Women and pool

As far as men playing women I think the big question is, are you going to do better by winning or by losing. Now we all know that if your going to lose, you don't let on like you did it on purpose or that you didn't give it your best effort. I've seen some big smiles when I've fooled around enough that a gal beats me. Then they always say 'You just left me win, didn't you?' They say it as a question rather than a statement because they want to hear it, they want to hear you say, 'Nope, you beat me'. Then the smile gets even bigger. The bigger the smile, the better chance of getting lucky. Not many of them smile if you win. :D
 
What

CaptainJR said:
As far as men playing women I think the big question is, are you going to do better by winning or by losing. Now we all know that if your going to lose, you don't let on like you did it on purpose or that you didn't give it your best effort. I've seen some big smiles when I've fooled around enough that a gal beats me. Then they always say 'You just left me win, didn't you?' They say it as a question rather than a statement because they want to hear it, they want to hear you say, 'Nope, you beat me'. Then the smile gets even bigger. The bigger the smile, the better chance of getting lucky. Not many of them smile if you win. :D
Click to expand...

Do you think this would happen on an ESPN televised tournament event??????
The only luck you would have would be bad luck because you are now either in the losers bracket or worse yet knocked out of the tournament.
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
Do you think this would happen on an ESPN televised tournament event??????
The only luck you would have would be bad luck because you are now either in the losers bracket or worse yet knocked out of the tournament.
Click to expand...


Relax Kevin, just a little light humor. Obviously I was talking about casual play not TV matches.
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
I believe even Corey Duele would disagree with this as you must see his effective "soft break". With or without the differences in breaks I would take Eferen, Earl, Johnny, Corey and quite a few other men over even the top 3 women and feel confident that the men would win me the money. In addtion I feel that the difference between the men and women get even greater if we were to take the ranked numbered 10-20 top men and women a match them up for the cash. In most instances my cash would be behind the men. I am not trying to offend anyone here with my comments just trying to figure out what it is that seperates the talent or ability of the men from the women in the game of pool.
Click to expand...

KL,
I think you and the other poster misunderstand the so-called "soft break." Under certain table conditions you may find a place on the table and a speed at which you can reliably make a ball and get position; but I'm not sure how often this occurs (it DEFINITELY does not work on all tables or with all racks). I noticed at DCC Corey was breaking like everyone else. What do you suggest the women do if the soft break isn't working? I will tell you that in long gambling sessions or long races the power breakers have a HUGE advantage over the soft breakers. When those players like Rodney Morris or Francisco Bustamante or George Breedlove are making 2, 3, or 4 balls on the break they have a BIG advantage over the soft-breakers. The fewer balls on the table, the higher the runout percentage for the player with control of the table. On any type of medium to loose equipment, these power players will have a big advantage over the soft-breakers, and a huge advantage over the women (who do not have the option of ramping up the speed to adjust to table conditions).

I will also agree that there is a definite difference in skill level for women outside the top 5; I like the "cream of a smaller crop" analogy.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Ok, don't flame me too bad :)

For the life of me, I can't understand why....... at the professional level..... there needs to be a separate division for women.

Can anyone explain to me why they can't ( or won't ) compete with men at this level?

Dave
Click to expand...

The women won't/shouldn't/and legally can't compete among the men. The WPBA forbids its members from competing in most national men's events, especially if it will have televised matches. They have the better product and they don't want it diluted. A handful do compete in the Joss Tour/Tri-State Tour (local events). Trust me, Karen Corr is a tough draw in any tournament she plays in. Ask any of the women. Ask any of the men. She may not be Efren Reyes but she's no slouch, either.
 
Williebetmore said:
On any type of medium to loose equipment, these power players will have a big advantage over the soft-breakers, and a huge advantage over the women (who do not have the option of ramping up the speed to adjust to table conditions).

I will also agree that there is a definite difference in skill level for women outside the top 5; I like the "cream of a smaller crop" analogy.
Click to expand...

My 3 cents.... I know of at least two women players whose breaks can hang with the boys, namely Rousey and Nelson. I also want to point out that at the DCC in '04 Rousey hung with the boys extremely well...finished 20th. Plus, while Corr hasn't scored a first place finish on the Joss tour, she does get up there in the ranks. I think there are pros and cons for both sexes in relationship to playability, but outside of the break, one's ability to pocket balls, gain position, and deliver perfect safeties are what affects the out come of the game, not one's gender.

Man, hasn't this been discussed like at least every 4 months??? :confused:
 
landshark77 said:
My 3 cents.... I know of at least two women players whose breaks can hang with the boys, namely Rousey and Nelson. I also want to point out that at the DCC in '04 Rousey hung with the boys extremely well...finished 20th. Plus, while Corr hasn't scored a first place finish on the Joss tour, she does get up there in the ranks. I think there are pros and cons for both sexes in relationship to playability, but outside of the break, one's ability to pocket balls, gain position, and deliver perfect safeties are what affects the out come of the game, not one's gender.

Man, hasn't this been discussed like at least every 4 months??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Actually I think Karen HAS come in 1st in a Joss Tour event, maybe more than one.

Without opening the "why" can of worms, IMO the top women can not compete long-term succcessfully with the top men and further the average women is even less capable of competing with the average man. Whether it is due to physiology or environment is really a moot point, the fact is at this point in time they can't compete evenly.

Also judging from the limited number of women's events I've seen, which I admit is a very small sample, it seems like the quality of women's play drops off quicker as you go down the ranks than it does with the men. Why would Allison or Karen want to go compete with men and be just another player when they can be the top of the WPBA world. Even if they were as good as the top men they could not possibly dominate as they do in the WPBA. No single man dominates the men's world of pool why should anyone think any one or two women will.

Oddly enough I think the relative scarcity of women players contributes to the success of the WPBA. I think there are just so many skilled men that they are always pealing off and starting competing tours and organizations (sp?), but the women can't afford to split up into competing organizations and they're smart enough to be aware of these and maintain a cohesive single organization.
 
landshark77 said:
My 3 cents.... I know of at least two women players whose breaks can hang with the boys, namely Rousey and Nelson.Man, hasn't this been discussed like at least every 4 months??? :confused:
Click to expand...

LS77,
You know I'm a big fan of Sarah's; but I've never seen any of the women break at near the speed of the men. In our recent "pool school", several of the women pro's were clocked at 19mph at their best (trying for their fastest break). Helena T (at the same table) achieved only 21 mph. The men pro's break around 25 or 26 mph during competition (including George B., who at the same tables tried 2 breaks for maximum speed, and clocked 34 mph then 37 mph). Do you think Sarah and Tiffany break that much harder than Helena?? When I observed Sarah at DCC 2 years ago, her break looked great, but still not as hard as most of the men - maybe she will weigh in on the subject (I value her opinion over mine).
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The women won't/shouldn't/and legally can't compete among the men. The WPBA forbids its members from competing in most national men's events, especially if it will have televised matches. They have the better product and they don't want it diluted. A handful do compete in the Joss Tour/Tri-State Tour (local events). Trust me, Karen Corr is a tough draw in any tournament she plays in. Ask any of the women. Ask any of the men. She may not be Efren Reyes but she's no slouch, either.
Click to expand...

You know, i watched her chop up MIKA a couple of times at JOSS events.
Like she was his NEMESIS. Pretty funny when i think back on it.
She was like any other player....she got out when she had to.


I remember Mika actually talking to himself afterwards after one loss.
I think the time at SNOOKERS a few years ago, she was down a pretty big margin, and came back to win. It was a great match.

Shaking his head. (not that he's known as the greatest sportsman when he loses), but he definitely had some respect for the fact that she tortured him.

SUPERSTAR
 
OldHasBeen said:
Dave - WHY WOULD THE WOMEN WANT TO PLAY WITH THE MEN?
They are currently the only REAL winners of the tournament $. They have found a good way to market their product and are the most successful as far as sponsorship, viewer ship, and endorsements.
What do they need the men for? The men don't or won't WORK TOGETHER for the future. They are only interested in today & tomorrow and anything that takes cooperation and doesn’t treat them like primadonnas, they won't get involved in.

TY & GL
Click to expand...

Exactly!!!!! The top half dozen women are a ball better than the next dozen and two or three balls better than the rest.

Wouldn't you love those odds when the top prize is 10 big ones?

They would be NUTS to start playing the men where they would be one, two or three ball underdogs against a whole lot of men.

Just ask Grady what he would play Allison for if they ever played for real. And she is the top lady right now.

Jake
 
Williebetmore said:
LS77,
You know I'm a big fan of Sarah's; but I've never seen any of the women break at near the speed of the men. In our recent "pool school", several of the women pro's were clocked at 19mph at their best (trying for their fastest break). Helena T (at the same table) achieved only 21 mph. The men pro's break around 25 or 26 mph during competition (including George B., who at the same tables tried 2 breaks for maximum speed, and clocked 34 mph then 37 mph). Do you think Sarah and Tiffany break that much harder than Helena?? When I observed Sarah at DCC 2 years ago, her break looked great, but still not as hard as most of the men - maybe she will weigh in on the subject (I value her opinion over mine).
Click to expand...

Willie, I can not speculate on Tiffany's break speed, but Sarah has had documented cases in the EXTREMELY high 20's (close to 30).
 
catscradle said:
Actually I think Karen HAS come in 1st in a Joss Tour event, maybe more than one.

Without opening the "why" can of worms, IMO the top women can not compete long-term succcessfully with the top men and further the average women is even less capable of competing with the average man. Whether it is due to physiology or environment is really a moot point, the fact is at this point in time they can't compete evenly.

Also judging from the limited number of women's events I've seen, which I admit is a very small sample, it seems like the quality of women's play drops off quicker as you go down the ranks than it does with the men. Why would Allison or Karen want to go compete with men and be just another player when they can be the top of the WPBA world. Even if they were as good as the top men they could not possibly dominate as they do in the WPBA. No single man dominates the men's world of pool why should anyone think any one or two women will.

Oddly enough I think the relative scarcity of women players contributes to the success of the WPBA. I think there are just so many skilled men that they are always pealing off and starting competing tours and organizations (sp?), but the women can't afford to split up into competing organizations and they're smart enough to be aware of these and maintain a cohesive single organization.
Click to expand...

well said and I agree whole heartidly
 
catscradle said:
Actually I think Karen HAS come in 1st in a Joss Tour event, maybe more than one.
Click to expand...


Unless my memory is failing me, no she hasn't. She has done very, very well though. I believe she took 2nd in the Ocean State a few years ago.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Unless my memory is failing me, no she hasn't. She has done very, very well though. I believe she took 2nd in the Ocean State a few years ago.
Click to expand...

Jude,

How's it going. I'm almost positive I remember her double-dipping Rempe in one of the Joss events. I can almost guarantee that she has won at least one event.

Koop
 
SUPERSTAR said:
You know, i watched her chop up MIKA a couple of times at JOSS events.
Like she was his NEMESIS. Pretty funny when i think back on it.
She was like any other player....she got out when she had to.


I remember Mika actually talking to himself afterwards after one loss.
I think the time at SNOOKERS a few years ago, she was down a pretty big margin, and came back to win. It was a great match.

Shaking his head. (not that he's known as the greatest sportsman when he loses), but he definitely had some respect for the fact that she tortured him.

SUPERSTAR
Click to expand...


A few years ago, Karen played in the Ocean State and lost her first-round match to Robert Saez in a field of about 100 players. She didn't get a bye yet proceeded to tear-up the losers' side beating Tony Robles to finish 5th. For those of you that haven't been graced by Tony's presence, the man plays JAM-UP! Only champions beat Tony Robles. Only champions.

I wasn't there when she beat Flaco in the semis the following year. When she was up 8-0 and finally missed, Flaco turned and said to her, "So it's okay if I win one?"

On top of all that, she's nothing but class. She's quiet, reserved and respectful. She lets her game speak for itself.
 
DDKoop said:
Jude,

How's it going. I'm almost positive I remember her double-dipping Rempe in one of the Joss events. I can almost guarantee that she has won at least one event.

Koop
Click to expand...


Hey Dave, it's going well. Honestly, I can't remember her winning one. It definately wasn't this season (I checked) and I can't remember any seasons prior. She has come close though, I can remember that much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top