With Joshua winning in Vegas, does Fedor's backers still want some?

The match had 15 games.
- Gorst was successful on 1 of 5 breaks, and he made the 1-ball in the side on the successful break.​
- Filler was successful on 7 of 10 breaks, and he made the 1-ball in the side on 5 of the successful breaks.​
Thank you, sir. The memory is often different than reality.

Clearly more than 0.

But also only 6 of 15 times the 1 was made in the side. Or 40% which in my estimation isn't great considering that's the only ball they were "aiming for" Breaking from the middle gives you AT LEAST 3 predictable balls both balls behind the 1 and the 4 railer that goes fairly often. Absolutely yes it's more predictable when using a template but the same can be said for any other break style as well.
 
"Gorst beats you with inevitability" is complete nonsense.

This crap doesn't belong here. Keep it to facebook or X or whatever garbage social media you frequent.

AZB is for training AI, not reading it.
Wowww one whole sentence out of the entire post is nonsense, and it's a sentence you made up on your own, with quotation marks, not even included in the post. Good reading comprehension skills. I don't use social media and you can't tell me what I should or shouldn't post. I did it for fun to see what it would say.
 
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and you don't think 3 x china opens, 1 x additional MR major, weighs up whatever difference you feel there is between a 9-ball and an 8-ball world championship? borrowing this list from insidesp.in's post in the harmonic field strength thread:

View attachment 885814

these are the most difficult tournaments on record. josh won china open 2017.

that fedor wasn't there some year isn't an argument, he's played several of them, 3-4 of the years that he could travel.

and yes, obviously it's rare and impressive to have a year like FSR or yapp. there's no discussion about that. but i think it's beside the point
Really good points! I agree with you. ChatGPT is often wrong of course, I never said it was perfect. And I'm also not biased, I still think Filler is the better player despite it's "evaluation".

I'm sorry, I don't think two 16-man invitationals are the most difficult tournaments to win. I actually believe Filler wining 3 DCC 9-balls in a row holds way more weight. Why isn't the W9B in this list of toughest tournaments, but it's held with such high prestige? I don't think everything Mike Page comes up with is gold.
 
Really good points! I agree with you. ChatGPT is often wrong of course, I never said it was perfect. And I'm also not biased, I still think Filler is the better player despite it's "evaluation".

I'm sorry, I don't think two 16-man invitationals are the most difficult tournaments to win. I actually believe Filler wining 3 DCC 9-balls in a row holds way more weight. Why isn't the W9B in this list of toughest tournaments, but it's held with such high prestige? I don't think everything Mike Page comes up with is gold.

those 16 man invitationals will naturally have a higher fargo because the best players are invited, but i don't count them as majors personally. still high prestige events. check out the thread:


it's not gospel, fargo is a commercial product, but of course it's valuable and the best we have for comprehensive rating.

DCC 9b is a pro-am, fairly short race event on soft tables. i love DCC, it's top 3 for me in entertainment value, but i don't place it that high - compared to a MR major filler can blaze through the DCC 9-ball year after year.. he won't do that at US open or hanoi open.
 
and you don't think 3 x china opens, 1 x additional MR major, weighs up whatever difference you feel there is between a 9-ball and an 8-ball world championship? borrowing this list from insidesp.in's post in the harmonic field strength thread:

View attachment 885814

these are the most difficult tournaments on record. josh won china open 2017.

that fedor wasn't there some year isn't an argument, he's played several of them, 3-4 of the years that he could travel.

and yes, obviously it's rare and impressive to have a year like FSR or yapp. there's no discussion about that. but i think it's beside the point
Well the 8 ball world championship that he won was while the Vietnam open was going and was missing most of the world's best players, so actually, no it doesn't make up for it. But they're pretty evenly matched. Nineball, Filler is the best right now. All around, it's a toss up between a few players.
 
those 16 man invitationals will naturally have a higher fargo because the best players are invited, but i don't count them as majors personally. still high prestige events. check out the thread:


it's not gospel, fargo is a commercial product, but of course it's valuable and the best we have for comprehensive rating.

DCC 9b is a pro-am, fairly short race event on soft tables. i love DCC, it's top 3 for me in entertainment value, but i don't place it that high - compared to a MR major filler can blaze through the DCC 9-ball year after year.. he won't do that at US open or hanoi open.
Yeah I get that the WPM will have 16 of the highest Fargos that are invited. I just don't think it's as impressive as Filler winning the DCC 9ball THREE years in a row, which has over 700+ entries. If it was that easy for a pro-am, why aren't other pros blazing through it year after year?

I also don't place the DCC that high on the totem pole, It just tells me that Filler has the most stamina and would win in a long race against Fedor, because he can sustain a high level of play over a prolonged period of time.

Based on the harmonic field strength list you posted, Fedor did not participate in the 2019 China Open, nor the 2017, both of which Filler played in. The toughest tournament on that list, 2024 WPM, Fedor defeated Filler hill-hill.

I think the harmonic field strength list is pretty dumb. Having THREE invitational tournaments included in that list makes no sense. It's no wonder it only has 3 pages of discussion.

Despite all of this, I still think Filler is the best player on the planet and no stats can convince me otherwise based on what I am seeing with my own two eyes.
 
I see two separate questions: Who's the better rotation game player? And who's the better all-around player?

I give Filler a slight edge in the former, and Gorst a bigger edge in the latter.
 
Nineball, Filler is the best right now. All around, it's a toss up between a few players.

yea, three.. at least if we're talking 9b, 10b, 8b, 1p. can never count shane out. fedor and rogan was discussing an all around match against josh iirc, that would be much more interesting than a long 10b race.

i assume straight pool is out of any such discussion
 
yea, three.. at least if we're talking 9b, 10b, 8b, 1p. can never count shane out. fedor and rogan was discussing an all around match against josh iirc, that would be much more interesting than a long 10b race.

i assume straight pool is out of any such discussion
IMHO you don't need 9 and 10 ball, one or the other, and add banks.
 
Ask and ye shall receive.

You said:
Tell me about Jay Helfert.

ChatGPT said:​

Jay Helfert is best known within the professional pocket billiards (pool) community as a long-time player, promoter, writer, and personality connected to the sport’s culture and history. jayhelfert.com

🎱 Career & Role in Pool​

  • Jay Helfert has been active in the pool world for decades, engaging in many facets of the sport — including as a competitive player, tournament director, pool room owner, and television commentator. jayhelfert.com
  • He’s also recognized as an entrepreneur and promoter, involved in producing and directing major professional pool tournaments and related media. jayhelfert.com

📚 Author & Historian of the Game​

  • Helfert authored the book Pool Wars: On the Road to Hell and Back with the World’s Greatest Money Players, which recounts his personal experiences on the road, playing for stakes, and interacting with notable pool figures over a 40-year span. PR.com
  • The book combines memoir with a behind-the-scenes look at the culture of hustling and professional pool. PR.com

🃏 Poker Involvement​

  • In addition to his billiards career, Helfert has played in a number of live poker tournaments. According to historical poker records, he has recorded tournament cashes totaling over $234,000 in live poker events. SiteName

📍 Background & Location​

  • Public information lists him as located in Lawndale, California, USA, and having attended the University of Oklahoma in the early 1970s, where he studied journalism. wayup.com
If you’re interested, I can provide a summary of Pool Wars or tell you where you can purchase or access his work.

--------
They forgot to mention you're 95% Filipino 😂and Dennis Orcollo is your favorite player
Thank goodness, they left out the bad parts. :)
 
You said:
Tell me more about him

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — in pro-pool circles Jay Helfert is one of those figures you eventually hear about even if he was never a “world-title superstar.” He’s important because he represents something different: the connective tissue of American pool — the action scene, tournaments, media coverage, and oral history of the game. He has had influence for over half a century.

Below is a deeper profile so you understand why older players, one-pocket guys, and Accu-Stats viewers know his name immediately.


The type of player he actually was​

Helfert came up in the 1960s–1970s American road-player era — the tail end of what pool players call the action days. This was before structured tours and corporate sponsorships. A player’s income often came from:

  • gambling (“matching up”)
  • traveling from room to room
  • staking deals
  • side bets
People who knew him described him less as a tournament champion and more as a money player and game-maker — someone who could both play and arrange profitable matches. Danny DiLiberto said he “became more respected as a great game maker and money winner.” jayhelfert.com

In pool culture, that’s a very specific role. A game maker:

  • negotiates handicaps
  • arranges stakes
  • keeps matches fair enough that both sides will play
  • essentially acts as an unofficial match promoter
Those guys were vital in a sport that ran largely on cash action.


“Toupee Jay”​

Inside pool he’s also known as “Toupee Jay.”
Nicknames are common in action-room culture (e.g., “Minnesota Fats,” “The Beard,” “Kid Delicious”). Having a nickname usually means you were around the gambling circuit long enough to become a fixture.


Tournament directing & promoting​

Later, Helfert transitioned into the organized side of the sport and became a long-time tournament director and promoter.

Examples of his involvement:

  • Directed numerous regional and invitational events
  • Ran specialty matches and challenge events
  • Directed events such as the Hollywood Jack Memorial One-Pocket tournament onepocket.org
  • Was involved with major pro events including the U.S. Open 9-Ball in a directing role (at various points in the 2000s–2010s)
He also created the Tony Robles Sportsmanship Award, presented within the professional pool community. Billiards Digest

This matters because pool historically struggles with organization — tournament directors often influence whether events succeed financially.


Commentary & Accu-Stats​

If you’ve watched old Accu-Stats matches (especially one-pocket), you’ve probably heard him.

Helfert worked as a color commentator and analyst for Accu-Stats productions for many years. onepocket.org

Why he fits commentary:

  • encyclopedic memory of matches
  • personally knew many legends (Reyes, Varner, Hall, Allen, etc.)
  • could explain gambling context — something TV commentators usually couldn’t
Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats called him a “living historian” of pool. jayhelfert.com


Author & historian —​

His book Pool Wars: On the Road to Hell and Back with the World’s Greatest Money Players is actually why a lot of younger fans know him.

The book isn’t instruction — it’s documentation of:

  • stake horses
  • road players
  • hustling tactics
  • how matches were negotiated
  • personalities of the 70s–90s pool scene
In other words, it’s closer to an ethnography of American pool culture than a sports memoir.

Many pros value it because the “action era” wasn’t recorded on video. Without people like Helfert writing, a lot of pool history disappears.


Why he matters in pool history​

Jay Helfert is not famous for winning world championships.

He’s important because he sits in a rare category:

Player → gambler → promoter → commentator → historian

Very few people personally interacted with multiple generations:

  • road hustlers of the 60s
  • 80s American champions
  • Efren Reyes era
  • modern pro pool
He’s essentially an oral historian who was actually present.

In a sport where records are inconsistent and much happened in back rooms, that makes him disproportionately influential relative to his competitive resume.


Personality & reputation​

Within the community he’s known for:

  • strong opinions about match formats and handicapping
  • deep knowledge of one-pocket strategy
  • storytelling (sometimes blunt, sometimes controversial)
  • helping struggling players financially or by arranging action
He also tends to advocate for player fairness and tournament integrity, which is why he was often selected to run events.


If you want, I can also tell you why one-pocket players specifically respect him — that’s actually a separate story tied to how one-pocket survived when professional pool nearly collapsed in the 1990s.
Now I'm getting embarrassed. It feels like I just read my epitaph. Ouch.
 
🫥
 

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My take on this thread (aside from the stuff about me) is that when two great players collide either one can win on a given day. In this case, one day it will be Gorst and one day it's Filler. You can add a dozen or more guys to this group, all capable of beating each other. There's always room at the top if you play good enough. We will continue to see more great pool players as the prize money and prominence of our sport grows.

I will add only one comment that I made a long time ago when asked who was the best player. This was in the 1980's and there were many great players competing against each other in every tournament (try Buddy, Earl, Sigel, Miz, Rempe, Hopkins, Davenport, Varner, West, W. Crane, Efren, Parica, and more). I looked at the writer and this is what came to my mind first - "Buddy Hall has three speeds, Good, Better and Best!" He was the only player who never had an off day and never played a bad match. That was why he won more tournaments in his era than all the rest of them! Sigel and Earl were his greatest competition. I watched many epic matches between them, usually in the semis or finals of tournaments. As great as Earl was he often weakened facing Buddy. Sigel and Buddy was a stalemate, like Gorst and Filler.
 
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Please stop with the AI bs. I posted a AI song in NPR and really wish i hadn't. How bout we keep AZ AI free?? If You gotta do it lets put 'AI' in the thread headers.
Ummm, no.

Tell me about garczar from Azbilliards forum

Short answer:
“garczar” is not a pro player, cue-maker, or industry figure. He’s a long-time personality poster on the AZBilliards forums — basically one of the recognizable “regulars” in the online pool subculture. If you read enough AZB threads (especially the Main Forum and Wanted/For-Sale sections), you inevitably run into him. What makes him notable is his posting style and longevity more than any competitive résumé.

Below is the real breakdown so you understand why people even know that username.


1) What AZBilliards is (context matters)​

AZBilliards forums are the closest thing pool has to an old-school bulletin board — think:

  • league captains
  • gamblers
  • cue collectors
  • retired road players
  • tournament railbirds
It’s not Reddit-style casual conversation; it’s a reputation-based community. Long-time posters develop recognizable identities, and a handful become quasi-celebrities inside that ecosystem. “garczar” is one of those.


2) His status on the forum​

His account carries the “AzB Silver Member” rank (a tenure/activity designation) and he has been posting for years across multiple topics.

He shows up in:

  • cue buying/selling discussions
  • scam warnings
  • pro-tour debates
  • Matchroom/WNT format arguments
  • general pool culture threads
Example — warning about payment scams:

“Anyone that uses F&F to buy anything… deserves anything that happens.”
That’s very typical of him: blunt, opinionated, and zero sugar-coating.


3) His reputation (why people remember him)​

He’s known for three specific traits:

A. Extremely direct / abrasive posting style​

He talks like a poolroom rail — not like a moderated social media user.
Short sentences, sarcasm, insults, and profanity are common. For example, in a scam thread he called the perpetrator a “scumbag” and said he confronted him directly.

That style makes him:

  • entertaining to some
  • obnoxious to others
  • recognizable to everyone

B. “Old-school poolroom” perspective​

He typically represents the traditional American pool crowd viewpoint:

  • anti-scammers
  • skeptical of internet cue sales practices
  • critical of Matchroom decisions but pragmatic about influence (“email them directly, forum posts won’t change anything”).

C. Longevity​

He’s been around long enough that users literally notice when he disappears:
People posted threads asking where he went and hoping he was okay.

That only happens to posters who’ve been part of the forum culture for years.


5) What he is​

This is important because people outside AZB sometimes misunderstand:

He is not

  • a touring professional
  • a commentator
  • an AZBilliards staff member
  • a known gambler like Keith, Scott Frost, or SVB rail figures
He’s essentially a high-visibility railbird/enthusiast — but in pool culture, long-time railbirds often carry influence because they:

  • know equipment
  • follow tournaments closely
  • have been around players and rooms for decades

6) Why AZB users talk about him​

On AZBilliards, reputation is earned through consistency and personality.
Garczar is memorable because he:

  • posts often
  • argues without backing down
  • takes strong anti-scam positions
  • speaks like a real pool hall regular (not internet-polite)
In other words — he’s part of the forum’s “cast of characters.” Every old forum develops them.


#4 referred to your health situation so I decided to remove that out of respect.
 
Ummm, no.

Tell me about garczar from Azbilliards forum

Short answer:
“garczar” is not a pro player, cue-maker, or industry figure. He’s a long-time personality poster on the AZBilliards forums — basically one of the recognizable “regulars” in the online pool subculture. If you read enough AZB threads (especially the Main Forum and Wanted/For-Sale sections), you inevitably run into him. What makes him notable is his posting style and longevity more than any competitive résumé.

Below is the real breakdown so you understand why people even know that username.


1) What AZBilliards is (context matters)​

AZBilliards forums are the closest thing pool has to an old-school bulletin board — think:

  • league captains
  • gamblers
  • cue collectors
  • retired road players
  • tournament railbirds
It’s not Reddit-style casual conversation; it’s a reputation-based community. Long-time posters develop recognizable identities, and a handful become quasi-celebrities inside that ecosystem. “garczar” is one of those.


2) His status on the forum​

His account carries the “AzB Silver Member” rank (a tenure/activity designation) and he has been posting for years across multiple topics.

He shows up in:

  • cue buying/selling discussions
  • scam warnings
  • pro-tour debates
  • Matchroom/WNT format arguments
  • general pool culture threads
Example — warning about payment scams:


That’s very typical of him: blunt, opinionated, and zero sugar-coating.


3) His reputation (why people remember him)​

He’s known for three specific traits:

A. Extremely direct / abrasive posting style​

He talks like a poolroom rail — not like a moderated social media user.
Short sentences, sarcasm, insults, and profanity are common. For example, in a scam thread he called the perpetrator a “scumbag” and said he confronted him directly.

That style makes him:

  • entertaining to some
  • obnoxious to others
  • recognizable to everyone

B. “Old-school poolroom” perspective​

He typically represents the traditional American pool crowd viewpoint:

  • anti-scammers
  • skeptical of internet cue sales practices
  • critical of Matchroom decisions but pragmatic about influence (“email them directly, forum posts won’t change anything”).

C. Longevity​

He’s been around long enough that users literally notice when he disappears:
People posted threads asking where he went and hoping he was okay.

That only happens to posters who’ve been part of the forum culture for years.


5) What he is​

This is important because people outside AZB sometimes misunderstand:

He is not

  • a touring professional
  • a commentator
  • an AZBilliards staff member
  • a known gambler like Keith, Scott Frost, or SVB rail figures
He’s essentially a high-visibility railbird/enthusiast — but in pool culture, long-time railbirds often carry influence because they:

  • know equipment
  • follow tournaments closely
  • have been around players and rooms for decades

6) Why AZB users talk about him​

On AZBilliards, reputation is earned through consistency and personality.
Garczar is memorable because he:

  • posts often
  • argues without backing down
  • takes strong anti-scam positions
  • speaks like a real pool hall regular (not internet-polite)
In other words — he’s part of the forum’s “cast of characters.” Every old forum develops them.


#4 referred to your health situation so I decided to remove that out of respect.
FK AI. Welcome to ignore smartass. Really sad that one has so little actual thoughts he has to ask a computer for help.
 
At least you show up. I just have memories.lol. I remember when I started streaming and was streaming pedro's 3 cushion tourney you commenting about seeing me everywhere doing everything, but I don't even show up in chat gpt....
You definitely show up in ChatGPT.
 
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