WI is dropping out of the BCAPL?

twal

twal

"W"
Silver Member
Here is the email I got from David Vanderberghe (CueSports International)
I did not alter it at all.

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Dear Wisconsin BCA Pool League Member,

Did you know that the officers of your WIBCAPL state association have voted to switch your organization away from the BCA Pool League (BCAPL) to a new non-affiliated organization they call the Wisconsin State Poolplayers Association (WSPA)? Also … that this vote was cast without consulting a majority of players and League Operators, or the BCAPL?

Why, you ask? Well, you will find a sampling of the comments we have read that are intended to persuade you and your League Operator to switch. These quotes are riddled with distortions and misinformation. DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

“Lower sanction dues” – The WSPA plans to charge $8 per member, and you can play in their state tournament. As a BCAPL member, you were eligible to play in ALL regional BCAPL events, the WIBCAPL state event, AND the BCAPL National Championships for only $15. If you allow this to happen, eligibility for these tournaments will now add up to $23. Also, if your BCAPL league is dual sanctioned with VNEA, you will have to pay for BCAPL, VNEA, and WSPA. Is the board really saving you money? No.

“There is no need for a state organization for the BCA” – Wrong. State associations should have value far beyond the production of a state tournament. The BCAPL has a positive working relationship with other state and regional associations, and the members benefit from the synergy created. We coordinate events, League Operator and player lists, sanctioning guidelines, League Operator/member dispute resolution, night of play protection for leagues, and much more.

Fortunately, the BCAPL received good communication from League Operators in Wisconsin (night of play protection, sanctioning support, player ratings, eligibility questions and exceptions, etc.). … But, unfortunately, we received very little communication from the WIBCAPL board that was supposed to represent your League Operators. Rather than communicate with BCAPL about their concerns, they decided to switch to a new association without consulting you.

“The only benefit in sanctioning with the BCAPL is if your league has teams that would like to play in Vegas.” – Wrong again. The BCAPL does much more than simply hold an annual national tournament. We create a national structure to unite local leagues in states, regions, and around the world. We create and send membership cards, patches, pins, rulebooks, posters, flyers, and much more. We have a full time support staff to answer your emails or calls any time. We have developed and maintain software systems for online registration, state/regional/national tournament management, and league management. So when you hear this statement, you will know that you are being intentionally misled.

“Wisconsin’s participation (in nationals) … has been in decline each year” – Inaccurate. More players traveled from Wisconsin to the BCAPL nationals in 2013 than did in 2012 or 2011.

“$60,000 is sent in and the WIBCAPL only receives $6,000 back” – Very misleading … BCAPL sent $6,000 for the WIBCAPL state tournament, but they are ignoring the $3,000 sent to the very same person on the WIBCAPL board for the Great Lakes Regional. Over a third of BCAPL members in Wisconsin play in leagues managed by our proprietary league software, LeagueSys, which is underwritten by BCAPL. We spend thousands in LeagueSys subsidies each year in Wisconsin alone.

The WSPA advocates clearly want to take over the BCAPL state tournament, but the BCAPL has offered many other tournaments that have been available to Wisconsin BCAPL members in recent years. Regional BCAPL events in Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Tunica, Denver, and Winnipeg were all within a day’s drive of Wisconsin, and BCAPL added from $2,000 to $10,000 to each of these events.

The WSPA advocates may prefer that the BCA Pool League just abandon leagues and events in Wisconsin and the region, so that they have no competition. But, you may rest assured that BCAPL will redouble our efforts to produce or promote more regional, state, and local events in and around Wisconsin than ever before.

There are many more quotes that we can debunk for you, but you get the picture. Again … DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

And … don’t let your BCAPL membership benefits slip away. Thank you for your ongoing support.


David Vandenberghe, COO
 
If anything I just wanted to put this out there.

What are the negatives for WI pool could come out of it this change?

My league operator has sent out an email (to us members) looking for feedback on this to cast his vote.

I can only speak for my area, I know of only a handful of people who go out to Vegas.
So I do question, why does WI fund the national tournament? Why can’t we keep more money here.
I think this is the biggest issue.

If the BCAPL could come up with something that say’s okay you WI players… almost none of you go to Vegas so we will drop you fees to $X amount. But if you want to play in the Vegas tournament then you must pay $Y amount.

It appears this might be well beyond that point now and we are about to split ways.
 
Sounds like a handful of people just want to poach players because they're upset about a couple of their dollars not going directly into their own pockets. BCA(PL) pays back plenty. They have an organized structure and help produce many events. If this WI thing wants to take off, they'll need their own handicapping system and all that. I don't know that many people that go to Vegas, but I do know some and there are plenty more. I have no qualms about a few bucks going towards that. What I potentially lose in BCA money, I could probably save by not going out to lunch once a month or drinking two less beers.

IMO, they let BCA create the league and now somebody's gotten greedy and wants to hijack the entire state's league. You and I both know full well that if they wanted to create a WI league like they're talking about, it would take a decade to get a fraction of the players.
 
Banks said:
Sounds like a handful of people just want to poach players because they're upset about a couple of their dollars not going directly into their own pockets. BCA(PL) pays back plenty. They have an organized structure and help produce many events. If this WI thing wants to take off, they'll need their own handicapping system and all that. I don't know that many people that go to Vegas, but I do know some and there are plenty more. I have no qualms about a few bucks going towards that. What I potentially lose in BCA money, I could probably save by not going out to lunch once a month or drinking two less beers.

IMO, they let BCA create the league and now somebody's gotten greedy and wants to hijack the entire state's league. You and I both know full well that if they wanted to create a WI league like they're talking about, it would take a decade to get a fraction of the players.
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I agree bca is getting pricey. But bca runs a fine state tournament. Not perfect but pretty good. And I don't mind paying for the environment. If this thing does take off there will be less players and more bills to pay. The Indians were sick of dean stealing from them, so I hope he's not involved with this!
 
I was wondering if this would make the AZ forums. Myself and a bunch of my league members played at the state tournament. From our perspective, we were getting a patch, a rule book, and not much else for our $15. The tournament wasn't run by the BCAPL and we weren't playing on Diamond tables, so the decision is going to be easy for most. We'll see how it goes next year.
 
emf123 said:
I was wondering if this would make the AZ forums. Myself and a bunch of my league members played at the state tournament. From our perspective, we were getting a patch, a rule book, and not much else for our $15. The tournament wasn't run by the BCAPL and we weren't playing on Diamond tables, so the decision is going to be easy for most. We'll see how it goes next year.
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Hey, the Brewers sucked for years, but you didn't see them pulling out of MLB. :eek:

On a more serious note.. I can understand totalling up all of those $15, but $15 for a year and for having other opportunities available doesn't seem like much. I could understand the deal if it were the APA, since not nearly as much is returned, but a huge portion is returned in the BCA. :confused:

Markets tend to gravitate to what people will pay. Don't be surprised if the state dues go up afterwards as well. After all, people will still have to do the work and unless they're pilfering the BCA's system, they'll also need to figure out a system themselves.

I am surprised that you're without Diamonds up that way, though.
 
It was frustrating to say the least playing on less than ideal conditions. We were in a big golf dome like structure, no lights directly over the tables, and it got so humid that the cloth relaxed so bad you could push it on some tables. The players want Diamond tables and they had a deal with a table supplier to have Diamonds but it fell through. I heard it was about money, go figure ;)
The problem is, there's not many people out there with 110 Diamonds for rent, and a crew to set them up. So if we're going to play on valleys, why pay for Vegas? Cheeseheads are an independent sort, we'll be fine ;)
 
As I understand it, Dean was trying to make a deal for Diamond tables - and the state association would not pay what it costs to bring them up there.

They wanted 120 tables I think.

They only wanted to pay about what Valleys rent for - and the Diamonds had to come from a lot further away.

The guys that bring pool tables around have a tough time covering their expenses. Fuel is the biggest problem. Plus truck and trailer rental. The state association is the ones that made the decision where to have the event - and that cannot be blamed on the National office. That is the same people that are trying to switch over everyone to a non-affiliated association.

We have supported Wisconsin and there is a group that wants to change the way things are being done.

They should start a new organization - rather than 'hijack' the current association.

Time will tell. But there was a better way to do this than how this came down. Talking is a great character builder.

Mark Griffin
 
How much of a cost difference was it? I'm not privy to any kind of inside info, but you'd think you guys could have hammered out a compromise. It's our state tournament, the players want to be playing on the best equipment. If you want to keep us, we should be playing on Diamonds.
 
emf123 said:
How much of a cost difference was it? I'm not privy to any kind of inside info, but you'd think you guys could have hammered out a compromise. It's our state tournament, the players want to be playing on the best equipment. If you want to keep us, we should be playing on Diamonds.
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So every other place that plays on Diamonds can suck a toad and pay their own way, but you guys are so "loyal" that you should be paid to play on Diamonds? Lol. If that's the way your entire state thinks, good riddance.

Out here in the PNW, we pay for what we get and we like it. If there's a problem, we deal with it, we don't cry about $1.25 a month because we don't take advantage of a membership. I think whoever's pulling the strings of players out there is going to end up pulling a move. Have fun with that.
 
shut up douche, that wasn't directed to you. try some reading comprehension before you talk out your ass.
 
emf123 said:
How much of a cost difference was it? I'm not privy to any kind of inside info, but you'd think you guys could have hammered out a compromise. It's our state tournament, the players want to be playing on the best equipment. If you want to keep us, we should be playing on Diamonds.
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So regardless of anyone else's right to charge what they believe to be a fair price for their services/product, or how much profit they do or don't make, or even if it will make them take a loss, companies should always give you something at the price you want just because that is what you want? Sorry, but I'm not following the logic here and I don't think that works anywhere else either. But next time I'm at a store I'm going to try it.

Not to mention that if it is through Diamond or a Diamond affiliated company you aren't going to get the Diamond tables you want any cheaper if your league changes to affiliate with another organization instead of the BCAPL (because I'm pretty sure BCAPL leagues always get Diamond's very best price) so you wouldn't be helping your chances of getting Diamond tables, and if anything would be hurting them. So either give us Diamond tables or we are going to go to another league where the Diamond tables are still going to cost us the same amount or possibly even more? Again, I'm not following the logic here.

For the record I'm not insinuating that Diamond gives different prices to different leagues, only that I'm sure due to their affiliation with the BCA that the BCA already likely gets their very best price whether other leagues do or not (and I don't know if they do or not).
 
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emf123 said:
shut up douche, that wasn't directed to you. try some reading comprehension before you talk out your ass.
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Suck a cheese curd, buddy. Try some economics comprehension before you throw a tantrum and ask for handouts.

Have fun with your failure, I'm done with your crying. :thumbup:
 
cheese is good you should try it sometime. I asked a question directed to mark griffin, and you tools jumped my ass. so internet tough guys, come on out, lets plays some. i live in a town of 1200 people, i'm easy to find :thumbup:
 
Poolplaya9 said:
So regardless of anyone else's right to charge what they believe to be a fair price for their services/product, or how much profit they do or don't make, or even if it will make them take a loss, companies should always give you something at the price you want just because that is what you want? Sorry, but I'm not following the logic here and I don't think that works anywhere else either. But next time I'm at a store I'm going to try it.

Not to mention that if it is through Diamond or a Diamond affiliated company you aren't going to get the Diamond tables you want any cheaper if your league changes to affiliate with another organization instead of the BCA (because I'm pretty sure BCA leagues always get Diamond's very best price) so you wouldn't be helping your chances of getting Diamond tables, and if anything would be hurting them. So either give us Diamond tables or we are going to go to another league where the Diamond tables are still going to cost us the same amount or possibly even more? Again, I'm not following the logic here.

For the record I'm not insinuating that Diamond gives different prices to different leagues, only that I'm sure due to their affiliation with the BCA that the BCA already likely gets their very best price whether other leagues do or not (and I don't know if they do or not).
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Yea......what he ^ said!
 
emf123 said:
cheese is good you should try it sometime. I asked a question directed to mark griffin, and you tools jumped my ass. so internet tough guys, come on out, lets plays some. i live in a town of 1200 people, i'm easy to find :thumbup:
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So a couple of people pointed out where you weren't being logical, and now you want them to travel to who knows how far to play you some pool which has nothing to do with what was being discussed? Sorry, but I'm not seeing the logic there either. Doesn't seem that you have much use for logic, huh?
 
emf123 said:
cheese is good you should try it sometime. I asked a question directed to mark griffin, and you tools jumped my ass. so internet tough guys, come on out, lets plays some. i live in a town of 1200 people, i'm easy to find :thumbup:
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Take it easy there Rocky. You started the crap by calling somebody a douche. Why not try to elaborate (is that to big of a word for you) on why you think a certain way, instead of pulling out your dick and wanting to sword fight? Now is your chance to act like an adult.
Why do you think you will get everything you are expecting by changing affiliates?
 
OK, I was asking how much more it would've cost because I was trying to figure out which side I should be on in this scenario. I was joking on the "sword" fighting comment but Banks made some serious BS comment. So, until someone else who actually knows something about what's going on, I'm out. I'm gonna go play with my new Jacoby Edge shaft that I bought at the state tournament. Find something bad about that?
 
Okay, so know a litte more now than I did a week ago.
This has nothing to do with tables or the venue.
Yes the dome sucks and finally we are out of there and hopefully we never go back for BCA or WAMO or WSPA.

WI is independent from BCA and have been for a while now. Mark could correct me if I am wrong.

I can see where they are going with this. Just not in total agreement of how it has handled thus far.

However they (WSPA) felt that tough decisions had to be made at that time.

I don't know how successfully this will be, only the future holds that.

The best best predictor of the future is what happend in the past.

Long story short, (I heard) WIBCA asked for concessions from national BCA and they said sorry, they need the full $15 to run their system.
 
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