WPA, WADA, WCBS, and BCA, an Alphabet Soup of Pool Organizations

[JAM]

Start with the total prize fund amount and deduct the entry fee per player. The difference is added money. As to the source, unfortunately, the details of how much by whom isn't always public.

If you're not happy with the reply you got, then write back and let him know.

Thank you for the reply. Would you be able to please share a pool event with the high-prize fund so I can check it out? Thanks in advance for your effort.

I'm not going to ask for a better reply from the North American rep. I think the entire bureaucracy of the WPA and its affiliates should be more transparent. Nobody knows what's going on in the pool public, and maybe they like it that way. I don't understand why the public has to ask the questions. The WPA should be more forthcoming, and so should the Polish entity that is in charge of the monies coming in for the anti-doping fund as well as being the one to administer the tests to the pool players. How convenient!

If they're a nonprofit, there should be some record of where the money goes.

 

[JAM]

All good questions. Maybe you can get Shane at the WPA to come here and answer questions.

My bet is the money goes to bribing IOC officials and kickbacks to government leaders that support pool. I think that's where all the FIFA money goes at least.

I will be happy to make it to 2036 as well, but doubt we will even have the Olympics then.

Did you watch "Billions" on, I think, HBO? They were trying to get the Olympic Games in NYC, and there was a lot of hanky panky going on behind the scenes.

 

[MattPoland]

Billy’s offense occurred at the Vegas Diamond Open back in Sept 2021. They told him he couldn’t play until WADA determined his punishment. 6 months later WPA couldn’t get WADA to rule on it. So they told him he could play. Then WPA oddly enough gets POLADA to rule on it for them (not WADA? not USADA?). Billy already sat out over half a year based on them dragging their feet bureaucratically. They couldn’t give lenience to his time already served?!? Instead they add a few more months on top. Compare that to a few years ago when Mario He got a banned substances suspension and everything was expeditious. As far as I’m concerned, Billy was denied due process through this and that’s a major shame from WPA. If they want to be the official governing body of pool then they need to live up to it. Even if some of this is on WADA, POLADA or the pandemic… WPA needs to own it.

He missed out on the 2021 US Intl Open, 2021 Mosconi Cup, all the 2022 Predator Pro Tour stops (AZ, WI, NV, MI) based on the info they provided him. It wasn’t until March that they started letting him play again (UK Open, WPC, DCC, etc). So when the news release says the European Open and the Canadian Open are the only events he’ll miss, that’s a massive understatement.

If this is how they’ll operate, I’d support burning it all down just to make a point that it’s unacceptable. All babies can go with the bath water.

 

[kling&allen]

Billy’s offense occurred at the Vegas Diamond Open back in Sept 2021. They told him he couldn’t play until WADA determined his punishment. 6 months later WPA couldn’t get WADA to rule on it. So they told him he could play. Then WPA oddly enough gets POLADA to rule on it for them (not WADA? not USADA?). Billy already sat out over half a year based on them dragging their feet bureaucratically. They couldn’t give lenience to his time already served?!? Instead they add a few more months on top. Compare that to a few years ago when Mario He got a banned substances suspension and everything was expeditious. As far as I’m concerned, Billy was denied due process through this and that’s a major shame from WPA. If they want to be the official governing body of pool then they need to live up to it. Even if some of this is on WADA, POLADA or the pandemic… WPA needs to own it.

He missed out on the 2021 US Intl Open, 2021 Mosconi Cup, all the 2022 Predator Pro Tour stops (AZ, WI, NV, MI) based on the info they provided him. It wasn’t until March that they started letting him play again (UK Open, WPC, DCC, etc). So when the news release says the European Open and the Canadian Open are the only events he’ll miss, that’s a massive understatement.

If this is how they’ll operate, I’d support burning it all down just to make a point that it’s unacceptable. All babies can go with the bath water.

Well said. Most sports (tennis is a good example) have a player's bill of rights to address all of these doping topics and prevent this nonsense.

 

[FranCrimi]

Thank you for the reply. Would you be able to please share a pool event with the high-prize fund so I can check it out? Thanks in advance for your effort.

I'm not going to ask for a better reply from the North American rep. I think the entire bureaucracy of the WPA and its affiliates should be more transparent. Nobody knows what's going on in the pool public, and maybe they like it that way. I don't understand why the public has to ask the questions. The WPA should be more forthcoming, and so should the Polish entity that is in charge of the monies coming in for the anti-doping fund as well as being the one to administer the tests to the pool players. How convenient!

If they're a nonprofit, there should be some record of where the money goes.

No sorry. I'm really not into doing that kind of research right now. I'm sure you'll be able to find it if you look. There were several when I was on the WPA Board 10 years ago. Good luck! P.S. --- Remember, I'm not a liar.

 

[justnum]

Taking a stroll on the WCBS website, I wanted to read the articles on the right-hand side: https://www.wcbs.sport/wcbs-establishes-the-wcbs-solidarity-anti-doping-fund/

Every single one of the links goes to a website with Asian writing characters on the tab: https://www.tt003.xyz/index.html

Does anybody know what this is?

View attachment 647800

Its a webhost error redirect message. It is a deadlink, this is the default message on the web server their content is hosted on.

I also encountered it from a google search result.

WCBS technical staff should be informed.

 

[JAM]

No sorry. I'm really not into doing that kind of research right now. I'm sure you'll be able to find it if you look. There were several when I was on the WPA Board 10 years ago. Good luck! P.S. --- Remember, I'm not a liar.

Thanks for the reply. I did try to research, but I came up empty. Nobody is calling anyone a liar. Not something I'd ever do to anyone.

The only people who need "good luck" are the American professional pool players and the victims of the WPA and its "affiliates," certainly not me.

 

[kling&allen]

Thanks for the reply. I did try to research, but I came up empty. Nobody is calling anyone a liar. Not something I'd ever do to anyone.

The only people who need "good luck" are the American professional pool players and the victims of the WPA and its "affiliates," certainly not me.

I don't know any details of any of these events, and certainly don't support WPA nonsense, but I think these type of tournaments are what Fran was referring to:

KUWAIT OPEN 9-BALL CHAMPIONSHIP DRAWS THE WORLD’S BEST - WPA Pool

By Ted Lerner WPA Press Officer (Kuwait City)--Welcome to the new frontier of pool. The State of Kuwait is all set to host a brand new event on the pool calendar, the Kuwait 9-ball Open, an event that is making an auspicious start by immediately jumping to the top of the tournament heap as the […]

wpapool.com

 

[telinoz]

The WCBS would be a lot stronger and larger by now if out of the 3 cuesports, Snooker was represented by the WPBSA and NOT the IBSF.

If you know the difference between the WPBSA and the IBSF, this is obvious.

Out of the WPA, UMB and WPBSA go and see which is the most successful globally.
Compare sponsorship, prize payouts.
Add Matchroom events to WPA payouts as well, still won't touch WPBSA...

If you know this history, you know why the IBSF is in instead...

 

[sjm]

They told him he couldn’t play until WADA determined his punishment. 6 months later WPA couldn’t get WADA to rule on it.

This is disgraceful. If WADA needs more than six months to rule on something as simple as this, WPA should consider cutting ties with them and removing all WADA clauses from the WPA player contract. This bureaucratic nonsense is completely unfair to a player awaiting judgment. I'm in favor of drug testing, but if it can't be carried out in a way that doesn't compromise fairness, who needs it?

 

[buckshotshoey]

This is disgraceful. If WADA needs more than six months to rule on something as simple as this, WPA should consider cutting ties with them and removing all WADA clauses from the WPA player contract. This bureaucratic nonsense is completely unfair to a player awaiting judgment. I'm in favor of drug testing, but if can't be carried out in a way that doesn't compromise fairness, who needs it?

I agree, but there is more at work here then just the WCBS....not sure the WADA is instrumental in the delay.

". It was stated that between the pandemic, the WCBS committee, and Billy’s attorney, the hearing kept getting pushed back".

It could be Thorpe's lawyer delaying?

 

[MattPoland]

I agree, but there is more at work here then just the WCBS....not sure the WADA is instrumental in the delay.

". It was stated that between the pandemic, the WCBS committee, and Billy’s attorney, the hearing kept getting pushed back".

It could be Thorpe's lawyer delaying?

Hard to imagine Billy and his lawyer were trying to drag it out intentionally. My money is our governing bodies are responsible for 95% of the delay and Billy’s lawyer maybe 5%. But I am speculating.

The interview with WPA made it sound d like WADA played a large role in the delay.

 

[sjm]

I agree, but there is more at work here then just the WCBS....not sure the WADA is instrumental in the delay.

". It was stated that between the pandemic, the WCBS committee, and Billy’s attorney, the hearing kept getting pushed back".

It could be Thorpe's lawyer delaying?

Thanks for the additional info. I may have misjudged this situation, but it has the feel of a bureaucratic backlog.

 

[gerryf]

Hard to imagine Billy and his lawyer were trying to drag it out intentionally. My money is our governing bodies are responsible for 95% of the delay and Billy’s lawyer maybe 5%. But I am speculating.

The interview with WPA made it sound d like WADA played a large role in the delay.

Billy and his lawyer may have been disputing the drug test, which all on it's own would slow things up. There isn't enough reliable information to know what happened for real.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The WCBS would be a lot stronger and larger by now if out of the 3 cuesports, Snooker was represented by the WPBSA and NOT the IBSF.

If you know the difference between the WPBSA and the IBSF, this is obvious.

...

The problem is that the WPBSA is not a world-wide organization. It is not formed from the governing bodies in the individual countries. It is a pro tour. Its membership -- if the players are the members of the WPBSA -- is dominated by three or four countries. The members of the WPBSA do not organize national and continental championships in snooker. The IBSF and its members do.

It is more or less the difference between the ITF and the ATP at tennis. I think the ATP would be the wrong organization for Olympic membership.

At one time the WPBSA and the IBSF were cooperating and both involved in the WCBS. I'm not sure of exactly what caused the riff, but it is not good for snooker or cue sports.

 

[Bob Jewett]

There is a problem with the domain name handling of the WCBS. If you go through a google search on "wcbs billiards sport" you are directed to the bizarre Chinese site. Something is broken either in the google info or in how internet addresses are handled for that site.

Try this instead: https://www.wcbs.sport/

Edit: the people at the WCBS are aware of the problem and are looking into it.

 

[telinoz]

The problem is that the WPBSA is not a world-wide organization. It is not formed from the governing bodies in the individual countries. It is a pro tour. Its membership -- if the players are the members of the WPBSA -- is dominated by three or four countries. The members of the WPBSA do not organize national and continental championships in snooker. The IBSF and its members do.

It is more or less the difference between the ITF and the ATP at tennis. I think the ATP would be the wrong organization for Olympic membership.

At one time the WPBSA and the IBSF were cooperating and both involved in the WCBS. I'm not sure of exactly what caused the riff, but it is not good for snooker or cue sports.

The WSF is under the WPBSA, that does have countries everywhere.

About WSF | WSF | Snooker

In October 2017 the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA) announced its involvement in a new era of sports governance for snooker and billiards [...]

worldsnookerfederation.org

With a path to the professional level as well.
Meant to be a direct alternative to the IBSF, with more to offer.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The WSF is under the WPBSA, that does have countries everywhere.

About WSF | WSF | Snooker

In October 2017 the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA) announced its involvement in a new era of sports governance for snooker and billiards [...]

worldsnookerfederation.org

With a path to the professional level as well.
Meant to be a direct alternative to the IBSF, with more to offer.

Well, yes, but, ....

How many national federations belong to the WSF? How many belong to the IBSF? I could not find a list for the WSF. I could find a list for the IBSF. It appears the two organizations are trying to perform the same function, more or less. The IBSF has been running World Championships open to qualifiers from all member countries. The have been doing that for a long time. Does the WSF do something similar?

 

[MattPoland]

Billy and his lawyer may have been disputing the drug test, which all on it's own would slow things up. There isn't enough reliable information to know what happened for real.

There’s some reliable information. Watch this video for the 5 minute segment from the 1:00:50 mark.

Ishaun Singh from the WPA shares that the issue is WCBS has to do 100 drug tests a year split between pool, snooker and carom. POLADA is contracted to do it for them. WPA arranges the drug tests, POLADA processes the results and handles disciplinary hearings. He said Billy was handled inefficiently because POLADA has a backlog and other sports were given priority. They said “they raised the issue” at each board meeting but nothing was coming of it. My take on that is the WPA is a bunch of Casper Milquetoasts unwilling to show some backbone on behalf of their players and get results.

 

[telinoz]

Well, yes, but, ....

How many national federations belong to the WSF? How many belong to the IBSF? I could not find a list for the WSF. I could find a list for the IBSF. It appears the two organizations are trying to perform the same function, more or less. The IBSF has been running World Championships open to qualifiers from all member countries. The have been doing that for a long time. Does the WSF do something similar?

44 countries mentioned in last tournament:

Record Entry For WSF Championships - World Snooker

The upcoming World Snooker Federation Championships will be one of the largest international snooker competitions staged in recent history with 319 individual players from 44 different countries set to compete for places on the World Snooker Tour. WSF Junior Championship – Entry List WSF Open...

wst.tv

The WSF is still young, but it has much bigger connections.
The IBSF in my opinion has had its chances.
This is an old guard issue, bad blood between board members and goes back to the days of when the current WPA President was involved in Snooker. It is just a matter of time now before these problems are gone.
Nobody lives forever.