Good thing you bumped this post. Everyone should read it and everything you said is right on the money.
Winning and Losing - Separating the process from the outcome
- Thread starter sixpack
- Start date
Good thing you bumped this post. Everyone should read it and everything you said is right on the money.
Reading the post, I try to get in a simple frame of mind. When I am down on a shot, I want to think... Shoot and win. If I think miss and lose, I get up and try again.
Great post!!
This the one of the best posts that I have read on here for awhile.Very cool breakdown of a most important aspect of this great game.Printed this out for my all my teams.Rep for you.
Keith
This the one of the best posts that I have read on here for awhile.Very cool breakdown of a most important aspect of this great game.Printed this out for my all my teams.Rep for you.
Keith
The thoughts of winning/loosing and make/miss will sometimes enter the scene but preferably while still standing and should be put on backburner.
I think the goal should be to forget the outcome and be in the moment. One step at a time execute the shot because you are interested in the shot not because it will win you the game or money.
Then again you don't miss often.
6 pack,
I really enjoyed reading your post. I think alot more people would agree with me if they had the chance to read it. Have you considered expanding on your thought process and submitting it to one of the pool publications?
Hu...as usual, right on the money brother.
I really enjoyed reading your post. I think alot more people would agree with me if they had the chance to read it. Have you considered expanding on your thought process and submitting it to one of the pool publications?
Hu...as usual, right on the money brother.
I don't want to derail the thread and I think this is sorta on track. I hate to lose and when I do, I dwell on it for a few days. I even have dreams about it. Especially if I should have won.
Yesterday I played a great tournament in my area. It was a different format than I'm used to. The field was limited to 25 players and we played round robin. At the end of the round robin, a point system was used to calculate where you were. The game was 8 ball and the field was open to all, no handicap. If you win you get 10 points and if you lose you get a point for every ball you pocket. The top four players have a play off for the money. I finished 5th, 4 points out of the top 4 and therefore out of the money. This really made me think about times when I made mistakes that were avoidable. 1 more game won or 5 more balls pocketed and I would have been in.
Anyway, to JR's, post above. One of those situations came up where I was down on the ball and started having those thoughts. I didn't stand up and go through my routine again. I had just come off of running 3 racks and broke and had a road map on the fourth. It was close to the end and I was aware of the scores. I knew that if I made that last 8 ball I would more than likely make the money based on my upcoming competition. Guess what I did...I dogged it. The guy got up and ran out just like you are supposed to in 8 ball. So, on the learning how to win aspect of the thread, what do you do in those situations as far as clearing your head and getting your mind back right?
runninracks
StrokeAholic
Great Post! One of the great "finds" for me as a noob here.
I also believe that winners are made and developed after their match. The word "seasoning" comes to mind. Some players gamble and enter tournaments constantly but only get slightly better over a long period of time and never win as much. Others seem to get better very quickly and win alot during the process. I think the ability to realistically understand why you won or lost and then develop what you want to work on is a skill that many of us never master. I am still working on being true to myself after my matches and staying positive as well. Maybe I will be a winner some day----LOL. Just my 2cents
I also believe that winners are made and developed after their match. The word "seasoning" comes to mind. Some players gamble and enter tournaments constantly but only get slightly better over a long period of time and never win as much. Others seem to get better very quickly and win alot during the process. I think the ability to realistically understand why you won or lost and then develop what you want to work on is a skill that many of us never master. I am still working on being true to myself after my matches and staying positive as well. Maybe I will be a winner some day----LOL. Just my 2cents
regrouping
You already know the obvious, you aren't supposed to be doing all this thinking down on the shot to begin with. However, the next mistake when we force ourselves to stand up is that we try to rush to get back down on the shot. When you stand back up reach the end point of the thoughts that distracted you to begin with. Then get back into the game.
Don't just start back at this shot, recheck the rest of your pattern, maybe even review the earlier shots in this inning to arrive back at this point. Then look at this shot, visualize and feel this shot. Look at exactly the path the cue ball is going to take after hitting the object ball and where it is going to stop. I trace this path with my eyes. Only after you are fully back into this game and this shot should you try to get back down on the shot. Don't let anything rush you.
Hu
You already know the obvious, you aren't supposed to be doing all this thinking down on the shot to begin with. However, the next mistake when we force ourselves to stand up is that we try to rush to get back down on the shot. When you stand back up reach the end point of the thoughts that distracted you to begin with. Then get back into the game.
Don't just start back at this shot, recheck the rest of your pattern, maybe even review the earlier shots in this inning to arrive back at this point. Then look at this shot, visualize and feel this shot. Look at exactly the path the cue ball is going to take after hitting the object ball and where it is going to stop. I trace this path with my eyes. Only after you are fully back into this game and this shot should you try to get back down on the shot. Don't let anything rush you.
Hu
Great response Hu. Thank you. I really like the part about reaching the end of those thoughts. There is no shot clock so I shouldn't rush. I will try to remember this next time and really slow down. It was a long shot that I missed but it was really easy. In a practice situation, I would expect to make it 19 out of 20 times. It was about 8 inches from the corner pocket, with the cue ball on the spot at the other end of the table. Very slight cut with bucket pockets. In my mind, I had gotten perfect position.
Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I think the OP is basically saying in essence:
- ALWAYs play to win (and don't pretend you don't care about losing)
- When you lose, don't beat yourself up. Just learn from it and adapt your game to the next match/tournament
- Treat every game you shoot as practice
Is that what he's saying?
- ALWAYs play to win (and don't pretend you don't care about losing)
- When you lose, don't beat yourself up. Just learn from it and adapt your game to the next match/tournament
- Treat every game you shoot as practice
Is that what he's saying?
Secaucus Fats
Banned
This is such a great post! I wish we had a "Best of AZ" archive because your post would doubtless belong there.:thumbup2:
PM Sent and rep given.
Very good,
the only time you can practice being in a final match mentally and whatever else is when your there.
Your so right. We need to learn to win. Very seldom just happens........
the only time you can practice being in a final match mentally and whatever else is when your there.
Your so right. We need to learn to win. Very seldom just happens........
It deserves to be bumped every couple of months. Great read and advice
ACL
Well-known member
Since I am new member, I am so glad you did!
I just started my journey to being a better player about a month ago. I dropped my 8 and 9 ball APA teams, started a Masters team, and started taking lessons from a PBIA instructor. I love the people I met because of APA. That said, I want more from pool than they do. I want to be a tournament player. I want to qualify to US Amateurs. When people see me walk into a pool room, I want them to know that they will get a tough match, regardless if they are better than me or not.
Your post reminded me that it isn't all about mechanics or talent or strategy. It's more about the space 6" between my ears. It reminded me that all of the coaching I have done in my life for other people was all about their mindset and attitude. It reminded me that without a clear mind, I won't get where I want to go.
I am going to use your post as a road map to get my head straight. If I can do that, I believe everything else will fall into place.
Thank you sir!
Yes, excellent advice. I can’t believe that thread has not been revisited in nearly 13 years. I’m guessing you might get more response posts on it this time around than you did originally.
I try to take every playing opportunity whether it’s solo practice, a match against another player for $ or for no $, or tournament matches all as a learning process.
thank you for doing so, ive been needing to read something like this for a while and i really like what i took from it. now to apply it as best i can
sixpack
Do you do private sessions?
Seriously.
Do you do private sessions?
Seriously.
dquarasr
Registered
Thanks for bumping this great thread. WELL DONE!!
After reading it, I have a question: when down on a shot, and thinking starts, which is the best option?
1 - Think “if I make this shot I win” rather than “if I miss this shot I lose”.
2 - Think “this is how I will make this ball and that is where the CB will end up”. Winning/losing is irrelevant. Only the shot at hand is important.
3 - Don’t think at all. If you are thinking, stand up. Think about #2. Get back down, don’t think, let your subconscious shoot the shot for you.
EDIT: I’m pretty sure I know the best answer.
After reading it, I have a question: when down on a shot, and thinking starts, which is the best option?
1 - Think “if I make this shot I win” rather than “if I miss this shot I lose”.
2 - Think “this is how I will make this ball and that is where the CB will end up”. Winning/losing is irrelevant. Only the shot at hand is important.
3 - Don’t think at all. If you are thinking, stand up. Think about #2. Get back down, don’t think, let your subconscious shoot the shot for you.
EDIT: I’m pretty sure I know the best answer.