Women v Men - Case Closed?

I agree with the areas of the brain determine why men are better at most sports especially the one that require a great deal of focus. I have held this theory for a quite a while. Most men and women will agree that men can usually only do one thing at once, but we generally do it better then women because we only use that one portion of our brain. Women will use more than one area of the brain and will think more about the consequences of their choice at the time of execution. Of course this is not always true but many studies have proven the fact the areas of the brain that are used.

Tom C - Just adding my thoughts
 
TX Poolnut said:
I don't think Allison Fisher did too well in Orlando. She was knocked out after the first day of round robin play. The only woman to survive more than a day was Ms. Corr. Additionally, the HOF women fared the same as Allison once they were seeded. None of them survived after the first day of their play.
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Hi TXP,
I think Allison's performance other than her breaking was near to as good as any man there. She only made a couple of break and runs, as she hardly made any balls of the break.

What was interesting to note was how calm and confident she was, so much so that it was Niels Feijin who looked like the beginner when he was playing and losing to her.

With a half decent break she'd have no doubt got through, and been competitive in the later rounds I feel...based on what I watched.

I know you were there too...did you watch her matches?

Col <~The Shanghai Battler
 
TX Poolnut said:
I don't think Allison Fisher did too well in Orlando. She was knocked out after the first day of round robin play. The only woman to survive more than a day was Ms. Corr. Additionally, the HOF women fared the same as Allison once they were seeded. None of them survived after the first day of their play.
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She beat Neils Feijen, an 8 ball champion 8-5, drilled Allen Hopkins 8-2 and beat some other guy in her group, thus a winning record against the men. Earl Strickland didnt advance. Point is she competed very well and proved that she can play with the very best.
 
The Brain

T. Cox said:
I agree with the areas of the brain determine why men are better at most sports especially the one that require a great deal of focus. I have held this theory for a quite a while. Most men and women will agree that men can usually only do one thing at once, but we generally do it better then women because we only use that one portion of our brain. Women will use more than one area of the brain and will think more about the consequences of their choice at the time of execution. Of course this is not always true but many studies have proven the fact the areas of the brain that are used.

Tom C - Just adding my thoughts
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I've always thought that women have allot more going on in their minds during a situation and therefore wondered if this in turn caused more distractions, and in turn hurt their focus. Its like they also will notice colors and smells etc. (generalization) also when pocketing a ball. But on the other hand it could easily give them an edge, it just makes it harder to control distractions, therefore making execution more difficult. Years ago, all the top male players were asked, "if you could tell a players what the most important thing to play well" and the one response that sticks with me the most, and Buddy Hall was amongst this group, was what Fats said, "avoid distractions".
 
I like the point Colin made about percentages of women vs. men playing the game. Consider 1000 men and 50 women take the game seriously, statistically the men are more favorable at the top and the bottom. This means that the men should have more of the worst and more of the best players.

Another factor is newness of the game. Men have always dominated the sport in pool halls and women have only begun gathering serious players over the past 10 years. I think the best way to measure this is whenever you visit a pool hall patronized by the stronger players, how many women do you see competing with the men. (Please discount leagues, these tend to be more social events.) The fact is you do not see many.

Next, thanks for the post Donovan, there is a difference in how the minds of both men and women process. Maybe these differences might also create one sided advantages too for the women. Keep in mind that our learning has been male dominant. I could parallel this to "everything is made for right handed people", which is mostly true. Well maybe because of male dominance our training is male favored. I don't know, but it could be.

I do think that as Cornerman said, men use more finesse than women. On the other hand women may pattern better than men minimizing the need for finesse. I have seen some very competitive women so this one would not count.

Finally to place ourselves in a group of men and women, does not mean that we all characterize with that group. After all how many wimpy uncoordinated men that never made a high school or college team have you heard say, "women could never make the team".
 
Colin Colenso said:
Hi TXP,
I think Allison's performance other than her breaking was near to as good as any man there. She only made a couple of break and runs, as she hardly made any balls of the break.

What was interesting to note was how calm and confident she was, so much so that it was Niels Feijin who looked like the beginner when he was playing and losing to her.

With a half decent break she'd have no doubt got through, and been competitive in the later rounds I feel...based on what I watched.

I know you were there too...did you watch her matches?

Col <~The Shanghai Battler
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Interesting thought Shanghai. The thing that I was wondering is the thought about verbal. Women use twice as many words as men. Here is where this leads me though.

AGAIN SPEAKING GENERALLY...

Women do communicate more than men.
We don't verbally communicate very much during a match.

In longer matches or tournaments, does this make women get tighter as a match goes on? The fact that they are not getting there normal dosage of verbal communication, is that having an effect with nerves or aggression inside? Simply I mean do they get to vent enough to stay calm inside?

For example: Many people become chatty when they are nervous to ease the tension. This was just another thought thrown out there.

I still believe that the more women practice and play, the more this kind of stuff can be easier to overcome or compisate for. Karen and Allison hardly ever seem nervous, but they seem to be putting themselves in those situations to overcome this stuff the more often. Keeping in mind the margin of men over women in pool also makes it easier to focus on the women.

I still think much of this will get easier, it is just interesting seeing the phisological effects or wondering if that is effecting any of this.
 
Allison and Karen and other top players must have the focus thing down pretty well. But one woman I've occasionally hit with over the past few years has told me that during a match she'll sometimes have these thoughts, like: Did she REALLY MEAN it when she said THAT (8 hours ago, 3 days ago, lol)!!! From comments I've heard around here, I don't think that's so unusual. But totally bizarre to me and probably to most men.
 
I think everyone has made great points. I have stated before that I think the women have the capability to be at the same level as men, it just isn't equal right now. I have a few different reasons for that and none of them have to do with physical strength.

1. Women have to deal with alot more in the pool room than men do. If you are a woman, just try going to the pool room and try to practice seriously. Just see how many men stop by to say, "hey you play pretty good" and so on. Just last night at the pool room, during the local tournament, I was playign a match and someone who didn't know me came up and started talking to me. He kept saying "wow, I guess you didn't just start last week." or, "you play quit well, thats amazing." I know that if that was a man that he was watching he wouldn't have been saying anything. It is something that breaks your concentration. Or think of the comments coming from the guys in the pool room. They may put you down or get offended when you beat them. As far as I see it we should all be equal. Everyone is just a fellow pool player when you are competing. (I am just joking around when I say "oh but I'm a girl")

2. Women are taught to be nurturing and caring rather than having that, go for the jugular, killer-instinct. For some reason women care too much about hurting someones feelings.

3. I have noticed that alot of women want to make pool a social gathering during competition. As far as I see it we can be friends and talk before and after the match, but please, while we are playing...you are my enemy.

4. For so long women have been told they are below men in sports. I know that sounds lame and it shouldn't have any bearing on the "younger generation" but I think that it does. This is an obstacle that is beginning to go away, but I think it will take time.

Anyway, that is just my opinion and a womans point of view. I think it is great that Karen gets out there and beats on the men, whether it be on the IPT or Joss Tour. I can only hope (and practice) to follow in her footsteps.

Sorry for rambling.
Sarah
 
sarahrousey said:
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1. Women have to deal with alot more in the pool room than men do. If you are a woman, just try going to the pool room and try to practice seriously. Just see how many men stop by to say, "hey you play pretty good" and so on. Just last night at the pool room, during the local tournament, I was playign a match and someone who didn't know me came up and started talking to me. He kept saying "wow, I guess you didn't just start last week." or, "you play quit well, thats amazing." I know that if that was a man that he was watching he wouldn't have been saying anything. It is something that breaks your concentration. Or think of the comments coming from the guys in the pool room. They may put you down or get offended when you beat them. As far as I see it we should all be equal. Everyone is just a fellow pool player when you are competing. (I am just joking around when I say "oh but I'm a girl")
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Very good point. If people distracted a guy like this he would most likely kick the crap out them.

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Anyway, that is just my opinion and a womans point of view. I think it is great that Karen gets out there and beats on the men, whether it be on the IPT or Joss Tour. I can only hope (and practice) to follow in her footsteps.

Sorry for rambling.
Sarah
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Great points. And I do beleive that the truth comes out in time.
 
OK I will go ahead and say what no one has said in this thread yet.

Is it any coincidence that the top women players seem to always be lesbians?
 
TheOne said:
Given Allisons and Karen's impressive results is the case now closed, and does this mean all the other women below the top few women have no excuse and should be raising their game?
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IMO, the case has been closed since adam and eve. We shouldn't kid ourselves...men and women are physically built differently. The average man will always have a physical advantage over the average woman in any physical sport (maybe except for the balance beam in gymnastics). I agree that social factors only add to women's disadvantage...but social factors aside, men will always have an advantage just because of biology.

This makes the accomplishments of Corr and Fisher that much more extraordinary. For them to compete side-by-side with the top male players of the world certainly is a testament to their outstanding and exceptional talent as female players!
 
jsp said:
IMO, the case has been closed since adam and eve. We shouldn't kid ourselves...men and women are physically built differently. The average man will always have a physical advantage over the average woman in any physical sport (maybe except for the balance beam in gymnastics). I agree that social factors only add to women's disadvantage...but social factors aside, men will always have an advantage just because of biology.

This makes the accomplishments of Corr and Fisher that much more extraordinary. For them to compete side-by-side with the top male players of the world certainly is a testament to their outstanding and exceptional talent as female players!
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Ok then-Just detail the physical differences and advise how each translates to a difference in pool. Forget the break-Corey does just fine breaking softer than 99.9% of the women on tour.
 
uwate said:
OK I will go ahead and say what no one has said in this thread yet.

Is it any coincidence that the top women players seem to always be lesbians?
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That is the other point that I left out. There is nothing wrong with whatever sexual preference a person has, everyone has a right to be happy. But it could make a difference. Not that the women can't have families, not many of them do. I know when I decide that it's time to get married and have kids, it will take away from my pool game for a while, if not for good. Not many of the players at the top have children. Or maybe it could be because some of the women don't have men to give them a hard time...just kidding. I forgot to make that point.
 
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sarahrousey said:
That is the other point that I left out. There is nothing wrong with whatever sexual preference a person has, everyone has a right to be happy. But it could make a difference. Not that the women can't have families, not many of them do. I know when I decide that it's time to get married and have kids, it will take away from my pool game for a while, if not for good. Not many of the players at the top have children. Or maybe it could be because some of the women don't have men to give them a hard time...just kidding. I forgot to make that point.
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I noticed that many top pool players in general are also single and without family responsibility, that is until they are much older. I'm not saying they are suppose to. In other sports, the top guns, seem to get married and have families early in their career. This is probably best in another thread.
 
sarahrousey said:
That is the other point that I left out. There is nothing wrong with whatever sexual preference a person has, everyone has a right to be happy. But it could make a difference. Not that the women can't have families, not many of them do. I know when I decide that it's time to get married and have kids, it will take away from my pool game for a while, if not for good. Not many of the players at the top have children. Or maybe it could be because some of the women don't have men to give them a hard time...just kidding. I forgot to make that point.
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This is a crazy fact (I can't remember where I read this...I think is was a Scientific American Magazine), but it is also true that women who have children can become "smarter." By this silly remark, I mean that when a woman has a child, the hormonal process that she goes through, gives her brain a certain boost that allows them to expand her conceptual thinking. I KNOW! I thought the same thing. That isn't very fair, but what an odd thing science found on the nurturing thing. It sometimes seems as though there is always something that has to be proven to keep the nurturing thing in check, fair or not. Please don't kill the messenger.
 
pete lafond said:
In other sports, the top guns, seem to get married and have families early in their career. This is probably best in another thread.
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I don't think that is generally the case, especially in the majority of physically strenuous sports where the top participants tend to have be aged around 21-22, which is young to get married anyway. In sports where the average participants are older then the likelyhood of relationships and families gets higher just by the normal pressures of society.

Another other main factor is simply money. If you are earning enough at a sport it is much easier to setup and maintain a family as you can afford to travel with them and/or pay for expensive child-care services. And let's face it; there are plenty of people willing to get into a relationship with, say, a top-10 ranked Tennis player simply for the thrill of being with an rich international star regardless of the quality of the relationship.

As and when Pool players reach that level of income and fame the same will doubtlessly apply.

Finally there is simple practicality - When major Pool tournaments are held in actual Pool Halls there are little or no facilities for family accomodation. When they are held in locations like venues with good facilities for both families and players (EG The recent Mosconi Cup at the MGM Grand Las Vegas) it is much easier and attractive for families of players to join them during the tournament.
 
Sarah, glad you jumped in on this. Of course, sex orientation aside, Mr. Turkey Baster could complicate a budding career, right?

A nonplaying family is an everpresent threat to anybody's game, no matter how humble. For instance, I just got a call at work from my spouse, saying she feels a LITTLE funny, and THINKS she undercooked some chicken for herself (and probably not, but MAYBE for our 2-year-olds) and I probably better hustle home quick, no matter that (or exactly because!) I've got my cues under my desk and am 5 minutes from freedom and the poolhall oasis.
 
I think Mr.Wilson said it best when he stated we should just wait and see what happens, one tournament is definitely too soon to be making judgements on how the women will fair against the men. After about a year we will have a better idea and standings to go by to give us a better picture.
 
sniper said:
I think Mr.Wilson said it best when he stated we should just wait and see what happens, one tournament is definitely too soon to be making judgements on how the women will fair against the men. After about a year we will have a better idea and standings to go by to give us a better picture.
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I still think a year is not enough time with what, 8 tournaments, to move out the guy vs gal emotional strain of women "having" to prove themselves mentality. If these type of tournaments keep going, maybe in a few years we will see. I mean the end of the first year the big talk will be how did the girls play. Maybe that won't ever go away, but it should get down played after a couple of years. Then everyone can just play.
 
Donovan said:
I still think a year is not enough time with what, 8 tournaments, to move out the guy vs gal emotional strain of women "having" to prove themselves mentality. If these type of tournaments keep going, maybe in a few years we will see. I mean the end of the first year the big talk will be how did the girls play. Maybe that won't ever go away, but it should get down played after a couple of years. Then everyone can just play.
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I see what your saying Donovan but a year will definitely give us a better picture than one tournament.
 
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