Wood to Wood VS SS Joint Feel

[Runner]

My .02 cents...

I came up playing steel joints... Palmer, plain Tad, etc... all my playing cues are steel joint... either 5/16-14 or 5/16-18 piloted. The only flat faced joint cues I have are an older Pechauer sneaky, and my Little Al sneaky and JB cues.

I can feel the difference... I had a BEM Southwest at one point, just could not get into that cue... tried a friend's really nice four point SW, same thing.

I guess it's what you're used to... different strokes! It could be a Budweiser cue if you get out with it... Mark Tadd used to play lights out with a cheap fiberglass cue, with the 9 ball rack painted on the butt sleeve!

 

[Kim Bye]

I don't really notice much difference in cue joints, apart from Uni-Lok wich seems to deaden vibrations more than any other joint.
Also I dont like Mezz Wavy joint and Uni-Lok Radial for their proprietary nature.
A Wavy joint tap is like $ 400!! And a Radial tap is over $ 100!
Crazy prices.
Not sold on the 3/8-11 either, because of the similarity to 3/8-10 and I have seen people damage their threads, thankfully any decent late will do 11 TPI and 3/8-11taps is easier to find now.
I prefer 3/8-10M and good ol' 5/16-14

 

[Ken_4fun]

I play with a steel jointed Gus Szamboti cue. Probably the best playing cue I have ever owned.

I typically play with Ivory jointed cues, and for some reason they seemed to give me the most feedback.

Another one of the best playing cues I ever owned was Jason Miller's Southwest, and of course it had a flat face wood joint.

So that being said, I think the quality of the cue (particularly the shaft), and not the joint makes the biggest difference.

Ken

 

[alstl]

I've read numerous posts on here about how nobody can feel the difference between a 3/8-10 pin and a 5/16-14.

I think you can...at least some people.

I'm listening to Rodney Morris in the booth at the XPC tournament and he just said that he can't play a wood to wood joint as well as a SS joint because he doesn't get the same "vibrations" (I'm using his ACTUAL word) and he has to play "area" position with a wood to wood because it doesn't feel the same.

I'll let the nay sayers come in now and say Rodney doesn't know what he is talking about.

I can definitely feel the difference between my cues with different joints.

FWIW, Rodney said he was using one of Lucky's cues with a REGULAR shaft and a regular tip (not layered).

I don't think you can draw in conclusions from what a player says he prefers. Earl said he used the tennis wrap because he "doesn't want to feel the cue anymore". It is an individual thing which is why there are so many different types of joints.

 

[fastone371]

I am sure people who own different cues with different joints can feel a difference between them. The problem is how do you know its the joint that makes the cue feel different? I have a McDermott D19 that I can put 4 different shafts on yet I only like the feel of the cue with 1 particular shaft. I also have an original Titlist that I can put 3 different shafts on and once again I only really like the feel of the cue with 1 shaft. In all cases all of the shafts feel at least slightly different, some are much different. On the Titlist the shaft that gives me the most feel/feedback is the softest tip which kind of surprises me and also makes me think it is a whole lot more than just the tip that will make shafts feel different on the same butt.

 

[HawaiianEye]

FWIW, I NEVER said that one type of joint played better, or was better, than another type. I only said that I think some people can feel a difference.

Up until I bought my first McDermott, I used custom cues that I had Richard Black make for me. When I got my C-14, I immediately noticed that it had a hit that was more "flexy" (if that is a word) and was a bit softer than my Black. I actually liked the "feel" of the McDermott more than my Black that I was using at the time, so I sold the Black.

I still have cues with both types of joints and I think the SS joints give the cues a "stiffer" feel to ME.

The vibrations, or lack thereof, are what allow the cue to "communicate" with the player. I think some people can feel vibrations that maybe others can't. Kind of like a hearing test...not everybody can hear all the same pitches, yet the sound is there.

Aloha

 

[Runner]

I play with a steel jointed Gus Szamboti cue. Probably the best playing cue I have ever owned.

I typically play with Ivory jointed cues, and for some reason they seemed to give me the most feedback.

Another one of the best playing cues I ever owned was Jason Miller's Southwest, and of course it had a flat face wood joint.

So that being said, I think the quality of the cue (particularly the shaft), and not the joint makes the biggest difference.

Ken

I own a plain four point Gus as well... hands down the best hitting cue I've played with...my main player now is a four point Scruggs, very close to the Gus, which now stays home.

 

[Drop The Rock]

Stainless vs other material feel significantly different to me. The best way I can describe it is like hit a tuning for holding it in one hand and letting it vibrate, vs hitting it and then grabbing it with the other.

 

[ENGLISH!]

FWIW, I NEVER said that one type of joint played better, or was better, than another type. I only said that I think some people can feel a difference.

Up until I bought my first McDermott, I used custom cues that I had Richard Black make for me. When I got my C-14, I immediately noticed that it had a hit that was more "flexy" (if that is a word) and was a bit softer than my Black. I actually liked the "feel" of the McDermott more than my Black that I was using at the time, so I sold the Black.

I still have cues with both types of joints and I think the SS joints give the cues a "stiffer" feel to ME.

The vibrations, or lack thereof, are what allow the cue to "communicate" with the player. I think some people can feel vibrations that maybe others can't. Kind of like a hearing test...not everybody can hear all the same pitches, yet the sound is there.

Aloha

I like that hearing test analogy.

 

[ronscuba]

I am sure people who own different cues with different joints can feel a difference between them. The problem is how do you know its the joint that makes the cue feel different? I have a McDermott D19 that I can put 4 different shafts on yet I only like the feel of the cue with 1 particular shaft. I also have an original Titlist that I can put 3 different shafts on and once again I only really like the feel of the cue with 1 shaft. In all cases all of the shafts feel at least slightly different, some are much different. On the Titlist the shaft that gives me the most feel/feedback is the softest tip which kind of surprises me and also makes me think it is a whole lot more than just the tip that will make shafts feel different on the same butt.

Not sure about others, but I own 2 Mezz Cues. Both with an alpha shaft and moori medium tip. One has a united joint (small pin, piloted, metal female insert), the other a wavy joint (big pin, no pilot, no female insert, threads directly into the wood). I posted pictures of these joints earlier in the thread.

I like both, they play great. I do notice one cue has a softer hit than the other. If it is not the joint what is the difference ?

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

The vibrations, or lack thereof, are what allow the cue to "communicate" with the player..

This is exactly what I find ridiculous about the whole 'better hit' argument. It's like shooting baskets and having a friend there to tell you if you made the ball. I saw it, I know if I made it. You telling me afterward brings nothing to the table.

Now, if someone wants to say that they enjoy the hit more, that is great...I get that. If someone says it helps them play better, I'll even agree with that, but only because they aren't letting their lack of belief in the cue get in the way of using the cue.

 

[Drop The Rock]

This is exactly what I find ridiculous about the whole 'better hit' argument. It's like shooting baskets and having a friend there to tell you if you made the ball. I saw it, I know if I made it. You telling me afterward brings nothing to the table.

Now, if someone wants to say that they enjoy the hit more, that is great...I get that. If someone says it helps them play better, I'll even agree with that, but only because they aren't letting their lack of belief in the cue get in the way of using the cue.

I have heard some people say they swear by SouthWests and a Pro in the middle east who says the don't hit well at all. The reality is that its preference. I personally can't stand the feel of steel unless its a half joint and sleeved over phenolic or would.

 

[ENGLISH!]

This is exactly what I find ridiculous about the whole 'better hit' argument. It's like shooting baskets and having a friend there to tell you if you made the ball. I saw it, I know if I made it. You telling me afterward brings nothing to the table.

Now, if someone wants to say that they enjoy the hit more, that is great...I get that. If someone says it helps them play better, I'll even agree with that, but only because they aren't letting their lack of belief in the cue get in the way of using the cue.

I'm not looking to argue, but do you have your own cue that you take with you or do you always just play off of the wall.

If you're not a feel player but go by a method like speed #5.

Then I can understand that you would certainly not get this.

Can you feel the cue ball when it is on the tip through the cue?

Can you feel the difference in hitting on the center line vs with 3 'tips' or more of english, or maybe that you were off center that tad when you wanted to hit center?

Feedback.

You're analogy is not applicable at all. Try shooting those free throws with a different weight ball EVERY shot & then just one for the cash when someone gives you a random ball.

When you use the same cue, you get feedback from which to build a data base, from which you can then access & draw upon.

This is all done subconsciously.

The human body & mind are amazing entities if we don't let our brain & ego put up too many roadblocks.

That no collar Sneaky fits ME better WHEN I am playing one pocket than that steel collared cue that I really 'love' for other games.

The reason is because I will be shooting much more softly & consistently so for an extended period of time.

Like many have said. Some can feel differences & some can not.

Like Eye's analogy 'suggested', some can not hear all of the frequencies of a sound while others can.

Try hitting a delicate shot for all the cash that you have to pay out if you fail & let someone else give you a cue that you've never hit before to take the shot.

I sincerely hope that you can see & understand the points that I am trying to make.

Some individuals receive the feedback better with a different type of joint than another individual. The point is that it is not BS.

Best Wishes to You & All.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

I'm not looking to argue, but do you have your own cue that you take with you or do you always just play off of the wall.

If you're not a feel player but go by a method like speed #5.

Then I can understand that you would certainly not get this.

Can you feel the cue ball when it is on the tip through the cue?

Can you feel the difference in hitting on the center line vs with 3 'tips' or more of english, or maybe that you were off center that tad when you wanted to hit center?

Feedback.

You're analogy is not applicable at all. Try shooting those free throws with a different weight ball EVERY shot & then just one for the cash when someone gives you a random ball.

When you use the same cue, you get feedback from which to build a data base, from which you can then access & draw upon.

This is all done subconsciously.

The human body & mind are amazing entities if we don't let our brain & ego put up too many roadblocks.

That no collar Sneaky fits ME better WHEN I am playing one pocket than that steel collared cue that I really 'love' for other games.

The reason is because I will be shooting much more softly & consistently so for an extended period of time.

Like many have said. Some can feel differences & some can not.

Like Eye's analogy 'suggested', some can not hear all of the frequencies of a sound while others can.

Try hitting a delicate shot for all the cash that you have to pay out if you fail & let someone else give you a cue that you've never hit before to take the shot.

I sincerely hope that you can see & understand the points that I am trying to make.

Some individuals receive the feedback better with a different type of joint than another individual. The point is that it is not BS.

Best Wishes to You & All.

Well written.

It is literally something I don't understand because to me it is unimportant information. I can tell visually whether I put spin on the cueball.

As for the 'speed #5' part, we are all that way. The speed we want to hit has been determined before we get the feedback that the cue gives.

I do use a lot of different cues. I have 5-8 at any given time that I switch between. They range from 17oz to 21oz. They have different diameter shafts with different tapers, different joints and different pins. Some are wrapped, some are wrapless. Some have bumpers, some are bumperless. I spent a lot of time playing in bars and I wouldn't take cues, so I played off the wall.

I think there is a lot of value to doing this. Maybe I was inspired when I was younger by Bruce Lee and his argument that no form is form unto itself. I think that by keeping things in a state of flux one can learn much more than if everything is static.

I have played important games with cues I didn't know. I had a tie-breaker game last season (non-handicapped league) that I came in cold, no warm-up and broke-and-ran with a borrowed cue. Not only was I comfortable with trying this, my whole team thought their best chance was me doing this.

The only reason I don't play off the wall is because I want a smooth, clean shaft with a maintained tip...and I like the look of cues.

Please note that I said I find it ridiculous because I can't understand it. I am very analytical and I spent a lot of time getting rid of anything in my game I didn't believe added value.