filler is a great player, we don't need his accomplishments. In my opinion, WNT events are the measuring stick. Fedor finally broke through and won 3 major titles last year, he beat filler in the final of one. For it to be a rivalry, filler has beat him in some of these finals. Simply saying he and Fedor have won all these tournaments historically doesn't make it a rivalry imo. There isn't a Celtics Lakers rivalry if the Lakers never won titles.
WNT and WPA. Frazer says…
- Thread starter jbart65
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Fedor won two majors last year, the US Open and the World 9ball. WPM was a 16-player invitational single elimination event that took just four match wins to capture the title. Calling it a major is delusional. The Challenge of Champions, in which Josh beat Fedor at both 10ball and 9ball to win the title, was as tough a title to win as the WPM, but like WPM, it's not a major. Invitationals are not majors. Majors, in general, are events having large fields (128+) with significant representation from the stars of America, Europe and Asia.
Agreed that the Matchroom produced large field WNT events are majors, but it can be easily argued that the China Open has been, over the years, harder to win than the US Open 9ball. It can also be argued that the Derby City Master of Table is a major, and it was Filler who won it in 2024, at Gorst's expense. To his credit, Gorst recaptured it in 2025. No, the WNT events are not the true measuring sticks, they are just among the measuring sticks of greatness in our game.
You don't think that four hookups between Fedor and Josh in the past four months in key spots, in which each of them won twice, makes it a rivalry? What then, is a rivalry? While I respect your opinion, you are probably alone in the view that this is not a great rivalry. As a regular attendee at major events, I can tell you that no matchup brings a greater buzz among the attendees than a Gorst vs Filler match.
Each of the world's top two has taken the other's lunch money on numerous occasions and the buzz is real anytime they meet. If I had to guess, I'd say Josh has a winning record head-to-head vs Fedor, but it's definitely close.
I can't wait for their next match. Guessing you can.
i agree, a major to me is a pro tournament with big prize money + big field. i would LIKE to see tradition play some part in what constitutes a major, but the pool world has changed so much from year to year recently, so i just settle on those two criteria. with money being the most important factor.
never thought of DCC MoT as a major but when you think about it, it's usually 20k + 20-30k thou and a hell of a feat.
filler has been underperforming in WNT majors lately. i think he may have a chip on his shoulder this time (mosconi cup), and he's plowing through the field. shane played one of the best matches i've seen on these tables yesterday, and they're on different halves of the bracket, so a svb - filler final would be cool!
Well said about tradition being part of what makes a major a major. In this context, there are probably only four majors, namely the World 9ball, the US Open 9ball, the China Open 9ball, and the All-Japan.
WNT is a three-year-old tour, so its majors other than the World 9ball and the US Open 9ball, haven't had time to build that tradition of which you speak, but a few years down the road, these events will be old and established. The same must be said of 10ball majors like the World 10ball and Qatar 10ball (formerly the Qatar 9ball).
The DCC Master of the Table invariably walks away with at least $40,000 and usually more. Filler's haul last year was about $75,000 and Fedor walked away with about $60,000 this year. While I would not agree, I've heard some of the pool guru's I respect the most call the DCC Master of the Table the hardest title to win in pool.
Agreed. Josh went zero for 2024 at the Matchroom majors, and when you are, arguably, the best 9ball player in the world, nothing less than a title is ever good enough. We'll see, if he plays the WNT events, if he wins one this year.
The top few guys can all beat each other in a race to eleven, and that's why it's so much fun to watch. Trying to predict the winner at a major is awfully difficult.
We're nearly at the point where the best players will start to draw each other at the European Open, so will soon see who will catch that special stroke that might help them blaze a trail to victory.
As for Shane, I'd love to see him win another 9ball major. With Gorst sitting this one out, this might be his best chance in 2025. Wish him the best!
Am I remembering correctly that they also faced each other as Juniors multiple times as well? If so, that would add an extra layer of spice to the rivalry. Longevity can also add to the lore of rivalry. Even if they don't meet in the finals of the majority of tourneys, if they are still swapping places as the best in the world 10 years from now, we will all be blessed for having witnessed it.
With SVB in the twilight of his career, the US needs a contender to excite the more casual fans here. I remember, in pro tennis, the heyday of the Pete Sampras- Andre Agassi rivalry and what it did for the sports popularity here among non- hardcore fans. When men's tennis went through the eras of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic excitement waned for the men's game stateside, IMO because there were no competitive Americans, except an occasional win from Roddick. This coincided with the rise of Davenport, Serena, and Venus, and thus the women's game became more popular (Again, my opinion only)
Here is hoping that health and life circumstances allow Feder-Filler to continue battling it out for years to come.
No idea about the Juniors. Josh is 27, Fedor is 25, so it is probable their rivalry began in the juniors. I'm sure there is someone on the forum that knows for sure. I cannot imagine that they will still be the top two year after year. There is always quickly rising talent. For example, the 21-year-old Moritz Neuhausen, Fargo 807, just earned a spot in Day 5 at the European Open.
Point well taken, but, despite an early exit at the European Open, Shane is still playing as well as he ever has. I feel confident he has another 9ball major in him. That said, we'd all like to see another elite American-born player in the mix, and I'm sure Matchroom wants it every bit as much as I do. Perhaps 22-year-old Lukas Fracasso Verner of Connecticut, already Fargo 750, will take that next step soon.
Yeah, this rivalry could bloom into the best rivalry since Sigel and Varner.
Wow! thanks, Mike. You've missed the Predator Challenge of Champions from November 2024, which immediately preceded the Predator 10ball event in Puerto Rico. At the Challenge of Champions, Josh and Fedor met three times. Josh beat Fedor at 10-ball, Fedor beat Josh at 8-ball, and then, in the grand final, Josh beat Fedor at 9ball.
So, while you show Filler having a 12-10 match record vs Gorst, it is actually 14-11.
The most exciting thing about this rivalry is that the best may be yet to come!
the european open shows why they need to work this shit out. stellar play from the "WPA players" as well as from the WNT players. but it shouldn't be two camps like this, it's ridiculous
Badpenguin
Well-known member
If the travel ban is implemented that includes Russia and Belarus, any further Gorst/Filler rivalry won't be fought out on US soil. I wouldn't be surprised to see Matchroom's business in the US become unsustainable in the near future.
Gorst has a green card.
No way. please. MR's US stuff will go on as usual.
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Yeah I don't think that really matters to these people, lol.