Would you bet on this shot?

[VIProfessor]

Here's a question, particularly for "A" players. There's a guy in my hometown that goes everywhere with a proposition bet as follows: The cue ball is on the head rail about a half-inch from the corner pocket and the object ball is in the middle of the table, forming a straight in shot to the diagonally opposite corner pocket. Now I know that it requires almost perfect mechanics and as such is not a good bet for "B" players and below. Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

 

[Eric.]

Here's a question, particularly for "A" players. There's a guy in my hometown that goes everywhere with a proposition bet as follows: The cue ball is on the head rail about a half-inch from the corner pocket and the object ball is in the middle of the table, forming a straight in shot to the diagonally opposite corner pocket. Now I know that it requires almost perfect mechanics and as such is not a good bet for "B" players and below. Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

Depends on the size of the pockets and type of cloth, but generally, that shot is not too hard.

A few years ago, there was someone making that shot, just about every time, on a snooker table with Pool balls, at Qmasters in VA.


Eric

 

[pharaoh68]

Take the bet. All you need is a good eye and a decent stroke. If there is nothing more than just making the shot, it isn't really all that hard.

I'm not saying its a gimme either. But its FAR from impossible. "B" players should make the shot and a good "C" player is 50/50 from here too.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Here's a question, particularly for "A" players. There's a guy in my hometown that goes everywhere with a proposition bet as follows: The cue ball is on the head rail about a half-inch from the corner pocket and the object ball is in the middle of the table, forming a straight in shot to the diagonally opposite corner pocket. Now I know that it requires almost perfect mechanics and as such is not a good bet for "B" players and below. Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

Making the ball is not that hard.....If someone is offering that bet, they have probably practiced the shot.....oh about a million times or so....

However....If you add the element of drawing the CB back into the opposite corner pocket....I may have to take the bet...

 

[cueman]

Making the ball is not that hard.....If someone is offering that bet, they have probably practiced the shot.....oh about a million times or so....

However....If you add the element of drawing the CB back into the opposite corner pocket....I may have to take the bet...

With the cue ball froze to the rail as mentioned, I think you would have a very safe bet they won't make it and draw the cue ball back into the corner.

 

[Koop]

Not too tough.

I just hit it 8 out of 10 on my lunch hour.

 

[supergreenman]

Here's a question, particularly for "A" players. There's a guy in my hometown that goes everywhere with a proposition bet as follows: The cue ball is on the head rail about a half-inch from the corner pocket and the object ball is in the middle of the table, forming a straight in shot to the diagonally opposite corner pocket. Now I know that it requires almost perfect mechanics and as such is not a good bet for "B" players and below. Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

I'd bet on this shot. Dollars to dough nuts.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here's a question, particularly for "A" players. There's a guy in my hometown that goes everywhere with a proposition bet as follows: The cue ball is on the head rail about a half-inch from the corner pocket and the object ball is in the middle of the table, forming a straight in shot to the diagonally opposite corner pocket. Now I know that it requires almost perfect mechanics and as such is not a good bet for "B" players and below. Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

Some questions about the shot:

Is the cue ball frozen to the head rail?

Is the bet even money on one shot?

Does the player get some practice shots?

Is this on a 9-foot with small pockets?

Does the player slow-roll the ball or does he play it with good force?

Under the right conditions, five in a row on a tight-pocketed 9-foot table is a winning proposition for a B player. Under other conditions, even money on a single shot for Efren is a bad bet for Efren.

 

[Koop]

Some questions about the shot:

Is the cue ball frozen to the head rail?

Actually, if that's the case I would need to try it again. I did not freeze it to the rail.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Some questions about the shot:

Is the cue ball frozen to the head rail?

Is the bet even money on one shot?

Does the player get some practice shots?

Is this on a 9-foot with small pockets?

Does the player slow-roll the ball or does he play it with good force?

Under the right conditions, five in a row on a tight-pocketed 9-foot table is a winning proposition for a B player. Under other conditions, even money on a single shot for Efren is a bad bet for Efren.

Agreed. If this were tournament play and that was my game-winner, I wouldn't be happy. If I get to shoot this shot all day, I'm certain it'll start to click quickly, quicker if it's not frozen.

 

[jay helfert]

This shot (and proposition) has been around for years. Object ball on center spot and cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket. About a 10' straight in shot. On a reasonably tough table, with 4.5" pockets, if you can make it over half the time, you will win the money. It takes a good player to make more than half the shots on this one.

Now the really good players used to bet on who could make this shot and draw the cue ball back into the corner pocket. This is a big time tough shot. If you can do it one in ten, you can play! Many players could shoot at this one all day and never come close. You must jack up and fire the ball in and suck the cue ball back. Only a very good player with a big time stroke can get there on this shot.

 

[VIProfessor]

Some questions about the shot:

Is the cue ball frozen to the head rail?

Is the bet even money on one shot?

Does the player get some practice shots?

Is this on a 9-foot with small pockets?

Does the player slow-roll the ball or does he play it with good force?

Under the right conditions, five in a row on a tight-pocketed 9-foot table is a winning proposition for a B player. Under other conditions, even money on a single shot for Efren is a bad bet for Efren.

Hi Bob,

I've been a huge fan of yours for many years, ever since picking up Byrne's Standard Book of Pool and Billiards back in about 1987 or so, and I am honored to have you respond to my question.

To clarify, the cue ball is frozen to the head rail, the shot is on an 8-foot bar box with 4 1/2 inch pockets, it's even money on one shot and Oh!--one other thing that I forgot to mention. You've got to shoot with the person yelling smack in your ear from about three feet away. This last item is non-negotiable, and the deal is you've got to put up with the talk or don't bet! Finally, no practice shots!

 

[corvette1340]

This shot (and proposition) has been around for years. Object ball on center spot and cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket. About a 10' straight in shot. On a reasonably tough table, with 4.5" pockets, if you can make it over half the time, you will win the money. It takes a good player to make more than half the shots on this one.

Now the really good players used to bet on who could make this shot and draw the cue ball back into the corner pocket. This is a big time tough shot. If you can do it one in ten, you can play! Many players could shoot at this one all day and never come close. You must jack up and fire the ball in and suck the cue ball back. Only a very good player with a big time stroke can get there on this shot.

Ive seen Bruce Berrong do this a few times. It requires an extremely powerful stroke

 

[av84fun]

BRKNRUN...::However....If you add the element of drawing the CB back into the opposite corner pocket....I may have to take the bet...>>

MAY have to take it?? The prop was that the CB is "on the head rail" which must mean it is frozen to it. To get enough draw to suck the CB back to the neighborhood of the corner pocket is a championship shot and to SINK the CB into the pocket is no more than a 1-3 shot for a World Champion.

IMHO.
Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

VIProfessor...<<To clarify, the cue ball is frozen to the head rail, the shot is on an 8-foot bar box with 4 1/2 inch pockets, it's even money on one shot and Oh!--one other thing that I forgot to mention. You've got to shoot with the person yelling smack in your ear from about three feet away. This last item is non-negotiable, and the deal is you've got to put up with the talk or don't bet! Finally, no practice shots! >>

An A player should turn this bet down.

I would TAKE the bet against the proposing player IF...there were THREE bets on THREE different tables.

I don't think it would be quite 50/50 doing it that way.

But here's a Tip...one that I got published in P&B Mag. I called it the "Kelly Shot."

You have probably noticed that Julie Kelly takes a TINY back stroke...if any at all. (Allen Hopkins also takes a VERY short backstroke but not as TINY as Julie's).

In any event, the benefit of no backstroke is an ultimate degree of accuracy because it virtually eliminates the chance of the cue tip striking the CB in an unintended spot...which has cause curve, throw and/or cue stick deflection. SPEED control may be sacrificed but for shots where making the OB is the PRIME objective, the Kelly Shot is the way to go. I have tested this for HOURS on end and the pocketing percentage is CLEARLY greater.

What you to is position the cue tip about 1/4 inch behind the CB on the DEAD CENTER LINE, take DEAD AIM and STROKE THROUGH....not PUNCH the shot.

It is possible that your prop better uses that technique. Try it. You'll see what I mean. It is ESPECIALLY effective on frozen rail shots regarding which you probably need to jack up at least a little which will ADD to the accuracy errors mentione above.

Regards,
Jim

 

[td873]

Is it a good bet for an "A" player?

1) An "A" rated player should have the mechanics to make this shot.

2) Proposition shots are always bad bets to take. The person offering the bet wouldn't do so if they were sure to lose. If they are offering it to you, they figure you can't make it - so it might be time to evaluate your own skill level.

3) Even a "D" rated player could make this shot at will if it was all they ever practiced.

4) A GREAT shot is to make the ball AND THEN draw back and scratch in the starting pocket.

-td

 

[Bob Jewett]

... To clarify, the cue ball is frozen to the head rail, the shot is on an 8-foot bar box with 4 1/2 inch pockets, it's even money on one shot and Oh!--one other thing that I forgot to mention. You've got to shoot with the person yelling smack in your ear from about three feet away. This last item is non-negotiable, and the deal is you've got to put up with the talk or don't bet! Finally, no practice shots!

Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't try the shot.

 

[BRKNRUN]

BRKNRUN...::However....If you add the element of drawing the CB back into the opposite corner pocket....I may have to take the bet...>>

MAY have to take it?? The prop was that the CB is "on the head rail" which must mean it is frozen to it. To get enough draw to suck the CB back to the neighborhood of the corner pocket is a championship shot and to SINK the CB into the pocket is no more than a 1-3 shot for a World Champion.

IMHO.
Regards,
Jim

I missed the frozen to the rail part...But either way...I would bet against a 1 attempt shot to pocket the ball and draw back and make the ball in the opposite corner.......(I would not bet against someone who bet they could just make the object ball)

I would also make sure I inspect the balls before they got the attempt.....A freshly Turtle Waxed CB can make the draw part deceivingly easy……..even frozen to the rail…

 

[Donovan]

One shot and no practice shots...how many ppieces of playing cards are under the head right table leg...that is what I want to know?

 

[TheOne]

Now the really good players used to bet on who could make this shot and draw the cue ball back into the corner pocket. This is a big time tough shot. If you can do it one in ten, you can play! Many players could shoot at this one all day and never come close. You must jack up and fire the ball in and suck the cue ball back. Only a very good player with a big time stroke can get there on this shot.

Hi Jay, sure wish I was in Asia

I liked the sound of this shot so slapped the cam on and had a bash. I missed a few wild ones (best excuse = not wearing my contacts! ) but here's my first (wild) 9 attempts...

PS
My table plays pretty tight but its reasonably fast.