I want the ref to be like a casino dealer. Lay all the balls out, swish them around and say good luck players.
WPA vs WNT break format
- Thread starter skor
- Start date
placement pool
Any idea how many six packs were run in the recently contested World 9ball Championships in Jeddah? The answer is, in fact, zero. In fact, there was just one five pack and just one four pack. If you think that racks are being strung regularly in WNT events you are not watching closely enough.
As somebody who was always around the tournament scene and had regular interactions with countless fans of the game, I am not speculating about how most fans felt about the soft break when it emerged in the early 2000s.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Every table at China open and yuan8 open has a camera. How hard is it to use the mic on that camera to determine a break speed? Not too difficult I imagine. I think, from the box, and with a speedometer would be cool. The graphic display and discussion of mph is something that would entertain people who don’t play the game. Just like my friend likes watching people get hit with 100mph cricket balls, but has no interest in the sport lol
Tbh, a speedometer and display of speed is a point of interest whatever the break format. It’s not something that would be too costly or extreme to include (not in China from my perspective anyway)
Tbh, a speedometer and display of speed is a point of interest whatever the break format. It’s not something that would be too costly or extreme to include (not in China from my perspective anyway)
The placement of the cue ball is an issue. It might be an inch or two farther. That can give a 4% variation in measured speed if a single distance is used. Not a huge problem, and most players will probably not be that close to the limit.
That depends on the field. For a WNT event, maybe 18. If it were implemented, the speed on a bunch of break shots should be observed.
In some competitions, the three point rule is relaxed by using a lower line.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I guess the brain trust will come together and determine.
??????????
Yes, in theory, but maybe not in practice.
In the end, and it is obviously regrettable, pool refs enforce the rules they like and not the others. That's why the "wax on wax off" issue at the World 9ball came up in the first place. While WPA was correct to point out, after the fact, that doctoring the cue ball has been outside the letter of the law for many years, the truth is that the rule has never been enforced by the officials who are fully accountable to WPA.
Until pool officials choose to enforce all the rules that are on the books, we will have a problem with issues like these. In short, adding the rule that officials must oversee break speed will have no impact at all unless tournament officials choose to enforce such a rule.
Agree and even when the break rules on the WNT were relaxed, 6 was the most I’ve seen on the bigger events. And then I think there might have been a 7 pack at the international open one year.
Big packages probably happen less often than 147s in snooker, and full set run outs are only a little more common than 155s (in practice). When one does get caught on video, though, it’s frustrating to see how many people act like it’s pool’s dirty secret and something that happens all the time. Especially now, with the break rules making even 4s and 5s a rarity.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Tie the speedo into the camera, and have it projected on the screen that shows the score of the match, and also on the viewers stream as a graphic display. Again, this is something I think that could be easily done here In China, where a lot of halls are subscribed to this camera/app service.
Takes it out of referee hands altogether.
In my prime yrs 91-91.... 2 & 3's then a good safety held up all day long.... 5's were not that common in those Camel yrs/PCA/Pro Tour Mackey yrs.
Small pkgs and a hook often got you 4-5 games ahead in a race to 11....a comfortable start.
Most all top players never made more than two mistakes per set, the norm with 4.5 pockets.
If you made 3 unforced errors against the likes of Buddy Hall, you lost.
bm
I’m only speaking as a fan being entertained by the upper echelon of elite professional 9-ball.
I emphatically prefer the WNT rules. I want matches with drama. I want high caliber play. Tension that anything can happen.
My #1 pet peeve is watching matches where players have too much control over the break. I don’t want to see the combination of a guaranteed ball down (like the wing ball), control where the lowest ball will be (like the 1 ball), and control where the cueball will be where the players are manifesting the same opening shot after every break for a very cookie cutter layout and runout.
Keep in mind that the Corey Deuel soft break era was the worst of that. But that’s also some 20 years ago and had been addressed. But the game has evolved and players have developed chased that evolution with techniques to still assert too much control.
I assumed at the China Open with no break box they’d make wing ball, control the 1B and control the CB. Surprisingly they are making the wing but they’re also trying to make the 1B. So there’s no guarantee they’ll have a cookie cutter look at the 2B. So on paper I don’t mind this format. But breaking from the rail does mean they don’t have to set the CB free. They can keep it in a central zone quite easily with a good chance for a look at the 2B. The runouts are not cookie cutter but they are generous.
WNT with a tighter break box forces the players to let the CB run a bit more. Don’t get me wrong, they’re starting to master that too. And depending where the 2B is racked some are recreating cookie cutter layouts. But it’s not all that generous for runouts. There’s just enough randomness and more variables to control. You get streaks of packages and those are big moments. But you also get a lot more pushes, jumps, kicks, and safes off the break. You see more of a tactical moving game. You see more pool skills on display. And I’m for it.
Because the runouts aren’t generous, I like seeing winner breaks because big moments and momentum shifts happen. Not because of an easy format but because the players are working a little harder to get it. The finals of the last few WPC, US Open and other WNT Opens has have produced those swings and moments. Pass me the popcorn.
But for me alternate break only keeps tension if players are both holding serve or both giving chances. When runouts are just a tad more generous (like China Open) sometimes it feels like even a small lead becomes insurmountable if things are going a bit too easy. You lose some tension and entertainment.
I emphatically prefer the WNT rules. I want matches with drama. I want high caliber play. Tension that anything can happen.
My #1 pet peeve is watching matches where players have too much control over the break. I don’t want to see the combination of a guaranteed ball down (like the wing ball), control where the lowest ball will be (like the 1 ball), and control where the cueball will be where the players are manifesting the same opening shot after every break for a very cookie cutter layout and runout.
Keep in mind that the Corey Deuel soft break era was the worst of that. But that’s also some 20 years ago and had been addressed. But the game has evolved and players have developed chased that evolution with techniques to still assert too much control.
I assumed at the China Open with no break box they’d make wing ball, control the 1B and control the CB. Surprisingly they are making the wing but they’re also trying to make the 1B. So there’s no guarantee they’ll have a cookie cutter look at the 2B. So on paper I don’t mind this format. But breaking from the rail does mean they don’t have to set the CB free. They can keep it in a central zone quite easily with a good chance for a look at the 2B. The runouts are not cookie cutter but they are generous.
WNT with a tighter break box forces the players to let the CB run a bit more. Don’t get me wrong, they’re starting to master that too. And depending where the 2B is racked some are recreating cookie cutter layouts. But it’s not all that generous for runouts. There’s just enough randomness and more variables to control. You get streaks of packages and those are big moments. But you also get a lot more pushes, jumps, kicks, and safes off the break. You see more of a tactical moving game. You see more pool skills on display. And I’m for it.
Because the runouts aren’t generous, I like seeing winner breaks because big moments and momentum shifts happen. Not because of an easy format but because the players are working a little harder to get it. The finals of the last few WPC, US Open and other WNT Opens has have produced those swings and moments. Pass me the popcorn.
But for me alternate break only keeps tension if players are both holding serve or both giving chances. When runouts are just a tad more generous (like China Open) sometimes it feels like even a small lead becomes insurmountable if things are going a bit too easy. You lose some tension and entertainment.
Inclined to agree. Only an automated method of surveillance will do here. Still, a method must be devised by which tournament officials are advised of break speed infractions, so they are in a position to take action as necessary.
Well said. The pool offered by the WNT majors is the most entertaining in the game for the very reasons you have cited.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
These are precisely some of the arguments I have for making all breaks from the head spot. This would go a long way to eliminate many if not all the likelihood of regularly making the one in the side and would ensure that all breaks would by nature be a hard break which is what everyone wants to see. I realize I'm a lone wolf on this one and it will never happen, give it some thought. Alternate breaks would also be a welcome idea!
Nice post Matt....
Yep, diggin' in'.... givin' it your best and climbing back ''into the game'' and winning.
It's a feeling that won't happen allot till ones game matures.
In your earlier yrs, luck created some wins, and your taste for MORE.
You Knew you had to improve.
But when time/effort/practice are involved, and your game gels, you realize/see your opponents skills quickly and ''handle it''.
When you starting to play better and better in your match, these words come to mind.
Two of thee below expressions were often yelled out from the railbirds.
Swing it !!!!
Rail will yell out! Tables leakin'!!!!
1 Smootin' out
2 Swing it'
3 Dabbin' it
4 Tables leaking
5 Dead Stroke
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