Why would you open a room today...
- Thread starter BigDogatLarge
- Start date
If I hit the Lottery, and had about $100,000.00 I would not open a room, too much hassel.
24/7 Job
I worked and ran a room for many years. It was a great learning experience. But I have to be honest, I dont think I would ever do it again,LOL. Very long hours under alot of stress. Wasnt the healthiest job I have ever had.
With the economy and rooms closing everyday, I dont think its the greatest investment right now.
Very high risk with little reward.
I hope the times change though, for the future of pool.
I worked and ran a room for many years. It was a great learning experience. But I have to be honest, I dont think I would ever do it again,LOL. Very long hours under alot of stress. Wasnt the healthiest job I have ever had.
With the economy and rooms closing everyday, I dont think its the greatest investment right now.
Very high risk with little reward.
I hope the times change though, for the future of pool.
manwon said:Dwight, the only way to succeed in this business is to offer something no one else has to offer. I opened my room in September 2004, in Lakewood, Washington a suburb of Tacoma. The first thing I did when starting my research, was to check out the local competition. I went to every pool hall in the entire state, and took notes, to see what in my opinion I could use, and what was the same over and over again. My knowledge of running a business was very limited, and I had much to learn, but common sense told me that being multi-functional was the key to success. If anyone has noticed over the last two years, 90% of the rooms closing have a very similar business plan. All most all of these rooms focused their energy toward renting tables, selling a little food, and selling Alcohol. In my opinion while these are all important parts or running a pool they are only parts that must be integrated in a larger picture.
Today, I think you must completely crossover into all things Billiards related, below is a list of things I have integrated into my business, along with the above.
1) Excellent Equipment that is well maintained, in a comfortable playing environment that is CLEAN and well temperature controlled ( AC / Heat )
2) Reasonable Rates for your equipment and Membership programs that include Seniors and students. These programs should be offered during your slow times ( Open to 6:00 pm and 7 days a week). Locally I charge $60 per month during the above time frame, and $45 for Seniors and students.
3) Pool Leagues are a great asset to any pool room and if you include the next two steps they will be all the more valuable to your business.
4) Retail sales of Billiards equipment is necessary for any pool room. I keep close to 200 cues in cases around the room for sale on a daily basis. In addition to cues, I stock a full compliment of cue cases and all billiards accessories. This will also keep you busy during slow times when you are not maxing out on table rental. In addition, I offer APA, and BCA players with a current ID Card a 5% discount on all item in addition to the normal 20% which I take off all equipment when I price it. I also offer a trade-in program for any cue I sell, which keeps people coming back when they want to upgrade as their ability increases. The only requirement I have is that the new cue must be at least $100 more than the cue being traded-in. Trade-in value is based on the condition of the cue being traded-in, if the cue is in like new condition, the person can get 85% of what was paid for the cue in trade-in value.
5) Cue Repair, this is a very big money maker for any pool room if the work is quality, and the turn around time is reasonable. In my pool room we do all forms of cue repair from Tips to complete refinish work. Normally jobs like weight adjustment, tip replacement, Bumper replacement, Cue wrap replacement, and Joint / Butt refacing are done while the customer waits. This is especially a valuable asset to the league players, because they can get all of the above accomplished while they are playing league which saves them time. In addition, all the other forms of cue repair will also keep you busy during those slow times. I also build limited custom cues for my local customers which also makes for some nice additional income for my business.
By integrating all of the above into your pool room you will have a winning combination. Now you will not make a lot of Friends with the Billiards retailers or other local cue repairmen, you can never forget Business is business and you have to do what will make it work for your business.
I hope this information helps, all I can say it have worked very very well for me!!!!!
Sounds like you operation is successful, and you have (2) Military Bases with in a short drive, right? Soldiers, and Airman have income for Pool. Or if the Bases Closed Tomorrow would you still survive?
IMHO Rooms, and their Clientele has changed in the last 40 years. Rooms use to be about Pool, now the few in the Phoenix Metro Area that are about Pool are struggling. Most Pool now a day is play in Bars, and Sports Bars!
Also people (customers) are different today IMHO for the most part. Plus it is harder to police, and remain in control of your room. Year ago Rooms had Rules Posted in Black & White, and if you broke the rules you were booted. Today boot a customer, and face civil litigation for BS reasons.
Remember a recent conversation with a Room Owner (not in the PHX Metro Area) about his operation of what I thought to be a very successful room.
He mention having to have at all times a supply of Toilet Seats, Bathroom Mirrors, and Bathroom (color) Paint to stay ahead of the Graffiti Artists, and Vandals. :boring2:
This sounds a lot like Blue Fox Billiards in Winchester, VA. Great room, cool owners, excellent food and drink, restaurant, pro shop, darts AND poker, separate juke boxes for restaurant side and pool side, shimmed table sectioned off for the big action, and they host the Tiger Tour once in a while.TheCaveman said:
Poker will draw a HUGE crowd especially if you charge them table time.
The economy is poor, and on top of that pool is experiencing a lull. For these reasons, I think this not only is a fine time to open a pool room but maybe actually a good time to open a room.
Before the straight-jackets come out, let me explain.
Forget the economy for a minute. Let's assume pool's general popularity is cyclical. I think there are good reasons to believe this, but I won't go into those now.
So that makes owning/operating a pool room a little like farming:
good seasons, bad seasons
good decades, tough decades
stress and hard work, stress and hard work
Think about opening a pool room in an UP time. It sounds great! You don't have to really get the marketing right; people will show up. You don't have to worry about the other pool room across town; there are plenty of patrons to go around. You don't have to run well organized leagues, people will show up; you don't have to activate new demographics; there's plenty of the old crowd frequenting your place. It sounds great. But the problem is your success is not robust, like learning to farm when the weather is great, when you really don't need to nurture your crops and develop the refined skills of an expert. You don't have to make sure Joe customer has an experience he wants to repeat; Jane customer will show up next time.
Opening/operating a poolroom in an up time is like a new road player developing all his skills with the railbirds cheering for HIM and with nobody sharking him. His skills may be good, but they're not robust.
Outside evidently of Starbucks, nobody intentionally prepares a business plan that ASSUMES it will always be an up time. This situation is a disaster waiting to happen. If you want a robust business, then you'd better have or develop the means to at least survive the down times.
IMO there's no better way to do this than to cut your teeth and develop your strategies and approach to your business during a down time. If you can write a business plan that convinces a bank you've done your homework and you can develop your business sense during a down time, then you're one of the ones in it for the long haul.
If you can't convince yourself and the bank you can do it in a down time (don't worry about convincing all the experts around you), then you should reconsider whether it's a good idea at all.
Before the straight-jackets come out, let me explain.
Forget the economy for a minute. Let's assume pool's general popularity is cyclical. I think there are good reasons to believe this, but I won't go into those now.
So that makes owning/operating a pool room a little like farming:
good seasons, bad seasons
good decades, tough decades
stress and hard work, stress and hard work
Think about opening a pool room in an UP time. It sounds great! You don't have to really get the marketing right; people will show up. You don't have to worry about the other pool room across town; there are plenty of patrons to go around. You don't have to run well organized leagues, people will show up; you don't have to activate new demographics; there's plenty of the old crowd frequenting your place. It sounds great. But the problem is your success is not robust, like learning to farm when the weather is great, when you really don't need to nurture your crops and develop the refined skills of an expert. You don't have to make sure Joe customer has an experience he wants to repeat; Jane customer will show up next time.
Opening/operating a poolroom in an up time is like a new road player developing all his skills with the railbirds cheering for HIM and with nobody sharking him. His skills may be good, but they're not robust.
Outside evidently of Starbucks, nobody intentionally prepares a business plan that ASSUMES it will always be an up time. This situation is a disaster waiting to happen. If you want a robust business, then you'd better have or develop the means to at least survive the down times.
IMO there's no better way to do this than to cut your teeth and develop your strategies and approach to your business during a down time. If you can write a business plan that convinces a bank you've done your homework and you can develop your business sense during a down time, then you're one of the ones in it for the long haul.
If you can't convince yourself and the bank you can do it in a down time (don't worry about convincing all the experts around you), then you should reconsider whether it's a good idea at all.
BigDogatLarge said:
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mikepage said:
I respectfully disagree, in most areas of the country pool is gone, LA is a example, all the players there for the most part are the same guys. If a good poolroom there was opened you would catch some biz and maybe create new players-thats the trick NEW MEAT, then a customer base could be generated, As Jay stated you have to have hott girls working there-think Hooters, that will bring in the guys.
even with all that its such an up hill battle. your Correct historically when the economy tanked the pool rooms did better, however previously there weernt video games, Facebook, My Space, and 400 channels of TV, DVD's, Net Flix and other forms of cheap entertainment that wasnt there back then. I remember when the Olympics were popular? people talked about them, watched them and had interest in them? The last few years the level of interest has dwindled down, when there were a few channels of TV we didnt have the choices then so it seems to me we embraced the Olympics because it was infront of us, now with more choices-sure were interested in the Olympics but not like we were 20 years ago. The internet itself brings people together with similer interests, most of my friends I hang out with I met online and the guys I used hang out with I stay intouch with but were growing apart. We have the ability to meet more people faster and choose from our friends from a larger group of people. With all the choices of things in modern life, pool or anything isnt going to be as cyclical as it used to be-the rules have changed, the economic business models have been totally changed.
We still like to have fun, pool is fun but thinking that there is gonna be alot of people starting to play pool because its inexpensive just isnt a reality anymore. The Businesses to be in are Food, Sex, LAwyers, Weddings, Realestate, drugs(legal or illegal), funerals, poweer(gas,oil,coal) those businesses will awlys survive in any form, now to get into them or stay in them is a different topic, but they are all address basic human needs, we all get married, have sex, drugs(beer or asprins dosent matter) we all die, gotta eat, an have shelter. We do need entertainment too and of course pool falls into that catagory but the entertainment catagory is bigger than it was, the funeral biz hasnt changed much. The entertainment biz has changed perhaps more than any of the sectors I mention in this paragraph. And that change is why I dont have alot of confidence in pool, Its gonna be interesting to see what happens to snooker in the UK since they lost their big $$$ sponsers.
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CocoboloCowboy said:
Sounds like you operation is successful, and you have (2) Military Bases with in a short drive, right? Soldiers, and Airman have income for Pool. Or if the Bases Closed Tomorrow would you still survive?
The Military make-up a small percentage of my business, mainly because they are mostly deployed. The bases you are speaking about are McCord Air force Base and Ft. Lewis Army Base. However, these bases will not be going anywhere, the Army Base is the main training facility for the Army's new Medium Fighting Brigades known as the Stryker Brigades.
Also people (customers) are different today IMHO for the most part. Plus it is harder to police, and remain in control of your room. Year ago Rooms had Rules Posted in Black & White, and if you broke the rules you were booted. Today boot a customer, and face civil litigation for BS reasons.
I do not agree with this at all Cowboy, it is very easy to Police and stay in complete control of your room. My room is all ages, but I also sell Beer, and in four years I have never had any problems. If some one gets out of line or can't follow the rules, the rules are are very politely explained to them. If that doesn't work, they are asked to leave for the night, which gives them some time to think about their actions. If they come back and still have not learned how to follow the rules, they asked to leave for good. If they don't do as requested they are given the necessary assistance to exit the premises. Then they are taken for a short ride and totally convinced in private that their actions were wrong and that any further action on their part will result in very harsh consequences. To date this has not been necessary although two individuals did get to go for a little ride and that is all it took!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He mention having to have at all times a supply of Toilet Seats, Bathroom Mirrors, and Bathroom (color) Paint to stay ahead of the Graffiti Artists, and Vandals. :boring2:[/QUOTE]
I have never had any of these problems either, I suppose by dealing with my own problems, and by keeping the Police out of it, they may take my rules more seriously. However, it may also just be my warm and friendly personality, I really don't know for sure!!!!!!
So, Jay, just out of curiosity, why didn't you open up a room in the north end of LV? Was that not your plan? And then you advertised/sold all those GCs, right? Again, just curious as to why your plans changed... or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about... which is a definite possibility.jay helfert said:
Regrads, cd.
manwon said:Sounds like you operation is successful, and you have (2) Military Bases with in a short drive, right? Soldiers, and Airman have income for Pool. Or if the Bases Closed Tomorrow would you still survive?
The Military make-up a small percentage of my business, mainly because they are mostly deployed. The bases you are speaking about are McCord Air force Base and Ft. Lewis Army Base. However, these bases will not be going anywhere, the Army Base is the main training facility for the Army's new Medium Fighting Brigades known as the Stryker Brigades.
Also people (customers) are different today IMHO for the most part. Plus it is harder to police, and remain in control of your room. Year ago Rooms had Rules Posted in Black & White, and if you broke the rules you were booted. Today boot a customer, and face civil litigation for BS reasons.
I do not agree with this at all Cowboy, it is very easy to Police and stay in complete control of your room. My room is all ages, but I also sell Beer, and in four years I have never had any problems. If some one gets out of line or can't follow the rules, the rules are are very politely explained to them. If that doesn't work, they are asked to leave for the night, which gives them some time to think about their actions. If they come back and still have not learned how to follow the rules, they asked to leave for good. If they don't do as requested they are given the necessary assistance to exit the premises. Then they are taken for a short ride and totally convinced in private that their actions were wrong and that any further action on their part will result in very harsh consequences. To date this has not been necessary although two individuals did get to go for a little ride and that is all it took!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He mention having to have at all times a supply of Toilet Seats, Bathroom Mirrors, and Bathroom (color) Paint to stay ahead of the Graffiti Artists, and Vandals. :boring2:
I have never had any of these problems either, I suppose by dealing with my own problems, and by keeping the Police out of it, they may take my rules more seriously. However, it may also just be my warm and friendly personality, I really don't know for sure!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the reply, and hopefully you pat them down before that short ride, as many carry firearms, etc. now a days. Yes I know it is illegal, but when did the criminal element case about obeying laws.
Again thanks for the reply.
:thumbup:
I would like to say go for it - live your dream - run the best pool room in the area - I love pool and am going to put everything I have into it. Problem is that almost everyone else that opens a pool room is just like you. However I think you are smarter than the average Joe because you showed some humility and asked for help with ideas from other people. I run a very busy pharmacy and I think I will be a better manager after reading this thread. WOW - there are some really great ideas in here. What I haven't heard is the main thing LOCATION! Make sure that it is a good pool location and not a good location for something else. I had a friend that opened her own pharmacy and had a marketing EXPERT (LOL) come out and show her the best location to open the store. 50,000 cars drove past her store everyday. Sounds great - problem is they just kept driving past and didn't stop. It was too hard to get in and out of. I agree with opening in a down time, and I agree pool is cyclical like almost everything else. Also if you are going to have the equipment for sale in your room why not open an ebay store and make some more money by selling there. Everything made there would just be icing on the cake. No one can say that right now is a good or a bad time for you to open a room. They don't know what the market is going to do in the next year in your area or if pool is about to really take off where you live and no where else for some unknown reason. What I will tell you though is that mark the day when pool becomes and olympic sport. You want to see a sport take off - help promote to the IOC that pool should be in the Olympics. I will bet my house that swimming and gymnastics are having a huge lift in income right about now - the same would be the case for billiards. Hope this helps and good luck in whatever you decide.
Razorback Randy
Razorback Randy
One of the most famous rooms of all time just had a Cement block building with a sunken floor and a couple of tables surrounded by bleachers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekyLXFehvvk
Just goes to show you don't need a fancy place to draw players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekyLXFehvvk
Just goes to show you don't need a fancy place to draw players.
CocoboloCowboy said:[/B]
I have never had any of these problems either, I suppose by dealing with my own problems, and by keeping the Police out of it, they may take my rules more seriously. However, it may also just be my warm and friendly personality, I really don't know for sure!!!!!!
Thanks for the reply, and hopefully you pat them down before that short ride, as many carry firearms, etc. now a days. Yes I know it is illegal, but when did the criminal element case about obeying laws.
Again thanks for the reply.
:thumbup:[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the reply, and hopefully you pat them down before that short ride, as many carry firearms, etc. now a days. Yes I know it is illegal, but when did the criminal element case about obeying laws.
We not only pat them down, hell we turn them upside down and shake them!!!!
However, firearms are the least of my worries, it is more important to be careful to not break any of their fingers or their head when they are put in the trunk of the car. You would be surprised how excited some people become when they are politely placed in a Cars trunk!!!
I don't know how it is where you live, however, it is very easy to get a Concealed Weapons permit in Washington State. I have had a permit for the last 10 years, I never leave home with out Betsy, Bertha, or Thunder.:thumbup: When my girls take everyone pays very close attention, and has no doubt what their intentions are!!
Oh and by the way, I am not joking, 2 or 3 hour's in the trunk of car to date has made my point very clear to those who would listen to reason. It kinda takes the fight out of them if you know what I mean, which is a great thing for all concerned!!!:thumbup:
Take Care!!!:smile:
mikepage said:
My drivers are not rent, in fact they are not paid either. Like Cowboy pointed out I live near two Military Bases, and I have a number of Friends that are retired Military like myself that live close by. In fact it only takes me 10 minutes to drive to my pool room from my house. In this area there are many people who keep an eye on the area where we live. It keeps the area nice, and for the most part with us and the Police watching the area the bad guy's go where pickings are easier.
Like I said before, I will never call the Police, if I pick up the phone I will call my Friends, and trust me I will only do that as a last resort, because some of them get a little carried away!!!!!!!
Take Care