Would Like Some Ideas On Playing Better Shape

[lstevedus]

I have been thinking about how to word this since I came home from the pool room today about 7 hours ago. I have been playing pool a long time. The last 2 years I have been able to play a lot, mostly bar box 8 ball, but I also play some 1 pocket and 9ball on 8 and 9 footers. My PSR and ball pocketing is pretty solid, enough so that I have been able to learn more of the strategy used in playing these games the last couple of years. Here is the area I would like to focus more on now, cue ball control, shape, position, whatever you want to call it. I want to improve my control of Whitey. I also play on different types of tables with different types of cloth with different types of cue balls. I memorized Bert Kinister's 60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball years ago. I also have Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement, both the book and dvd, and its ok too, but I would like something different. I really don't know what I'm looking for in the way of position exercises, just something that will help sharpen my position skills. Ideally it would be something that would be fun and interesting too, but I am not allergic to hard work and practice. I've been doing it all my life.

So..if any of you instructors, or for that matter, anybody else, would like to share some ideas with me I would really appreciate it. I always try to pay it forward.

 

[victorl]

You can set up some shots or play a rack of 9-ball and put a piece of cloth or paper on the table where you want the cue ball to land after every shot. If you don't land there repeat the shot until you can do it several times and you can also try to get to different areas of the table with the same shot as well. It can be frustrating and takes a lot of discipline, but it gives you a good sense of what positional shots you need to work on and how accurate your positioning is.

As you get better, you can make use a smaller piece of paper/cloth for more pinpoint position.
I'll never forget when I was still a C player, watching Paul Potier play a rack of 9-ball, putting a piece of paper the size of the cue ball on the table after every shot and having the cue ball land on it nearly every time.

 

[lstevedus]

You can set up some shots or play a rack of 9-ball and put a piece of cloth or paper on the table where you want the cue ball to land after every shot. If you don't land there repeat the shot until you can do it several times and you can also try to get to different areas of the table with the same shot as well. It can be frustrating and takes a lot of discipline, but it gives you a good sense of what positional shots you need to work on and how accurate your positioning is.

As you get better, you can make use a smaller piece of paper/cloth for more pinpoint position.
I'll never forget when I was still a C player, watching Paul Potier play a rack of 9-ball, putting a piece of paper the size of the cue ball on the table after every shot and having the cue ball land on it nearly every time.

Thanks..good idea

 

[BeiberLvr]

The best system for position play is experience.

Set up easy cut shots and pay attention to where the CB hits the rail(s). Shoot the same shot at different speeds and with spin, and make note of the changes.

When using the rails, pick spots that you want the CB to hit (rail targets). After awhile you'll start becoming more accurate, and scratching less

 

[measureman]

Back in the early 60's when i first started playing pool I hung out in a pool room that was mostly high school kids of which i was one.The owner was an old time very good player that used to compete in the Mosconi,Caras era and played most of the great players of his time.
From time to time he would set up a difficult position shot. Usually 2 or 3 rails. He would show us how to play the shot. Then he would lay a dollar bill on the table where he wanted the cue ball to wind up. We all would take one shot and the first one to land on it got the dollar. Now this was back when a dollar got you 4 packs of smokes or 4 gallons of gas.
So after a while us kids would do the same thing but we modified it a bit. We would all put up 50 cents or so and the first one to land on a dollar bill got the pot.
It was a lot of fun but this is how I learned a lot about 2 and 3 rail position shots.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I recommend the Pro book and Advanced pro book reference series.

If you do the workout as outlined your position play will improve.

 

[lstevedus]

Back in the early 60's when i first started playing pool I hung out in a pool room that was mostly high school kids of which i was one.The owner was an old time very good player that used to compete in the Mosconi,Caras era and played most of the great players of his time.
From time to time he would set up a difficult position shot. Usually 2 or 3 rails. He would show us how to play the shot. Then he would lay a dollar bill on the table where he wanted the cue ball to wind up. We all would take one shot and the first one to land on it got the dollar. Now this was back when a dollar got you 4 packs of smokes or 4 gallons of gas.
So after a while us kids would do the same thing but we modified it a bit. We would all put up 50 cents or so and the first one to land on a dollar bill got the pot.
It was a lot of fun but this is how I learned a lot about 2 and 3 rail position shots.

I can relate to this. We played a modified game of 9 ball called "take off" for 25 cents a game back then. You racked the balls a certain way, then whatever ball was made on the break you took all the balls off of a lesser number and began your turn at the table. If you made the 8 on the break, you were shooting the 9. If you played for 50 cents a game you were in serious action. If you played for a dollar you were suspected of being a hustler. Thanks for your story. It brought back memories.

 

[JoeW]

I like this exercise to learn cue ball control. It was originally published by Ted Brown. From what I have read he used it with several (?) professional women players as a teaching tool. It has been revised and used by other instructors. Dr Dave has another modification as well.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/CBControl1.htm

 

[Neil]

Learn how the cb reacts off ob. (what a stun shot, draw shot, and follow shot do repeatedly) Then learn about half a dozen reference shots. Once you do that, the rest isn't hard to figure out.

 

[bbb]

how well do you do on tuckers drills??
for example his one rail/2 rail drills??
or his ten ball run out where you go side to side??
i find them very helpfull
also the pro book by henning and his advanced pro book
has typical shots to set up and position paths and targets to strive for
these are shots that come up frequently so mastering the drills should help in games
i havent yet started doing them all but it looks to be worthwhile
http://www.ozonebilliards.com/probobobhe.html
http://www.ozonebilliards.com/adprobobobhe.html
there is ALOT more in his books that should be usefull
i am not an instructor

 

[lstevedus]

Lots of good ideas here..thanks.

 

[randallt6]

Work on shooting shots and bringing the cueball off 2 rails or 3 rails so that whitey comes INTO the line of shape instead of coming across the tangent line.... focus on trying to play shape so that the cueball comes into the line of shot and not across it, know what i mean??? this comes up alot in rotation, instead of going 1 rail to the next ball, go 2 rails to come into the line of shot.... Earl is great at this, he really uses the rails correctly... dont be afraid to use more rails to play better shape.

 

[FranCrimi]

I have been thinking about how to word this since I came home from the pool room today about 7 hours ago. I have been playing pool a long time. The last 2 years I have been able to play a lot, mostly bar box 8 ball, but I also play some 1 pocket and 9ball on 8 and 9 footers. My PSR and ball pocketing is pretty solid, enough so that I have been able to learn more of the strategy used in playing these games the last couple of years. Here is the area I would like to focus more on now, cue ball control, shape, position, whatever you want to call it. I want to improve my control of Whitey. I also play on different types of tables with different types of cloth with different types of cue balls. I memorized Bert Kinister's 60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball years ago. I also have Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement, both the book and dvd, and its ok too, but I would like something different. I really don't know what I'm looking for in the way of position exercises, just something that will help sharpen my position skills. Ideally it would be something that would be fun and interesting too, but I am not allergic to hard work and practice. I've been doing it all my life.

So..if any of you instructors, or for that matter, anybody else, would like to share some ideas with me I would really appreciate it. I always try to pay it forward.

Lstevedus, I know that feeling. You feel like you're stuck and don't know how to get to the next level.

I find that one of the problems with doing pre-set drills is that often times players have a difficult time transferring that information to real game play. Some enjoy doing drills and they can make the transition. You have to figure out if you're that type or not.

There is another form of drill you can create for yourself and that requires your being objective about yourself and your playing skills. If you make an error in a game, make a note about it and then take it to the practice table. Practice it in many different ways, as you would with a drill --- But this drill would have been tailored specifically for you.

At a certain point in your playing career, you will get better just one shot at a time. But think about that for a minute ----- One shot can mean 10 shots in different situations. It can mean the difference between getting out of line in the middle of a run and keeping a good run going.

Maybe you should just start thinking about really nailing down one shot at a time. Whether it's a ball pocketing mistake or a position mistake, I think often times it's much more productive than trying to improve a lot of things at the same time --- such as overall position play. Yikes. That's a tall order.

What if you were to cut your position errors down by one or two instances per rack? Just something as simple as that can translate into winning many more games.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Lstevedus, I know that feeling. You feel like you're stuck and don't know how to get to the next level.

I find that one of the problems with doing pre-set drills is that often times players have a difficult time transferring that information to real game play. Some enjoy doing drills and they can make the transition. You have to figure out if you're that type or not.

There is another form of drill you can create for yourself and that requires your being objective about yourself and your playing skills. If you make an error in a game, make a note about it and then take it to the practice table. Practice it in many different ways, as you would with a drill --- But this drill would have been tailored specifically for you.

At a certain point in your playing career, you will get better just one shot at a time. But think about that for a minute ----- One shot can mean 10 shots in different situations. It can mean the difference between getting out of line in the middle of a run and keeping a good run going.

Maybe you should just start thinking about really nailing down one shot at a time. Whether it's a ball pocketing mistake or a position mistake, I think often times it's much more productive than trying to improve a lot of things at the same time --- such as overall position play. Yikes. That's a tall order.

What if you were to cut your position errors down by one or two instances per rack? Just something as simple as that can translate into winning many more games.

Excelent post. Great advice on building one shot at a time. My original post was very similar to yours in that I meant to notice an error you make and then work on it but I was concerned he might be making to many errors and feel like this process would never work. The way you explained it was great though.

I still think Bob's work is great too though and worth the effort for Istevedus. If you do the series as he explains you will build a foundation from which to build on. When he says not to move on to the next shot until you can perform this one 85% of the time then do that. There are aspects of that shot that need to be learned and perfected.

Do the work and you will see the rewards. Lots of repetitions. Don't give up.

 

[lstevedus]

Lstevedus, I know that feeling. You feel like you're stuck and don't know how to get to the next level.

I find that one of the problems with doing pre-set drills is that often times players have a difficult time transferring that information to real game play. Some enjoy doing drills and they can make the transition. You have to figure out if you're that type or not.

There is another form of drill you can create for yourself and that requires your being objective about yourself and your playing skills. If you make an error in a game, make a note about it and then take it to the practice table. Practice it in many different ways, as you would with a drill --- But this drill would have been tailored specifically for you.

At a certain point in your playing career, you will get better just one shot at a time. But think about that for a minute ----- One shot can mean 10 shots in different situations. It can mean the difference between getting out of line in the middle of a run and keeping a good run going.

Maybe you should just start thinking about really nailing down one shot at a time. Whether it's a ball pocketing mistake or a position mistake, I think often times it's much more productive than trying to improve a lot of things at the same time --- such as overall position play. Yikes. That's a tall order.

What if you were to cut your position errors down by one or two instances per rack? Just something as simple as that can translate into winning many more games.

This is basically what I have done the last year or so. About a year ago I started keeping a notebook on what works and doesn't work. My motto has been "if I think of it, write it down", so I keep note paper in my cue case too. For instance, last night I missed a difficult shot on the 8ball that cost me a break and run against a very good player that also put me out of the tournament. This morning I wrote in my book of pool notes what I did wrong on that shot. Luckily I had bought him in the calcutta and he won the tournament, I finished in a tie for fourth. I also keep notes on strategy that I see used by the better players to win games. I think the one thing that has probably helped me the most has been to establish a solid Pre-Shot routine and discipline myself to use it, even on the break. When I was at the Derby in January, I watched a guy from Germany I believe, by the name of Ralph Eckert defeat a lot of the top players in the 9ball, including Shane. The thing that stood out to me about his game was his PSR. It was very consistent. I watched him play several matches.

Thanks for your input again Fran. You always have things to say that help my game.

 

[Neil]

This is basically what I have done the last year or so. About a year ago I started keeping a notebook on what works and doesn't work. My motto has been "if I think of it, write it down", so I keep note paper in my cue case too. For instance, last night I missed a difficult shot on the 8ball that cost me a break and run against a very good player that also put me out of the tournament. This morning I wrote in my book of pool notes what I did wrong on that shot. Luckily I had bought him in the calcutta and he won the tournament, I finished in a tie for fourth. I also keep notes on strategy that I see used by the better players to win games. I think the one thing that has probably helped me the most has been to establish a solid Pre-Shot routine and discipline myself to use it, even on the break. When I was at the Derby in January, I watched a guy from Germany I believe, by the name of Ralph Eckert defeat a lot of the top players in the 9ball, including Shane. The thing that stood out to me about his game was his PSR. It was very consistent. I watched him play several matches.

Thanks for your input again Fran. You always have things to say that help my game.

Look up Eckert on you-tube. He has a number of videos on position play. Also take a long hard look at Dr. Dave's BU exams, and the associated videos he produced on how to practice the drills and get better at them. If you don't learn position play from just those two things, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[lstevedus]

Look up Eckert on you-tube. He has a number of videos on position play. Also take a long hard look at Dr. Dave's BU exams, and the associated videos he produced on how to practice the drills and get better at them. If you don't learn position play from just those two things, then I don't know what to tell you.

Thanks Neil, you are another that I pay attention to. Maybe I will get to meet you sometime since I live in central Ohio.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Here's how I learned...

I have been thinking about how to word this since I came home from the pool room today about 7 hours ago. I have been playing pool a long time. The last 2 years I have been able to play a lot, mostly bar box 8 ball, but I also play some 1 pocket and 9ball on 8 and 9 footers. My PSR and ball pocketing is pretty solid, enough so that I have been able to learn more of the strategy used in playing these games the last couple of years. Here is the area I would like to focus more on now, cue ball control, shape, position, whatever you want to call it. I want to improve my control of Whitey. I also play on different types of tables with different types of cloth with different types of cue balls. I memorized Bert Kinister's 60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball years ago. I also have Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement, both the book and dvd, and its ok too, but I would like something different. I really don't know what I'm looking for in the way of position exercises, just something that will help sharpen my position skills. Ideally it would be something that would be fun and interesting too, but I am not allergic to hard work and practice. I've been doing it all my life.

So..if any of you instructors, or for that matter, anybody else, would like to share some ideas with me I would really appreciate it. I always try to pay it forward.

I think there are several basic ways...

Watch good players (live or on screen) and try to guess what there plan is and why. Good announcers often help with this.

Watch with other people so you can discuss and share ideas.

Get one or more of the many books and videos available from folks like Robert Byrnes, Dave Alciatore, Garry Kanov, Shari Stauch, Fran Crimi, Bob Jewell, Phil Capelle, Ewa Mataya, and others, some of whom post on AZ.

Get personal instructions from qualified instructors.

AFTER YOU HAVE THE BASIC FUNDAMENTAL SKILLS, you expand your knowledge by IMITATION, IMAGINATION and EXPERIMENTATION.

When I teach strategy, one of my methods is to play a few games with my student, and tell them exactly what I'm thinking as I look at the table situations in front of me. So I'm teaching them HOW to think about the situation they face and possible plans. Seems to work pretty well.

 

[lstevedus]

Look up Eckert on you-tube. He has a number of videos on position play. Also take a long hard look at Dr. Dave's BU exams, and the associated videos he produced on how to practice the drills and get better at them. If you don't learn position play from just those two things, then I don't know what to tell you.

I have been working on Eckert's videos. That is some good stuff there.

 

[CJ Wiley]

champion player will play slightly different position because of their selected Zones

I have been thinking about how to word this since I came home from the pool room today about 7 hours ago. I have been playing pool a long time. The last 2 years I have been able to play a lot, mostly bar box 8 ball, but I also play some 1 pocket and 9ball on 8 and 9 footers. My PSR and ball pocketing is pretty solid, enough so that I have been able to learn more of the strategy used in playing these games the last couple of years. Here is the area I would like to focus more on now, cue ball control, shape, position, whatever you want to call it. I want to improve my control of Whitey. I also play on different types of tables with different types of cloth with different types of cue balls. I memorized Bert Kinister's 60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball years ago. I also have Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement, both the book and dvd, and its ok too, but I would like something different. I really don't know what I'm looking for in the way of position exercises, just something that will help sharpen my position skills. Ideally it would be something that would be fun and interesting too, but I am not allergic to hard work and practice. I've been doing it all my life.

So..if any of you instructors, or for that matter, anybody else, would like to share some ideas with me I would really appreciate it. I always try to pay it forward.

The most important visual aspect of position play is recognizing and utilizing Zones. It's easier to show than describe, the best way is to always extend your cue ball's potential line to a solid target, such as a diamond on the table (I never use a pocket even if I'm not getting close to it).

It's like backing down a long, thin driveway. You can try to stay on the road by looking at it, or you can pick a target (telephone pole, tree, mail box, etc) in the middle line of the drive way and simply back towards this distant target (with no intention of driving clear to it).

This is the same principle. Every champion player will play slightly different position because of their selected. Yours will be too, just remember, you mind doesn't understand stopping a ball on a flat surface as well as directing towards a solid destination. Then you can free yourself to concentrate on cue ball targeting and shot speed.

'The Game is the Teacher'.com