World Series Of Poker Stats

[watchez]

I know this is a pool forum but pool is being compared to poker a lot lately so I thought I would throw in some stats from the Finals Event of World Series of Poker.

Entry Fee: $10,000
Total contestants: 6600 (approx. and this number is not officially known but was told to me by a friend that is dealing and another playing at the event)
That makes a total prize pool of $66,000,000 .
Of that: 4% goes to the house ($2,640,000)
2% goes to the staff ($1,320,000)
Of this staff money, my friend tells me that 30% goes to the floor supervisors of which there are 30 of them during the tournament.
More math--$1,320,000 x 30% = $396,000 / 30 = $13,200 per supervisor. The other 70% gets divided among the dealers. $1,320,000 x 70% = $924,000 / 300 dealers approx. = $3080 a piece. ALL THIS FOR 10 DAYS OF WORK. And this is the final event of 42 in a month and half of tournaments held.

Pool has to add money for people to show up and make the entry fees real small to get any amount of players. Then the tournament director/tour takes out anywhere from 15%-25% of the prize fund.

Now, who wants to go practice some pool and who wants to learn how to deal poker?

 

[azhousepro]

But the last two years it was one of the 'If I just get lucky' players that won.

Mike

6000 of those people are thinking "If I just get lucky" I might snap it off...The other 600 actually know how to play No Limit Holdem...

Regarding playing pool vs dealing poker...Why not do both???...You know life is all about the 3 P's ..(P.P.P)......two make money...one takes money...I'll let you figure out what that one is....

BTW...I can deal...(If you want to hire me)....It looks appealing and like easy money at first....but after about 2 weeks...It becomes "factory work"

 

[nfty9er]

Official

Total players

5662

 

[watchez]

Total players

5662

Thanks nfty. I was having a bit of trouble finding a website with an exact count. I know they had to divide what is normally the 1st day into 3 days because they are set up to only accomodate 2200 players at a time. The numbers I posted previously won't be that far off and still a huge figure.

The World Series of Poker is like buying a lottery ticket with better odds to win but the ticket costs you a whole lot more.

 

[JustPlay]

I know this is a pool forum but pool is being compared to poker a lot lately so I thought I would throw in some stats from the Finals Event of World Series of Poker.

Entry Fee: $10,000
Total contestants: 6600 (approx. and this number is not officially known but was told to me by a friend that is dealing and another playing at the event)
That makes a total prize pool of $66,000,000 .
Of that: 4% goes to the house ($2,640,000)
2% goes to the staff ($1,320,000)
Of this staff money, my friend tells me that 30% goes to the floor supervisors of which there are 30 of them during the tournament.
More math--$1,320,000 x 30% = $396,000 / 30 = $13,200 per supervisor. The other 70% gets divided among the dealers. $1,320,000 x 70% = $924,000 / 300 dealers approx. = $3080 a piece. ALL THIS FOR 10 DAYS OF WORK. And this is the final event of 42 in a month and half of tournaments held.

Pool has to add money for people to show up and make the entry fees real small to get any amount of players. Then the tournament director/tour takes out anywhere from 15%-25% of the prize fund.

Now, who wants to go practice some pool and who wants to learn how to deal poker?

Jay Helfert, if you know who he is is an excellent pool player in California and pool tournament promoter and a poker player. Well, back in April 2005 Jay won a poker tournament in California (I have his pic and info in a poker mag I picked up at a casino in April) and he won $15,000. At the World Series of Poker (2005) a couple of weeks ago, Jay won $41,000 (he placed 6th) in one of the events, I think it was a $1000 buy in event.

I have always advocted that big pool events have bigger entry fees. If I maybe wrong but back in the late 80's and early 90's wasn't the US Open $200 entry fee then got raised to $500? Why not $1000? Also, poker only pays the top 10% and the other 90% who put up $1000 - $10,000 get ZERO! and they show in the hundreds to play. Amazing. The World Poker Tour charges $10K - $25K for its events and 300+ players show up for those events and they advocate they make a new millioniare each month.

Thank you Chris Moneymaker!!! Pool needs a Chris Moneymaker...

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

But the last two years it was one of the 'If I just get lucky' players that won.

Mike

Exactly! It's very difficult to compare pool with poker in this regard. Pool truly is a skill. There's no two ways about it. In order to win a professional tournament, you have to be a professional caliber player. Poker isn't necessarily that way. I've played in hundreds of online poker tournaments and can say that there are times I can do no wrong and other times where nothing goes right and I really have no control over either.

 

[JustPlay]

Exactly! It's very difficult to compare pool with poker in this regard. Pool truly is a skill. There's no two ways about it. In order to win a professional tournament, you have to be a professional caliber player. Poker isn't necessarily that way. I've played in hundreds of online poker tournaments and can say that there are times I can do no wrong and other times where nothing goes right and I really have no control over either.

Thats the part of pool that will keep alot of people / players away (skill). In these big tournaments like the US Open, for the most part, the same players keep winning it...

 

[wayne]

Jay Helfert, if you know who he is is an excellent pool player in California and pool tournament promoter and a poker player. Well, back in April 2005 Jay won a poker tournament in California (I have his pic and info in a poker mag I picked up at a casino in April) and he won $15,000. At the World Series of Poker (2005) a couple of weeks ago, Jay won $41,000 (he placed 6th) in one of the events, I think it was a $1000 buy in event.

...

Jean-Robert (Bobby) Bellande, another California pool player who used to always be in action gave up pool and started playing poker full-time. So far this year he has 1/2 million dollars in winnings toward player of the year (he is in the top 5). He will be on ESPN later this month from one of the tournaments he finished high in. Also, because of his high finishes and tournaments won he gets sponsored for all tournaments now so he doesn't have to pay the $10,000 or $20,000 entry fees anymore.

Wayne

 

[JoeyInCali]

Jean-Robert (Bobby) Bellande, another California pool player who used to always be in action gave up pool and started playing poker full-time. So far this year he has 1/2 million dollars in winnings toward player of the year (he is in the top 5). He will be on ESPN later this month from one of the tournaments he finished high in. Also, because of his high finishes and tournaments won he gets sponsored for all tournaments now so he doesn't have to pay the $10,000 or $20,000 entry fees anymore.

Wayne

Jeesh, I did not know Tall Bobby ( if it is tall Bobby who had a busted Weston cue at the bottom ) is a poker player now too.
He used to lose a lot of money playing pool.
We got him for $2K+ one night at Hollywood ( I had some bet with a friend of mine playing him) .
He had a lot of gamble in him.

 

[wayne]

Jeesh, I did not know Tall Bobby ( if it is tall Bobby who had a busted Weston cue at the bottom ) is a poker player now too.
He used to lose a lot of money playing pool.
We got him for $2K+ one night at Hollywood ( I had some bet with a friend of mine playing him) .
He had a lot of gamble in him.

Same guy, since he is 6'6" he was referred to as "Tall Bobby". He was always good for big action. He not only lost a lot but he also won a lot, he beat one Russian guy out of well over a hundred thousand playing pool. Of course, he did it over a number of years, at a recent poker tournament at the Bicycle here in L.A. he snapped it off to win $141,000. I think his third place in the World Series in Vegas paid about $230,000.

Wayne

 

[JustPlay]

Your right....The ODDS are definatly in favor of one of those people winning....The comments by "pro" poker players is that it is unlikely that a "pro" will ever win the event again under the current format...

Thats the one big difference between poker and pool....You can't get lucky and win the US 9-BALL OPEN.....Yes...you need some luck to get through the event...but you better be able to play....

Poker...you just need to get a good run of cards and get lucky in all the races....like the two players the last two years.....Both players "sucked out" a few times where their chip stack should have been crippled.

I still expect that at some point everything will have gone full circle and poker will dye out and pool rooms will start to prosper again....


As soon as poker is made legal in a pool room....All the action will be at the pool room again and not at the Indian Casino robbing the blind.....JMO


In the meantime.....A pool room owner today should explore setting up on-line poker....If its legal to play from home...why not in a pool room....In house tournaments, sit and goes, played through the host site......

A poker table with built in screens, that allows you to log in to the poker network.........Pool tables in the adjoing room for when the woofing starts about how "I only play poker for fun"..."I make my real money playing pool"....


Game On .............I only wish I had the $$$$ to open such a room....Anyone want to loan me the money????

The pool room I used to frequent 2 times a week for its tournaments, started having Ramika cash games and Hold'm tournaments each week and about 80% of the pool players stopped playing pool and started playing cards. Since the Sheriffs Dept put an end to their card games, there pool business has and is suffering to the degree they have to sell the business. This pool room has (I should say they had) 20 tables (10 diamond and 10 GC 3's). I am sure there are others on this forum that have similar stories. Instead of focusing on there pool business, they completely left it out to dry and made alot of dedicated customers mad.. The room owners prefered to have card games then pool, in this particular case anyways.

So far at the WSOP a few of the events were won by Pro poker players and alot of them finished at the final tables were there at least 800-1500 players in the event.

Your idea of online poker at pool room is actually a real good idea. I am sure some patrons would pay a small fee to use there machine to log on to a poker website..It definitly would help pass the time inbetween matches in a tournament.

 

[watchez]

Exactly! It's very difficult to compare pool with poker in this regard. Pool truly is a skill. There's no two ways about it. In order to win a professional tournament, you have to be a professional caliber player. Poker isn't necessarily that way. I've played in hundreds of online poker tournaments and can say that there are times I can do no wrong and other times where nothing goes right and I really have no control over either.

Jude,
Pool is skill with some luck and poker is luck with some skill. That being said, I was trying to make a point that MAYBE the pool world could learn something from the success of poker as a business plan. Just this one tournament in 3 years has gone from 800 players to 5600 players and a huge television exposure/contract. I am going to go out on a limb saying that more people played poker at least one time last year than pool. There are more websites for poker too. There are tons of books on poker and very few on pool. The poker world must be doing something right. Pool should examine it and transform it over to their world.
I have thought about it and I have discovered the biggest problem with pool. It is the fact that these pool players, whether a pro or some short stop, think just because they can draw their ball they can also run a business. Most pool rooms are run by somebody that began playing pool and they have no business sense at all. They are out to make the quick buck and if they go busted, well they have been busted before. Pool needs businessmen. Period. How is this for an example.....no, I better not. People seem to get upset when you call them out. Well, I can't help myself...Briefly, a pool room here is currently closed because the owner forgot to renew the liquor license. Enough said.
Poker is all about bluffing and hustling but the people that run the tournaments are honest in the payouts. Right on the World Series of Poker website they list all money from entry fees, payouts and what the house took. In pool, when they list a payout on this site about a pool tournament they add in the calcutta money to make it look bigger, never tell you how many players or what the entry fees were. Why....cause they are ashamed to say. Can anyone quickly tell me how much it costs to play in the World Pool Championships and how much the winner gets? I bet more can tell you it costs $10,000 to play in the WSOP. More people on the street can tell you who Phil Helmuth or Chris Moneymaker is than Efren Reyes or Johnny Archer.
Hopefully, someone in the pool world (and not some player who thinks that he is mightier than someone else cause he plays better) will come up with an idea that works like poker has. Jude, I think that by saying poker is not like pool is close minded and won't get anywhere. An apple is not like an orange but it takes a lot of the same elements to make them grow. I am not being rude. Just letting people know they should take a look at something else that has turned into a success and doesn't seem to be slowing down.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Same guy, since he is 6'6" he was referred to as "Tall Bobby". He was always good for big action. He not only lost a lot but he also won a lot, he beat one Russian guy out of well over a hundred thousand playing pool. Of course, he did it over a number of years, at a recent poker tournament at the Bicycle here in L.A. he snapped it off to win $141,000. I think his third place in the World Series in Vegas paid about $230,000.

Wayne

I hope Tang doesn't hear about it.

 

[Ezliving]

Most pool rooms are run by somebody that began playing pool and they have no business sense at all. They are out to make the quick buck and if they go busted, well they have been busted before. Pool needs businessmen. Period.

I'm curious why none of the online discussion groups offer a password protected forum just for pool room business owners to use to discuss business topics.

All the online billiards forums are dominated by players and their interests and there is minimal focus on the business end of running a pool room. It would be good for owners to have a private place to network.

 

[Hal]

I will try my luck in the WSOP at least once after I retire.

 

[JustPlay]

If the owners abandoned the pool side of the business...It seems like they really didn't care about pool in the first place. they only cared about bodies...I could be wrong...

I think if done right....you would get "more" players playing pool as their now in proximity of the pool tables instead of clear across town out on the "reservation" ...

I would definatly NOT favor the poker side...It would be used more as a draw to get normally non pool players in the door...

I understand that there would probably be an initial decline in pool activity as some pool players would check out the new happenings....but I think after the initial balancing out....the pool would pick up from pre-poker and your "overall" business would get better...

If done right though....this type of room would need a food service area as well......and of course the demon alchohaul.....

Of course this is ALL speculation on my part....I have no numbers to back this up...But going back to the "full circle" thing....Pool Rooms used to have "poker in the back"....I think someday it will be there again.... JMO

This pool room is a full service room (no beer or liqour). All of the owners are gamblers in one way or another. They really don't know how to run a business and that is why they went to the card games to make money. If it wasn't for the time they had making money from those card games, room would have folded about a year ago...

 

[bud green]

On the same night a couple of days ago they had Jimmy White and John Hennigan (sp ?) playing poker at separate events.

White is a snooker legend and was the defending champion they said on some Poker show on FOX filmed in England. He was the last person knocked out on the show.

Hennigan was shown at Fuscos' pool hall in Philly on an ESPN poker show. I guess he was some kind of pool shark but I've never heard any stories about him matching up. Anyone know how good this guy plays?

 

[azhousepro]

This is one of the truest things I have ever seen posted here.

Almost all of the parts of our industry are ran by pool players (or at least people who would not be doing these things if it weren't for their interest in pool).

The majority of our magazines are ran by pool players. BD on the other hand is ran by a publishing company that makes 4 different monthly mags and a quarterly mag. Is it any coincidence that no one complains about not getting their BD in the mail?

Our men's (and women's) organizations are ran mostly by pool players.

Both the BCA and ACS league systems are ran by pool players (I couldn't tell you how many of the other leagues are ran by pool players).

While some of the entities are very successful, how much more successful could they be if they were ran by non-players?

Mike

Jude,
I have thought about it and I have discovered the biggest problem with pool. It is the fact that these pool players, whether a pro or some short stop, think just because they can draw their ball they can also run a business.

 

[azhousepro]

I know we have some room owners here. If there is interest, I will set up a password protected area for them to discuss things.

Mike

I'm curious why none of the online discussion groups offer a password protected forum just for pool room business owners to use to discuss business topics.

All the online billiards forums are dominated by players and their interests and there is minimal focus on the business end of running a pool room. It would be good for owners to have a private place to network.

 

[nfty9er]

You'd be asking for trouble in River City

Your right....The ODDS are definatly in favor of one of those people winning....The comments by "pro" poker players is that it is unlikely that a "pro" will ever win the event again under the current format...

Thats the one big difference between poker and pool....You can't get lucky and win the US 9-BALL OPEN.....Yes...you need some luck to get through the event...but you better be able to play....

Poker...you just need to get a good run of cards and get lucky in all the races....like the two players the last two years.....Both players "sucked out" a few times where their chip stack should have been crippled.

I still expect that at some point everything will have gone full circle and poker will dye out and pool rooms will start to prosper again....

Perhaps when they decide to not only give gambling to the Indians and allow everyone an equal opportunity at running a poker room....

I see it starting....people are sick of the $5 rake per hand at the Casino. Cash games in Bingo Halls, and "free" poker events are popping up all over....

As soon as poker is made legal in a pool room....All the action will be at the pool room again and not at the Indian Casino robbing the blind.....JMO


In the meantime.....A pool room owner today should explore setting up on-line poker....If its legal to play from home...why not in a pool room....In house tournaments, sit and goes, played through the host site......

A poker table with built in screens, that allows you to log in to the poker network.........Pool tables in the adjoing room for when the woofing starts about how "I only play poker for fun"..."I make my real money playing pool"....


Game On .............I only wish I had the $$$$ to open such a room....Anyone want to loan me the money????

Poker at home is legal as long as you are not charging to play but poker in a pool room would be as illegal as a live game. Your business would be running a gambling establishment for your profit. Only state licensed gaming establishments are allowed to do that. Technically you are gambling in the U.S. That would be a quick way to have the IRS, The ATF, the ABC and the city cops come in a close you down in a flash because of all the possible scenario of laws you might be breaking. We had a back room poker game for quite awhile until we heard the cops got wind of it and were going to come in undercover. GAME OVER, we closed that game down in a flash, really not worth it. The closest you might come to a legal game in a room or bar is having tournaments for no charge and pay back all money to players however most states are declaring that you are profiting from liquor and food sales.