Would you take pool lessons online?

SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Would you pay for online pool lessons if:

1) It was real-time, and highly interactive

2) You can see the instructor with high quality video

3) You can hear the instructor with high quality audio

4) Of course, the instructor can see/hear you very well

5) Entirely web-based, with no software to install

6) You had a menu of tour pros to choose from, each w/ their own skill-sets and specialties

7) It was EASY (meaning, if you're a computer novice, no prob) and AFFORDABLE (cost a % of face-to-face lessons)


Basically, after selecting your instructor (use your imagination here) and pay by credit card, you are given a time slot to log-in to your virtual pool instruction room. Given the scenario, you would have to have a cable modem or dsl, wireless within your home (preferred), a laptop (preferred), webcam/microphone and a pool table.

Lessons would not need to be all about mechanics, you could also schedule "consults" with the champion/instructor of your choice... scheduling an hour of interactive online Q&As---while using systems like the Wei table to discuss scenarios where you may have lost money or lost crucial games.... even discuss mental aspects of games.

We have a new virtual communications technology that is currently being used by physicians for telemedicine consultations--- I know would work well under this scenario. I'm convinced if we can help a physician in a developing country learn new medical procedures and how to perform new surgical "moves," I'm convinced a pool player in a developed country can learn online as well.

Everything at this point is complete... technology, pros 'buy-in', everything...

The question is, if you can schedule a tour pro or instructor and meet with them online as easy as scheduling a doctor's appointment.... would you?

By the way, of course there would be challenges and negatives... that's not the question. :)
 
I might pay like a dollar a minute to talk with a pro in real-time about any question I wanted to ask...

But I wouldn't sign-up for full out lessons. They would never be able to circle the table to get a better view of what you are doing, so there would still be serious limitations. The consultation idea is nice, but the real-time lessons just won't work as well as finding a good instructor and having them watch you in person from any angle they need to.

Just IMO
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Would you pay for online pool lessons if:.....By the way, of course there would be challenges and negatives... that's not the question. :)
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SWC,
Even for a "pool instruction junkie" such as myself; the answer is no. The dreaded parallax effect virtually assures all sorts of confusion and misunderstanding (see any video with Billy and Danny D. arguing about whether a certain ball goes or not).

Unless you had a dedicated cameraman to follow you around and get the angles just right for every shot and table layout; it would be doomed (or at least would never reach the level of personal instruction with the instructor present). On the other hand, it might be a kick to have a short session with someone famous.

P.S. - I got to see Mike Davis play a bunch this weekend; he played fairly well, and was very professional - a pleasure to meet and watch.
 
Interesting idea, would it have the pro looking at videos of yourself? It seems to me that if you need advice on mechanics, face-to-face is simply much more effective, even accounting for the extra cost. And for something like asking questions about a Wei table, honestly I think you could get just as good answers posting it here.

That being said, I'm sure people would be willing to pay something to chat with a pro, if it's really a fraction of the cost of lessons. But then, would a pro be willing?
 
Williebetmore said:
SWC,
Even for a "pool instruction junkie" such as myself; the answer is no. The dreaded parallax effect virtually assures all sorts of confusion and misunderstanding (see any video with Billy and Danny D. arguing about whether a certain ball goes or not).

Unless you had a dedicated cameraman to follow you around and get the angles just right for every shot and table layout; it would be doomed (or at least would never reach the level of personal instruction with the instructor present). On the other hand, it might be a kick to have a short session with someone famous.

P.S. - I got to see Mike Davis play a bunch this weekend; he played fairly well, and was very professional - a pleasure to meet and watch.
Click to expand...

The instructor's side would/could have a pan/zoom/tilt to get everything from their perspective to you, but from you-back would be one perspective. I hear what you're saying and agree, and that's why I said think beyond mechanics.

Diagramming shots, strategies and discussing knowledge would be cake.

Does everyone remember that huge One Pocket book, the one that featured the best players, and scenarios of matches they played? Would it be cool to consult with players like that, and have them shoot you scenarios ... "What would you do in this situation" and work from there.

This is an idea I've been throwing around for some time. Personally, if I could conference w/ a pro of my choice, I would... if nothing else than help me with some of my 14.1 patterns. But... that's me. That's why I'm interested in opinions, good/bad/ugly.

Mike is the classiest guy anywhere, by the way. He'll tell you anything you want to know, and won't let you leave until you're satisfied. I've been blessed to see him progress from being a champion (when I first met him years ago) to a world-beater now. He's fun to watch, and his stroke is different. Almost like watching Lee Trevino play a round in his prime, ya know?

I thought you were going to ask about our telemedicine stuff! :p
 
PKM said:
Interesting idea, would it have the pro looking at videos of yourself? It seems to me that if you need advice on mechanics, face-to-face is simply much more effective, even accounting for the extra cost. And for something like asking questions about a Wei table, honestly I think you could get just as good answers posting it here.

That being said, I'm sure people would be willing to pay something to chat with a pro, if it's really a fraction of the cost of lessons. But then, would a pro be willing?
Click to expand...

I suppose you could; however, how much more content can you cover live than posting 1 question at a time here-- and not necessarily getting the right person to answer? Yes, the pro can see you as you play-- not as good as anyone in-person, but see you they can.

Like I said earlier, if a surgeon can learn a new debridement technique, incision, skin flap or nerve block... the technology can deliver anything pool related. Distance is NEVER as good as in-person. The question is... would the market pay for knowledge at a distance?
 
There isn't a single instructor in the world who is going to do a better job via a webcam then what a competent instructor can do in person. Anyone who has ANY experience with web-meetings (even if the technology were perfect) is going to agree.

You NEED to be present.
 
I am an avid student of the game also but could not see paying for lessons with a instructor via video conference.

I have had some good instruction with well know instructors, in person, but cannot imagine working with an instructor via video. JMHO... Good luck!

JBK
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
There isn't a single instructor in the world who is going to do a better job via a webcam then what a competent instructor can do in person. Anyone who has ANY experience with web-meetings (even if the technology were perfect) is going to agree.

You NEED to be present.
Click to expand...

I totally agree.... no one online can do the same job as someone in person. You're also implying no one can teach pool content online - and that's simply not the case. We're not talking about web-meetings... this wouldn't be "WEBEX".

Like pool players, doctor's can instruct best in-person as well. If there's a doctor in Guatamala that no longer amputates limbs because of what he learned online - someone in the pool world can be helped online as well. Pool isn't surgery, that's for sure. :)

I guess my point is, I'm "guessing".... there are times when money, time, and availability for instructors may prohibit getting an in-person session w/ a world champion or top billiard instructor. Mechanics would be the hardest to do, but not impossible. John Madden-style markups on table-layouts and interactive Q&A is much easier. If that isn't sellable, my question is answered.

If any instructors/pros who post here want to get a peek, PM me.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
I guess my point is, I'm "guessing".... there are times when money, time, and availability for instructors may prohibit getting an in-person session w/ a world champion or top billiard instructor. Mechanics would be the hardest to do, but not impossible. John Madden-style markups on table-layouts and interactive Q&A is much easier. If that isn't sellable, my question is answered.
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SWC,
I agree with all of the above. I think there will always be some market for any pool-related product...how big a market is anyone's guess.

Even with high tech camera's on the instructor's side; I'm still afraid that table layouts will be a problem. Most shots must be analyzed from several angles. Even a very small difference in angle or clearance makes a huge difference in the risk level of a straight pool shot. Those kind of decisions to me would be very difficult and/or cumbersome to make via video. Surgery, on the other hand, would seem much easier to convey via video (sorry to disagree; but pool is MUCH more complicated than the typical surgery; JMO but I've seen and performed more than my share of both:) ).

I will bet that there is some way, though, to make such interaction valuable for the student. Good luck.
 
SWC,

It's an interesting idea and I think it would have a lot of benefits. However, the part that perplexes me is how you plan to make this a fraction of the cost of a regular lesson. First, there's your cut, which as a businessman providing a service, you certainly are entitled to.

But on top of that, I would've figured the lessons wouldn't be personal. In other words, it could be a weekly 30 minute program, featuring different aspects of the game. Without the interactive part, you can charge people way less because of the potential volume. If you can get 200 people to watch every week, and charge them each only $10, now you're on to something.

Anyway, good luck.

- Steve
 
Steve Lipsky said:
SWC,

It's an interesting idea and I think it would have a lot of benefits. However, the part that perplexes me is how you plan to make this a fraction of the cost of a regular lesson. First, there's your cut, which as a businessman providing a service, you certainly are entitled to.

But on top of that, I would've figured the lessons wouldn't be personal. In other words, it could be a weekly 30 minute program, featuring different aspects of the game. Without the interactive part, you can charge people way less because of the potential volume. If you can get 200 people to watch every week, and charge them each only $10, now you're on to something.

Anyway, good luck.

- Steve
Click to expand...

The most expensive part is the technology, and I already own it. Technically, you can do 1-on-1 lessons or get 400 people in one room -- which would be more like an internet talk-show, more than lessons. Maybe get some of the Old Schoolin' guys on to talk about whatever while taking questions from the audience.

This can be done very inexpensive.
 
Williebetmore said:
SWC,
I agree with all of the above. I think there will always be some market for any pool-related product...how big a market is anyone's guess.

Even with high tech camera's on the instructor's side; I'm still afraid that table layouts will be a problem. Most shots must be analyzed from several angles. Even a very small difference in angle or clearance makes a huge difference in the risk level of a straight pool shot. Those kind of decisions to me would be very difficult and/or cumbersome to make via video. Surgery, on the other hand, would seem much easier to convey via video (sorry to disagree; but pool is MUCH more complicated than the typical surgery; JMO but I've seen and performed more than my share of both:) ).

I will bet that there is some way, though, to make such interaction valuable for the student. Good luck.
Click to expand...

HAHA... can't argue that, right? In a medical environment - both sides have the proper equipment. If both sides had the proper equipment in the pool scenario - you can perform instructional miracles on the internet. I'm aware, however, no one (client-wise) would have the proper equipment to make it equally beneficial from the student, to the instructor. Instructor to the student would be very well laid out (top-down video, multiple camera angles controlled by the instructor).

Hard to compare the two because one audience has a budget and initial interest, the other audience doesn't (which is why this entire thread is interesting to me).

This thread / question is tough because I also know no one has seen our virtual communications - which makes it hard to give a good opinion on what really is possible. What I'm describing is TOTALLY different than what we did w/ the IPT.

Regardless, I'm not betting 1000 jelly beans on it. :)
 
I think this could be great for certain aspects of the game. As an example: it would be nice to compare the responses of several pro's for a specific Straight Pool break shot that I have trouble with.

At first glance, it may have many limitatins but in any new idea there are sceptics galore.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I totally agree.... no one online can do the same job as someone in person. You're also implying no one can teach pool content online - and that's simply not the case. We're not talking about web-meetings... this wouldn't be "WEBEX".

Like pool players, doctor's can instruct best in-person as well. If there's a doctor in Guatamala that no longer amputates limbs because of what he learned online - someone in the pool world can be helped online as well. Pool isn't surgery, that's for sure. :)

I guess my point is, I'm "guessing".... there are times when money, time, and availability for instructors may prohibit getting an in-person session w/ a world champion or top billiard instructor. Mechanics would be the hardest to do, but not impossible. John Madden-style markups on table-layouts and interactive Q&A is much easier. If that isn't sellable, my question is answered.

If any instructors/pros who post here want to get a peek, PM me.
Click to expand...

Okay, I agree with you but then you're basically saying it's like any other meeting and if that's the case, we no longer have a discussion. If all you need to do is discuss pool with an instructor, then yeah. It can work. If you want mechanical instruction, well a lot is going to depend on how good your camera equipment is. The instructor is going to be limited to what you show him, he's going to lack the ability to move around at whim and he's not going to have a 3D perspective. Those are some serious handicaps.
 
I have the equipment as described and the interest and skills to set up for the described scenario. I would probably give it a try if the price seemed reasonable. Right now $300.0 for semi-personal instruction for a day is not bad. Of course there would be added money for travel, hotel etc so I would want to know more about the costs / trade offs. I am not particularly cheap but also don’t throw money around. So I might give it a try especially if the instructor had special talents that I appreciated and thought might be worth while.

After one or two lessons and depending on what I wanted to learn, I would have to re-think the situation as a trade-off for travel, cost, and expense. Some instructors are simply too far away from my residence to make it worthwhile spending the effort.

So, all in all, my answer is a definite maybe with an inclination to give it a try. Don’t know if you know about Ohio State’s tele-medicine for the prisons. It has been active for years and is quite good, or so I am told.
 
There are two components to lessons. Execution and knowledge. Most of us normal people have problems with execution to one degree or another. Knowledge is knowing what to do and when. Knowledge can be shared by books, dvds, this forum and many other media including your idea. Improvement with execution would be more difficult by internet and would be more like a good dvd, perhaps a little better. Certainly no where near, same planet even, as person instruction. If you focused on knowledge, you may have something.

Thats how I would sell it, primarily because I find many posters here, and players in general, want to get the knowledge and do not want to start lessons with lessons on execution (fundamentals). Everyone is seeking that secret information that will make your game jump yards w/o doing reptitious drills.

Good luck, I would pay a reasonable fee, $25.00 an hour, for those advanced secrets. Guess I'm like everyone else.

Mike
 
Speaking as an instructor, I would be somewhat reluctant to offer on-line lessons. Part of teaching is making sure the student is learning. When I am working with a student, I observe a lot of subtle things that may not come through on video. Eye patterns would be very difficult to observe on camera. Angles are much more difficult to see. How many times have you watched pool on tv, heard the commentators question if a ball has a clean path to the pocket, only to see the player drop down and shoot it? You have to be at the table to see what is actually happening. Even video analysis would present many problems. Camera angles need to be set at the correct position to see what is actually happening. The ability to pause and rewind video is necessary to point out some specific points. What angle were your knuckles in relation to the cue when you moved through different phases of your stroke?
Overall, I think the quality of instruction would be severly limited, regardless of the quality of the equipment being used. I believe the student would end up getting short-changed. Nothing I can see could ever be as good as having the instructor and student in the same place at the same time.
JMHO
Steve
 
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