wood to wood joints

[alstl]

I play with a Schon and I understand that there is a difference in the way different cue makers build a cue with a SS joint which effects the hit.

Is there much of a difference in the wood to wood jointed cues, or do they hit pretty much the same? If they hit differently, which ones are known for having a good hit?

Al,
St Louis

 

[prolecat]

IMO, after switching from a P2 that i used for a year, to a wood-wood coker, after just a week i could tell how much more control the wood-wood provided.

I think it provides far superior control, the feedback it gives you after everyshot allows you to better judge things like speed control, and english, etc.

JMO

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

IMO,
...I think it provides far superior control, the feedback it gives you after everyshot allows you to better judge things like speed control, and english, etc.

JMO

I don't know about all that, I mean they feel different for sure and I play with a Southwest but I have no doubt that I could play equally good/bad with a steel jointed cue. I just prefer the hit of a big pin, wood to wood jointed cue.

Alex

 

[supergreenman]

I know I like the feel of my wood to wood sneaky pete. I'm not sure if it's given me better control or not. I think it just feels different than my old cue with a ss joint.

 

[scottycoyote]

for some reason im the opposite......i shoot with an old schon with an interference fit between the joint and piloted shafts, and to me it feels much better than the few wood to wood's ive tried out. I had a steve klein with a big 3/8 11 brass pin, and that thing just felt dead to me.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

for some reason im the opposite......i shoot with an old schon with an interference fit between the joint and piloted shafts, and to me it feels much better than the few wood to wood's ive tried out. I had a steve klein with a big 3/8 11 brass pin, and that thing just felt dead to me.

Dead is how I would describe it too, compared to a steel joint. The steel jointed cues that I've hit with in the past few years were more lively. I had the oportunity to hit with a fancy Gus Zamboti (not sure if I spelled that right) and I swear it was the nicest hitting cue I've ever tried. I wonder if I'd have the same opinion if it was a blind test, I have to admit I was kind of in awe of the thing.

I'm just used to the "dead" or quiet hit of a big pin wood to wood cue. Some are more quiet than others of course, I have a Madison Bob sneaky pete that I played with for a year or two and it's much more "clicky" than my Southwest which is very quiet.

Alex

 

[BRKNRUN]

I play with a Schon and I understand that there is a difference in the way different cue makers build a cue with a SS joint which effects the hit.

Is there much of a difference in the wood to wood jointed cues, or do they hit pretty much the same? If they hit differently, which ones are known for having a good hit?

Al,
St Louis

This is an exaggeration of course, but think of a wood bat compared to a aluminum bat.....or a cast iron compared to a forged iron...A ProV compared to a Rock Flight...

 

[Jeff]

I used metal jointed cues, SS and brass, for over twenty years. Josswest, Joss, Schon. Palmer.........Then I bought a Coker. Thought I either wouldn't like it or it would take a long time to get used to it, Nothing could be further from the truth as within two or three games it was like "where have you been all my life".

I shoot with a nice sneaky pete and thinking about buying a Frey Ebony sneaky. I will NEVER go back to a metel jointed cue again

I picked uo a friends Joss the other day and shot a few balls. To me its night and day now and I feel like kicking myself for not making the switch to wood to wood a long time ago,

 

[PoolSleuth]

I personally like Wood to Wood, better than Metal Joints....

 

[jingle]

I think joint preference kind of falls into the same category as tip preferences & shaft preferences in that what feels good and works for one person, doesn't necessarily work for all.

That being said, I too prefer a w-2-w joint with a 3/8x10 pin. I agree that its feedback is "dampened" compared to the SS joints I have tried. However, the dampened feeling provides a true, and more perceptible feedback, IMO.

 

[VonRhett]

Is there much of a difference in the wood to wood jointed cues, or do they hit pretty much the same? If they hit differently, which ones are known for having a good hit?
Al,

You'll either get countless responses to this, or very few since it's been debated AD NASEUM on this forum. In a nutshell, the joint type (and pin) alone do not determine the hit of cue. They are merely components (very important ones) of a much larger equation.

Having said that, SS joints will, as a rule, hit differently than wood-to-wood, or ivory joints. I prefer flat-faced ivory joints with a big pin, but this is merely a personal preference.

With few exceptions, no one can definitively state that one joint type is better than another. Each type will provide a different feel/feedback than another, but it doesn't necessarily mean that one type is better than another.

In example, take a cue with a SS joint that hits like crap; replace the joint with either wood-to-wood or even ivory. The cue will still hit like crap.

The joint choice, material and construction goes a long ways in determing how a cue hits, but it's by no means the only factor. There is no silver bullet or magic pill that will produce a great hitting cue.

Truth is, it would serve players better to place more emphasis on the shaft - the GWPI, taper, how the wood was cut/turned and normalized, plus the ferrule/tip - as this will have a more dramatic impact on the hit than changing the joint type on a given cue. (Unless you're a P314 guy, then nothing in this thread matters

 

[PlynSets]

I play with a Schon (SS joint), and I love the way it hits.. I've played with Wood 2 Wood joints as well, and overall I'd say there's good points to both.

Ultimately though if I had to pick what I would call a "hit" then I'd probably prefer a Wood 2 Wood. For some reason though I prefer a SS schon over it, I believe it has more to do with a balance point (or atleast in my mind a balance point.)

To me when I take practice strokes with my Schon it feels like the cue is doing the work, almost like a clock pendulum. The balance point is slightly more forward then most other cues, and it feels like it just carries itself through. It's probably just in my head, but every Schon I've ever played with gave me that "impression/feel." Most w-2-w cues seem tail heavy to me.

DJ

 

[DJKeys]

These are very well-taken points. I hit with an original Balabushka cue from 1962 once, best hitting cue I ever hit. The owner let me play with it for half an hour. That was a piloted SS joint. Months later I hit with a cue that felt nearly identical (no other cue has so far) and that was a wood to wood Richard Harris Blue Grass cue, which I bought.

 

[3kushn]

Anytime there is a break in a cue or fishing rod or anything else, there's a loss.

Two piece cues are for convenience only. It's easier to travel with a two piece cue vs one piece. The object in joint design as I see it is to simulate
a one piece hit. The best joint I've found for this is one with a wood screw in the shaft, threaded into wood in the butt with the face contact
being wood. A sleeve unfortunatly needs to be added for the joint to last.
The Sneaky Petes would be better if they had a wood screw and a collar for joint life. This is the closest you can get to a one piece feel with the small trade off of the collar. If you have plenty of cash to spend on cues, take out the collar in the design.

The very best 9 baller I ever knew played with a house cue. I was his very own cue kept at the pool hall. He didn't carry it around. I saw him beat some of the greats of the 70's and 80's with a house cue.

This being said, player preference trumps all. I just like the idea of beint as close to one piece as possible.

 

[alstl]

Excellent responses, but after I read them I realized that my original post wasn't clear. What I intended to ask was whether there was much of a difference among wood to wood jointed cues.

I haven't played enough to know, but it seems like a flat faced wood to wood cue would play pretty much the same as another flat faced wood to wood as long as the weight, balance point, shaft taper and tip are the same.

I have played with a few SS jointed cues and there is a difference between my Schon and other SS cues I had which I attribute in part to the way Schon makes the SS joint.

 

[Jeff]

I haven't played enough to know, but it seems like a flat faced wood to wood cue would play pretty much the same as another flat faced wood to wood as long as the weight, balance point, shaft taper and tip are the same.

The type of wood used and how that wood was seasoned, dried, and cut will make a difference, as does the grain of the wood and how the maker made use of the grain pattern amd direction.

I even think the type and material of pin used makes a difference.

 

[3kushn]

The type of wood used and how that wood was seasoned, dried, and cut will make a difference, as does the grain of the wood and how the maker made use of the grain pattern amd direction.

I even think the type and material of pin used makes a difference.

Jeff,
I agree and why I advocate the wood pin in the shaft vs a brass or ss pin in the butt. As far as shafts are concerned it takes months to cut a shaft and thats after years of seasoning. One of the best shafts I've had came from a 20 year old house cue.

 

[n_den]

Is there much of a difference in the wood to wood jointed cues, or do they hit pretty much the same?

lets see, if you have a group of cue makers and have each of them make the same cue, then i'd have to think that there will be a difference even though the joint used is the same. there's just to many variables. maybe a few of them may perform close to each other but there will be lots of differences. they won't all perform the same.

if you were to have 1 cue maker create 10 identical cues then the majority of the 10 cues should perform closely to one another.

If they hit differently, which ones are known for having a good hit?

difficult. how does one define a good hit? price, cue maker, joint type, materials, etc. its really up to you to decide. it may take years until you find a cue that's right for you. you may know what you want but finding the cue maker that can translate what you want is the challenging part.

just some thoughts, n_den

 

[Chris' Cues]

a lot of cues that have a SS joint have maple forearms. The SS joint is as much to add weight to the front part of the butt as it is for a joint material. If you yse Ebony, or Cocobola in the forearm you don't need that extra weight. Sometimes the SS joint feels like a weight, when the heavier wood feels more naturally ballanced. Almost all of the cues that I build have a wood to wood 3/8 - 10 joint and most use a more solid wood in the forearm.

 

[Cornerman]

Is there much of a difference in the wood to wood jointed cues, or do they hit pretty much the same?

It all depends on the cuemaker. That is, they all don't hit the same. All else being equal, the A-joint and the woods are the other main ingredients aside from the joint, IMO.

Fred