World Straight Pool Updates from New Jersey

hey spidey, I just got a call from Jimmy who is down there, and he said Allen worked the "3" foul AGAIN :) He was on 2 after Oliver ran a 60 sum and looked over to Oliver while walking to the table, and took a 3rd!!!!!....O-man never called it....DOH!...good stuff coming in on the cell phone tonight....as I get it, I"ll pass it on!


Gerry
 
Gerry said:
hey spidey, I just got a call from Jimmy who is down there, and he said Allen worked the "3" foul AGAIN :) He was on 2 after Oliver ran a 60 sum and looked over to Oliver while walking to the table, and took a 3rd!!!!!....O-man never called it....DOH!...good stuff coming in on the cell phone tonight....as I get it, I"ll pass it on!


Gerry
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You mean that Allen Hopkins was on 3 fouls, knew it, and just kept playing as if he was on 2 fouls?

I know it's Oliver Ortmann's job to keep record of the fouls, but seriously, I know what I would have done if I had done 3 fouls in a row... I thought this was a gentleman's sport, and that 14-1 was the ultimate gentleman's game...

EDIT: For those who doesn't know the 3-foul rule in 14-1. If you make 3 fouls in a row, you are penalized with -15 points... That can mean a lot in a race to 100 in a field like this...
 
well Roy...I'm not going down that road! :)....I"m just reporting what was told to me....

G.
 
I thought is was supposed to be a "World Championships". You mean DP couldn't provide referees?
 
Gerry said:
well Roy...I'm not going down that road! :)....I"m just reporting what was told to me....

G.
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I understand, I am not shooting the messenger.

Earlier today I thought "well done" when I heard Allen won. I am not thinking that anymore.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
You mean that Allen Hopkins was on 3 fouls, knew it, and just kept playing as if he was on 2 fouls?

I know it's Oliver Ortmann's job to keep record of the fouls, but seriously, I know what I would have done if I had done 3 fouls in a row... I thought this was a gentleman's sport, and that 14-1 was the ultimate gentleman's game...

EDIT: For those who doesn't know the 3-foul rule in 14-1. If you make 3 fouls in a row, you are penalized with -15 points... That can mean a lot in a race to 100 in a field like this...
Click to expand...

Strongly disagree, Roy. The fifteen point penalty is contingent on being warned by either your opponent (or the match referee, though I doubt there was one). If you foul a third consecutive time, the penalty is just one point unless you have been warned.

This is neither outside the letter or the spirit of the rule. No warning, no fifteen point penalty, end of story. Whether Allen knew he was on two is not relevant.
 
sjm said:
Strongly disagree, Roy. The fifteen point penalty is contingent on being warned by either your opponent (or the match referee, though I doubt there was one). If you foul a third consecutive time, the penalty is just one point unless you have been warned.

This is neither outside the letter or the spirit of the rule. No warning, no fifteen point penalty, end of story. Whether Allen knew he was on two is not relevant.
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I know exactly what the rule says, but I still thought that 14-1 was a gentleman's game.

I am willing to bet that if Ralf Souquet was the guy who was on 3 foul, he would have said so, and taken the penalty...

I stand by my opinion that it was not a classy move from Allen.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
I understand, I am not shooting the messenger.

Earlier today I thought "well done" when I heard Allen won. I am not thinking that anymore.
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Hearsay, is all it is until better facts are presented. Allen has won real
world championships and is a real gentleman.
I believe he's in the H.O.F. :p

fwiw- there where referees at every table at the Million Dollar 9-event:grin:

Thank you for the updates, any info on Maidoff vs Feijen match or any
of Bobs matches

Thanks
 
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Roy Steffensen said:
I know exactly what the rule says, but I still thought that 14-1 was a gentleman's game.

I am willing to bet that if Ralf Souquet was the guy who was on 3 foul, he would have said so, and taken the penalty...

I stand by my opinion that it was not a classy move from Allen.
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It still comes down to this: you can't permit a situation competitively in which whether a player knew he was on two has to be interpreted.

It is quite possible that a Souquet or a Robles would handle the situation differently, but it would still be inappropriate to call a fifteen point penalty on oneself after the third foul. The moral "high-ground' would be to announce to opponent that "I am on two fouls" prior to shooting, thereby establishing the needed recognition situationally. Then, if one fouls, the penalty would qualify under the rules. If my opponent told me of a third consecutive foul after the fact and I had not warned them, I would say "the penalty is just one point, for you were not officially warned." That's also the moral high-ground. In the situation reported in the Hopkins match, if both players took the moral high-ground, the penalty would have been just one point, as Allen's offer to take the penalty would have been declined.

Just one man's opinion, and I'm a sportsmanship fanatic.
 
sjm said:
It still comes down to this: you can't permit a situation competitively in which whether a player knew he was on two has to be interpreted.

It is quite possible that a Souquet or a Robles would handle the situation differently, but it would still be inappropriate to call a fifteen point penalty on oneself after the third foul. The moral "high-ground' would be to announce to opponent that "I am on two fouls" prior to shooting, thereby establishing the needed recognition situationally. Then, if one fouls, the penalty would qualify under the rules. If my opponent told me of a third consecutive foul after the fact and I had not warned them, I would say "the penalty is just one point, for you were not officially warned." That's also the moral high-ground. In the situation reported in the Hopkins match, if both players took the moral high-ground, the penalty would have been just one point, as Allen's offer to take the penalty would have been declined.

Just one man's opinion, and I'm a sportsmanship fanatic.
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I totally agree with you that Ortmann should have declined the 15-point penalty, because he didn't warn Allen when he was on 2 fouls. But the fact here is that Allen didn't say anything, and give Ortmann the chance to prove himself to be a gentleman.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
I totally agree with you that Ortmann should have declined the 15-point penalty, because he didn't warn Allen when he was on 2 fouls. But the fact here is that Allen didn't say anything, and give Ortmann the chance to prove himself to be a gentleman.
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Looks like we're on the same page after all, Roy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with such clarity.
 
updatea

So I'm on a phone so bare with me.

John Schmidt was at 99 and snookered himself. Marc vidal was at 80 something and ran out to win 100 to 99!!

Engret beat Liz Ford 100 to 17.

Earl herring is great! He's currently on a 30 ball opening run against Corey. Mike Sigel and the Mexican are tied at 33. Barouty is beating maidoff 48 to 31. Robles is beating Smith 76 30.
 
GG11 said:
So I'm on a phone so bare with me.

John Schmidt was at 99 and snookered himself. Marc vidal was at 80 something and ran out to win 100 to 99!!

Engret beat Liz Ford 100 to 17.

Earl herring is great! He's currently on a 30 ball opening run against Corey. Mike Sigel and the Mexican are tied at 33. Barouty is beating maidoff 48 to 31. Robles is beating Smith 76 30.
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Wow. Earl Herring is in the field! I remember him well, as he played in the first three PPPA World Straight Pool Championships from 1976-78, all of which I attended. He was quite a player, finishing 4th in 1976 and 6th in 1977.

Also, congrats to my friend Marc Vidal.
 
updates

Robles winning 81 to 50 against Smith. Yednak beating Davis 44 to 37 with yednak at the table. Earl's run just ended at 53! Good job Earl! Sigel up 59 to 34. Barouty winning 62 to 45 against maidoff I think. Jetchi (German kid) winning 55 to 7.
 
Hi Folks,

Anyone know how Dan Heidrich made out in his first two matches? First was Dave Daya. Second was Shawn Wilkie. Thanks for the assistance. What tables are they playing on?

Lyn
 
updates

Barouty wins 100 to 62. Robles up 95 to 60and at the table. Drea is at the table with 69 points after being down 55 to 0.

Now Robles wins!

Duel on a run at 45.

Yednak up 67 to 47 against Davis!
 
Go Earl!Go Bernie!Earl is from my home room in NY,Gallery Billiards,he is a great guy and true gentleman. :smile:
 
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