Wondering Why Corey Deuel, Mika, etc. Play so Good?

[LastTwo]

Here is a link to a video of Corey and Mika playing wearing headcams. It gives you a view like you are down shooting the shot. This is very innovative: http://www.ppvportal.com/worldpool/home.asp

If you are wondering why these guys play so good, aside from having a ton of heart, experience, and intelligence, just watch their strokes. Look at Corey's, for example. His stroke is absoloutely perfect. It's dead straight, goes thru the cueball like the cueball doesn't even exist, and there is no flinching of the stroke, i.e. making the cue take a nose dive in the middle of the stroke. There is no movement of the tip when he is at the cueball, it is perfectly steady. This is what separates us from them. When you have a stroke this straight, the game becomes fairly simple. You would be amazed at how well you can shoot with a perfect stroke like this. When you achieve that stroke, the game becomes all mental, and the only physical part left is endurance.

Anyways, this is well worth the couple dollars to download the full match, COMPARE your stroke against theirs and you will see a huge difference, unless you play as good as them

 

[Timberly]

If you are wondering why these guys play so good, aside from having a ton of heart, experience, and intelligence,

No one will ever convince me otherwise that you have to have natural born talent to reach the level that Coery & Mika play on. Sure, people with less natural talent can reach fairly high levels from being coached and practicing but I don't think just anyone can force themselves onto a certain level of pool. Corey, Rodney, Johnny, Mika.....They were born with the talent. If you're not at that level now, then you probably never will be. I'm not knocking you or your game. I just think that some people are born with the talent and others, while they try their damndest for yrs, just can't reach that level.

 

[Hal]

I'm not gonna say it, but I'm sure someone will.

 

[Timberly]

I'm not gonna say it, but I'm sure someone will.

go ahead, it's early in the morning and not many are here.

 

[LastTwo]

No one will ever convince me otherwise that you have to have natural born talent to reach the level that Coery & Mika play on. Sure, people with less natural talent can reach fairly high levels from being coached and practicing but I don't think just anyone can force themselves onto a certain level of pool. Corey, Rodney, Johnny, Mika.....They were born with the talent. If you're not at that level now, then you probably never will be. I'm not knocking you or your game. I just think that some people are born with the talent and others, while they try their damndest for yrs, just can't reach that level.

They try their damdest for years and don't reach that level because something either mentally or in their physical mechanics is holding them back, i.e. a perfect stroke or eyesight, etc. Some people are just hard headed and wont fix the flaws that other people spot, and some people try to fix flaws but create new ones in the process and thus keeps their game at the same level or worse. If you find me someone who has an absoloutely perfect stroke and mechanics, has been playing alot for years and years, and can't run 3 balls, then I'll shoot myself in the foot. My point is that SOOOOOO many people out there think their strokes are straight, but they are not. Once you start stroking straight repeatedly (GET RID OF THAT DIRTY THOUGHT RIGHT NOW!!! ) it opens up this new perspective of the game, it does something to your subconcious that makes everything seem very easy. When I am in dead stroke I get like this, I can visually see the difference in my stroke as opposed to an average day. I know that a perfect stroke is not all there is to pool, but I think it's a good whopping 70% of how good someone can play. Aiming systems, and alot of other things help too, but you need a good stroke first and foremost.

 

[Timberly]

They try their damdest for years and don't reach that level because something either mentally or in their physical mechanics is holding them back, i.e. a perfect stroke or eyesight, etc. Some people are just hard headed and wont fix the flaws that other people spot, and some people try to fix flaws but create new ones in the process and thus keeps their game at the same level or worse.

I'm certainly no scientist and I'm TONS less knowledgable than most on this board so who knows, you could be right. I still think to reach the absolute top level of play, you have to have natural talent. When Rodney shoots, it's like he free strokes everything... to me, that's natural talent... the game comes to him, he doesn't go to the game. I'll stop now because I'm starting to say cheesy things... haven't had my morning coffee yet.

 

[sjm]

While I agree that both have wonderful strokes and mechanics, I personally like Immonen's stroke more than I like Deuel's. Mika's balance is slightly better, his stroke is just a bit smoother, and his follow through is just a hair more dependable.

In addition, while I believe that excellent stroke mechanics are needed to become a great champion at pro level, I think there are a hundred players in the world with a stroke that measures up even by this standard. I've always believed that composure, commitment and discipline, both at and away from the table, are at least as critical.

 

[Timberly]

I'm obviously a glutton for punishment today. Here I go anyway... There are some pro's out there that have really bad strokes but yet make it to the pro level anyway. Mike Davis has the worst stoke I think I've ever seen and he's currently in Taiwan. Keith McCready has the unconventional side stroke and we all know who he is. Again, I could be wrong but I'll always believe that these guys have natural talent and that's why they're where they're at today. I'm certainly not trying to take away the time they've spent practicing and striving to get there. I just think their talent helped them along the way.

 

[Walter N.]

I'm obviously a glutton for punishment today. Here I go anyway... There are some pro's out there that have really bad strokes but yet make it to the pro level anyway. Mike Davis has the worst stoke I think I've ever seen and he's currently in Taiwan. Keith McCready has the unconventional side stroke and we all know who he is. Again, I could be wrong but I'll always believe that these guys have natural talent and that's why they're where they're at today. I'm certainly not trying to take away the time they've spent practicing and striving to get there. I just think their talent helped them along the way.

I have to say you may be right Danny Medina was a marble state champion at the age of eleven and he does everything your not supposed to do with a stroke. After seeing Shane V. play at such a young age and be so good part of it has two be natural talent. However, I do believe if someone where to be consistent with their stroke there game will improve. I've seen every stroke in the book, but i've noticed that the best players stay consistant with it whether it be side arm, wind mill or jump up after every shot. I don't believe that there is one stroke out there that is magical, however; I do believe that the most mechanical sound players on the tour or Karen and Allison. I think that this story has happened to all "How in the hell did I lose money to a guy with a stroke like that." So does consistency out way the ability to do the "right Thing"?

 

[Snapshot9]

That's why ...

When I give lessons that I preach and preach - Proper form and stroke, over and over, and over .... and If they get testy, I just make them start all over again like a drill sargeant until they finally start catching on.

Proper form and stroke is like the planning phase of a project, it allows everything else to follow to go much easier than it would otherwise.

And we all know, that with proper planning, you are better prepared to
take other things on.

Sun Tzu from his book, The Art of War states:
If you know yourself, you will win some of your battles, if you know your
opponent, you will win about half of your battles, if you know yourself and
your opponent, you will win most of your battles.

That statement can apply appropriately to Pool as well. If you truly know how good you are and your skill, you can win some of your matches, if you know
your opponent, you can evaluate his skill level, weaknesses, plus have a good
idea of how much a spot should be for a fair game. If you know both, you can capitalize on your strengths, exploit your opponents weaknesses, know how you should match up, and win most of your matches.

Every real good pool player is real good at evaluating skill levels of different
players, that's why they win most of the time.

 

[sjm]

I'm obviously a glutton for punishment today. Here I go anyway... There are some pro's out there that have really bad strokes but yet make it to the pro level anyway. Mike Davis has the worst stoke I think I've ever seen and he's currently in Taiwan. Keith McCready has the unconventional side stroke and we all know who he is. Again, I could be wrong but I'll always believe that these guys have natural talent and that's why they're where they're at today. I'm certainly not trying to take away the time they've spent practicing and striving to get there. I just think their talent helped them along the way.

Excellent observation, Timberly. Come to think of it, the great Allen Hopkins had a stroke that you'd never ever teach to anyone, but it sure worked for him!

 

[skyhigh]

Every time someone mentions natural talent,Michael Jordan comes to mind.He couldn't make his school basketball team because he wasn't good enough,but through coaching and devotion he conquered the basket ball world.Though natural talent is good, it alone cannot take you to the top,what you need is an open mind to take instructions from sensible people and remember there is no susbtitute for hard work.[Often what you put in is what you get out].

 

[Snapshot9]

Tap tap tap

Every time someone mentions natural talent,Michael Jordan comes to mind.He couldn't make his school basketball team because he wasn't good enough,but through coaching and devotion he conquered the basket ball world.Though natural talent is good, it alone cannot take you to the top,what you need is an open mind to take instructions from sensible people and remember there is no susbtitute for hard work.[Often what you put in is what you get out].

That was an excellent comment. All these so called 'natural' players if you ask
them have worked really hard on their game, and used their brain along the
way, which is what most league shooters do not do. Their are scientific studies that verify that a person learns from 28-32% faster when they think
about what they are doing, instead of just going through the motions, and
expecting to learn something.

My question is, why should I have give up the 6 and the break, just because
someone else's brain does not function as well as mine does .... lol

 

[Timberly]

All these so called 'natural' players if you ask
them have worked really hard on their game, and used their brain along the
way

"I'm certainly not trying to take away the time they've spent practicing and striving to get there. I just think their talent helped them along the way."

That was my statement about the people that I think are "natural players". I'm not saying these guys just woke up one day & could play like champions, just as Michael Jordan didn't. Natural talent will only get someone so far. People have to learn how to capitalize on that talent. That's what these guys did with practice, hard work and dedication. On the flip side, there's people on this board that have played for many yrs with practice, coaching, books, videos, you name it... they've done everything they can think of to take their game to that higher level and they just never made it. Some of these folks have put alot of money into all these things and taken this very seriously to the point that they did have open minds and listened to what they were told and they still don't have "it". To me it's like any other sport out there... The pro's are the folks that have the "it" factor which to me is natural talent. For everyone else there's minor leagues and semi pro leagues. Every sport from Golf to Football has 'em.

 

[Celtic]

I do believe that the most mechanical sound players on the tour or Karen and Allison.

They have good strokes for potting balls but their strokes are very rigid and lack the fluid motion that I think defines a good stroke. I would say Earl has a far better stroke then either Karen or Allison. Mechanical strokes such as Karen and Allison use can only do so much, they have peaked at the highest level you can go with their strokes and god forbid when they need to power a ball with alot of spin. Allison and Karen both play with little feel, the complete opposite to the Philipino players that are so dominant. Compare Steve Davis playing 9-ball to the people with true 9-ball power strokes and you see where Davis falls behind. Best stroke in pool is Ronnie O'Sullivan who actually plays snooker like it is 9-ball, he is the only guy I have ever seen play that game with a power stroke and he is dominant doing it, I think he is a mutant.

 

[Koop]

Excellent observation, Timberly. Come to think of it, the great Allen Hopkins had a stroke that you'd never ever teach to anyone, but it sure worked for him!

Exactly who I think of when I think of ugly strokes, but it's sure tough to argue the mans success.

 

[Walter N.]

They have good strokes for potting balls but their strokes are very rigid and lack the fluid motion that I think defines a good stroke. I would say Earl has a far better stroke then either Karen or Allison. Mechanical strokes such as Karen and Allison use can only do so much, they have peaked at the highest level you can go with their strokes and god forbid when they need to power a ball with alot of spin. Allison and Karen both play with little feel, the complete opposite to the Philipino players that are so dominant. Compare Steve Davis playing 9-ball to the people with true 9-ball power strokes and you see where Davis falls behind. Best stroke in pool is Ronnie O'Sullivan who actually plays snooker like it is 9-ball, he is the only guy I have ever seen play that game with a power stroke and he is dominant doing it, I think he is a mutant.

I Think it would be best to agree to disagree on this one as my wife would say. Because there records on the female tour prove to show how there strokes fare against the others. Also as far as the Mechanical sound men look at Jim Rampe's stroke it is very Mechanical sound and he could compete with the best of them that is when he played on the tour.

 

[Celtic]

Rempe had a very mechanical stroke, he is definately a good example to use against my claim but I still dont see his stroke as a great stroke. He was great because he is friggin brilliant and played smarter then most other people, knowing the right angles to play and therefore not needing a powerful stroke for success. He is one of my favorite players but when he was faced with a table length shot that requires draw you are better off with pretty near any other pro playing the shot because Rempe's stroke is not a powerful stroke, he can cinch roll a brutally tough pot as well as anyone but once you make him require a powerful stroke with alot of spin to go along with the pot he is lost. A great stroke is one that can make all the shots. There really is not a makable shot on the table that Strickland cannot stroke in as good as anyone, same for Bustamente. They combined power with accuracy, not just accuracy such as Rempe or Allison at the expense of power.

 

[Walter N.]

Rempe had a very mechanical stroke, he is definately a good example to use against my claim but I still dont see his stroke as a great stroke. He was great because he is friggin brilliant and played smarter then most other people, knowing the right angles to play and therefore not needing a powerful stroke for success. He is one of my favorite players but when he was faced with a table length shot that requires draw you are better off with pretty near any other pro playing the shot because Rempe's stroke is not a powerful stroke, he can cinch roll a brutally tough pot as well as anyone but once you make him require a powerful stroke with alot of spin to go along with the pot he is lost. A great stroke is one that can make all the shots. There really is not a makable shot on the table that Strickland cannot stroke in as good as anyone, same for Bustamente. They combined power with accuracy, not just accuracy such as Rempe or Allison at the expense of power.

But if I remember correctly Jim Rampe consistently beat Bustamente. I have Accu-Stat tapes that show this. Also how often do you have to play such shots I think this is more on the lines of shot making verses position play. Allison and Rampe both have ran numerous racks , But so have Bustamente and Morris. I Thank at any given time all of them can make the shot to get out. Thanks W.N.

 

[Celtic]

Also how often do you have to play such shots I think this is more on the lines of shot making verses position play.

Umm, we are talking about who has the best strokes, not the most complete games. When it comes to who has the best stroke it is all about shot making. If you want to bring position play and who wins a match you are talking about the complete game and that is far beyond what I take issue with. You said you think Allison and Karen have the best strokes, I dont think that is true because those strokes do not allow the same level of shotmaking of the more fluid players. Dont change the issue, you starting talking about strokes and whose is best.

Also, his name is Rempe not Rampe.