm better at 9-ball
 
Roadking said:
It's easier to play defense in 9-ball.
Or it's easier to run the rack out when
your opponent makes a mistake.
That's why I'm better at 9-ball
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thanks. thats the explanation i was looking for. you have a more open table, can get ball in hand easier, easier to run out without shooting around your opponents balls as in 8 ball.

i was just looking at the angle that in 8 ball you have more options to play vs in 9 you have to get in shape to hit each consecutive ball .guess it works both ways.
 
Roadking said:
It's easier to play defense in 9-ball.
Or it's easier to run the rack out when
your opponent makes a mistake.
That's why I'm better at 9-ball
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There you go. 8 ball is a better game for strategic-minded players; 9 ball is better for pure shooters. I know that I place a lot better in 8 ball tournaments on average than I do in 9 ball tourneys.
 
the420trooper said:
There you go. 8 ball is a better game for strategic-minded players; 9 ball is better for pure shooters. I know that I place a lot better in 8 ball tournaments on average than I do in 9 ball tourneys.
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was going to agree with you till i thought about how my gf plays. shes a 3 in 8 ball with a 7-5 record for a 58.3 % win record and has 26 points. in 9 ball shes a 2 with a 5-5 record with 12 points. SHE DONT HAVE A CLUE WHEN IT COMES TO STRATEGY ! she just makes a ball and looks around for the next easy shot lol.
 
I am a solid 8 ball player, and I flat out suck at 9 ball. I have been trying to play more 9 ball lately and I believe that the reason I'm not as good at 9 ball is because the positional play is constantly longer. In 8 ball you have a lot of stop / stun shots. I usually plan my route with little cue ball movement needed after my current ball is made. With 9 ball I frequently find that I have to travel long distances or multiple rails for my next shot.
 
I think it's mainly because in 8-ball, it's mainly a short distance type of game (not to say you don't need to know how to shoot long shots when you need to) but if you play for the middle of the set of your balls in terms of placement on the table, usually you can play with some finesse/stun shots and you'll be set for the next shot. And like someone said, unlike in rotational based games (e.g. 10-ball/9-ball) you don't have to play position for a single ball. And it's not always that your balls are at the same half of the table so you need to use some pace/spins to get position up and down the table.

My friend is awesome at 8-ball but isn't that great in 9 or 10 ball because most of the times, I see him fall short because he hits them too soft.
 
lorider said:
it just amazes me we have 2 fairly new players that are vastly superior at 9 ball than at 8.
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I haven't seen anything in this thread from you that does suggest they are better at 9 ball. I've only seen evidence that they score better at APA handicapped "9 ball".

Am I missing something?
 
the420trooper said:
There you go. 8 ball is a better game for strategic-minded players; 9 ball is better for pure shooters. I know that I place a lot better in 8 ball tournaments on average than I do in 9 ball tourneys.
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In my own opinion ... I see many players shoot OK in 8 ball, then start to get better in 9 ball. Then they shoot better in 9 ball but start to lose the touch needed in 8 ball. It's not an either/or by any means, but I think there is a period where you can get good at 8 ball but even better at 9 ball, then you come back to 8 ball to get those skills back and get even better.

The games are just different enough that there is a transition period between them. 9 ball has a wide area of position placement for the next shot, but 8 ball has the ability of different choices. Never in a game of 9 ball do you ever say "oh, well, my position on the 4 ball wasn't perfect so I guess I'll shoot the 6 ball instead" ... yet in 8 ball you could do that.

I see people go back and forth in their skillset regarding each game. It's like talking about playing 8 ball on a bar box vrs. playing 8 ball on a 9 footer, different people have different strengths.
 
In all honesty, 9 ball APA is geared more towards the lower-ranked players so that they have a better chance to win than at 8 ball.

For example,let's say a S/L 7 is playing a S/L 2 in 8 ball;both are at the very ends of the handicap spectrum. Even though the 2 only has to win 2 games to the 7's seven games, the S/L 7 is a heavy favorite simply because he or she is a much better run out player and usually a smarter player than the S/L 2,assuming the handicaps are appropriate.

Now let's introduce another scenario. Suppose in 9 ball a S/L 9 is playing a S/L 1. Once again both players are on the extreme ends of the range of handicaps. With the S/L 9 having to make 75 points, which equates to roughly 7 and 1/2 racks, to the S/L 1's 14 points, which is less than a rack and half worth of points, the S/L 9 is not as heavy a favorite as he/she was in 8 ball. Unless the S/L 9 shoots a perfect game (breaks and runs every game,shoots perfect defense,etc.), the S/L 1 WILL make some balls eventually,whether by receiving ball-in-hand from a foul,outright making a ball,or lucking a ball in. Trust me when I say it is very hard to hold a low-ranked opponent to only a few balls,although it is possible. Even if the S/L 1 loses, if he/she makes at least half the points required for a win, he/she is not really hurting the entire team because another player will likely make up the lost points with a good match score later on. Also you don't receive as many match points if a S/L 9 beats a S/L 1 with the S/L 1 making a few balls. If a S/L 9 was playing a S/L 7 and the S/L 9 held the S/L 7 to just a few balls, it would most likely hurt the team more because the match score would likely be 20-0 or 19-1 or 18-2 and the higher-ranked player on the losing team (i.e. the S/L 7) would be wasted because he/she could not make up the lost points later on in the team match.

I know everything I wrote is a lot to take in. However, if you understand what I'm getting at, you will understand why the higher ranked players are often near the top of the rankings list in 8 ball and why the lower ranked players fare well in the rankings list in 9 ball.
 
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brophog said:
I haven't seen anything in this thread from you that does suggest they are better at 9 ball. I've only seen evidence that they score better at APA handicapped "9 ball".

Am I missing something?
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They really don't play better at 9 ball, just APA 9 ball where the points scoring system is in place.
 
bazkook said:
Unless the S/L 9 shoots a perfect game (breaks and runs every game,shoots perfect defense,etc.), the S/L 1 WILL make some balls eventually,whether by receiving ball-in-hand from a foul,outright making a ball,or lucking a ball in. Trust me when I say it is very hard to hold a low-ranked opponent to only a few balls,although it is possible.
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Agreed.

The problem with APA 9-ball starts with omitting the push-out rule. If the SL1 (or any SL) gets a break and leaves you sewn up, you are basically giving them a point right off. (provided you miss your kick, evidently in my neck of the woods, jumping (and the masse) is forbidden in most places because it is considered 'cheating'.....since only 3 players in the entire league can do it legally, and I dont understand it because it goes against the nationalized APA rules, but that is another matter). And it goes the same for the higher ranked shooters, too. But it is alot easier for the lower skilled players to win at APA 9-ball than APA 8-ball.

You can keep SL1's and SL2's to a low number if you feel like making a small run and playing safe over and over, but that tends to get the APA crowd in an uproar because alot of them dont understand that offense isnt the only way to go.
 
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