WPBA Pacific Coast Classic - October 1st - 5th, 2008

[Roy Steffensen]

No.

There is no way a tomato-can is going to win the tournament.

They might luck themselves to victory in 1 or 2 matches, but its not going to last in the long run, ESPECIALLY with the top player in the WPBA being so far above the rest.

The only way your going to have a clearly lesser player snapping the whole thing off is if there is collusion.

She helped fill in the empty spots and rounded out the prize money for the elites of the tour.

By that logic (she helped fill the spots and rounded out price money with no chance of winning = less or no entryfee) then the bottom half of the ranking should pay less in entryfee, if any, because they have no shot at the title...

Why not just let Allison, Kelly, Karen, Xiaoting, Jasmin (without the e) and a handful of others pay and let the rest compete for free?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

By that logic (she helped fill the spots and rounded out price money with no chance of winning = less or no entryfee) then the bottom half of the ranking should pay less in entryfee, if any, because they have no shot at the title...

Why not just let Allison, Kelly, Karen, Xiaoting, Jasmin (without the e) and a handful of others pay and let the rest compete for free?

????????
They have to jack up the prize money of course.
You can't have the top girls making $500 profit for a tournament that they win. The tour would collapse if that happened.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

????????
They have to jack up the prize money of course.
You can't have the top girls making $500 profit for a tournament that they win. The tour would collapse if that happened.

I think I am confused, as usual.

When you started your "tomato-can" post with No, I thought you meant no as in "No, she shouldn't pay the entryfee", since that was the main message in my post.

I believe now that you wrote No meaning that "no way will she be able to win".

I don't blame me for getting confused, though

My point was that ALL players need to pay, no matter how good or bad they are. That seems to be your point too, so why do we keep posting?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

My point was that ALL players need to pay, no matter how good or bad they are. That seems to be your point too, so why do we keep posting?

To bash the tomato cans that have no purpose for being in the friggin tournament.

Tomato cans should go the way of the dodo bird.

 

[sjm]

Let's clear up a couple of things in this thread:

1) A cinderella can win a WPBA event.

Unseeded winners are rare, and players like Ga Young Kim (2004 US Open), Kelly Fisher (2005 San Diego Classic), and Jasmin Ouschan (2006 BCA Open), though unseeded, don't really count as cinderellas as they were unseeded due to the fact that they were relatively new on tour, not due to the lack of a competitive pedigree.

On the other hand, Kelly Oyama, winner of WPBA Minnesota in 1996, was a cinderella in the mst literal sense of the word. Kelly is surely the biggest longshot to ever win a WPBA event.

2) A player that is not a touring pro does not have to have won a qualifier to get into a WPBA event. Over the years, I've seen players get into events in each of the following ways:

a) through an invitation earned due to points accumulated in other WPBA events
b) due to success in women's junior or collegiate championships
c) due to winning a regional tour points race
d) due to being the highest finishing non-pro in a qualifier
e) next highest finisher when the lady that won the qualifier spot is unavailable
f) sponsor's invitation (venue sponsors sometimes get one of these)
g) as a last second replacement

Last second replacements are sometimes necessary. I recall that the 2002 WPBA Nationals in Florida took place during a major snow storm that hit much of the east coast and a few players had their flights canceled and never got there.

Last second replacement spots typically go to either fairly local players or to semi-pros that happen to be in attendance. These spots are very valuable, as they can afford a capable player valuable expereince, but, more importantly, a chance to earn additional WPBA event invitations through Method A above.

 

[sunnyday]

To bash the tomato cans that have no purpose for being in the friggin tournament.

Tomato cans should go the way of the dodo bird.

Every champion started from the bottom. It would be nice to encourage new players instead of ridiculing them. If I remember correctly, YuRam Cha wasn't received with too much warmth in the beginning either.

S.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Was K.O.'s win PRE Fisher dominance?

I am talking about modern day WPBA.

When is the last Cinderella in the past say 10 or 12 years?

 

[cuechick]

Was K.O.'s win PRE Fisher dominance?

I am talking about modern day WPBA.

When is the last Cinderella in the past say 10 or 12 years?

Iris and YuRam both had Cinderella finishes in this years US Open. Pam Treadway (now with a new married name, I can not recall) hit the TV rounds, while unseeded and pregnant.

 

[sjm]

Was K.O.'s win PRE Fisher dominance?

I am talking about modern day WPBA.

When is the last Cinderella in the past say 10 or 12 years?

Kelly Oyama's win came in a year in which Allison Fisher won six WPBA events, but since Kelly Oyama's win, I wouldn't suggest any WPBA event winner has written a cinderella story. If, however, you include all WPA women's events, there is no question that Julie Kelly's win at the 2000 WPA World Nine Ball Championships in Quebec would qualify as a cinderella story.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Every champion started from the bottom. It would be nice to encourage new players instead of ridiculing them. If I remember correctly, YuRam Cha wasn't received with too much warmth in the beginning either.

S.

People are going to get all upset when someone says that certain players are far superior to the others talent wise, but it's the truth.

Having said that, you have the women that are playing for and are clearly capable of attaining the win, and then you have the rest who are playing to finish with as much profit as they can, hoping for the lucky draw so they can last as long as they possibly can.

And that's not just for the women. It's for every tournament, whether it be a mens event or a womens event.

You have the top shelf talent, and then the filler.

If someone doesn't like the caste system that is in place, it should just be another motivating factor for them to up their game.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Kelly Oyama's win came in a year in which Allison Fisher won six WPBA events, but since Kelly Oyama's win, I wouldn't call any WPBA event winner to have written a cinderella story. If, however, you include all WPA women's events, there is no question that Julie Kelly's win at the 2000 WPA World Nine Ball Championships in Quebec would qualify as a cnderella story.

I knew someone was going to bring this up.

Collusion.

Someone lucked their way to the finals, and then someone dumped to them/had the worst day of their lives.
Based on some of the peoples reports of the shots and sell outs that were happening from people that were actually there, it is pretty clear to me.

Also, someone's relationship with another makes it impossible to say that it didn't happen.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Iris and YuRam both had Cinderella finishes in this years US Open. Pam Treadway (now with a new married name, I can not recall) hit the TV rounds, while unseeded and pregnant.

Pam is not a Cindarella. I've known Pam long enough to know that she is a stone cold killer, and a very talented player.

FAR removed from the up and coming aspiring player. She moved past that rank a long time ago.

If Pam weren't married and didn't have any restraints on her ability to travel around and play, she would have continued to improve in her performances as time went on.

She has a clearly proven track record in regional events, where i would say that some aspiring players who get invites, might NEVER win or dominate a regional area like Pam did.

 

[maldito]

Oh well, I still got one horse still in the race! Go Line Kjorsvik!!!

That is more like it considering who you picked to win -cause you may just get banned and I ain't talkin about being banned from this Az forum.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Line Kjorsvik just won 9-7 against Dawn Hopkins, and is once again in the last 16.

Iris Ranola and Jeanette Lee also made it to the last 16 right now, with wins over Vivian Villareal and Ewa Laurance.

 

[Pjadedd]

I think the last real Cinderella story wasn't a win, but Amy Paul made the semis, I believe, as a completely unranked player back in 1997/1998. Then, she all but disappeared. I agree that it may be hard for a virtual unknown (on the pro level) to win, but it's certainly not out of the question. As pointed out, Iris and Yu Ram both made great runs as virtual unknowns on the WPBA (although, I've come to learn no one is an unknown here because everyone seems to know someone).


PJ

 

[sjm]

I think the last real Cinderella story wasn't a win, but Amy Paul made the semis, I believe, as a completely unranked player back in 1997/1998. Then, she all but disappeared. I agree that it may be hard for a virtual unknown (on the pro level) to win, but it's certainly not out of the question. As pointed out, Iris and Yu Ram both made great runs as virtual unknowns on the WPBA (although, I've come to learn no one is an unknown here because everyone seems to know someone).


PJ

Wow, very nice pickup. I had completely forgotten about Amy Paul. To my recollection, Amy Paul was not even ranked in the top thrity two when she made it all the way to the televised semifinals at the 1998 WPBA San Diego event. If memory serves, Amy was a Canadian who played ice hockey competitively.

 

[vagabond]

Wow, very nice pickup. I had completely forgotten about Amy Paul. To my recollection, Amy Paul was not even ranked in the top thrity two when she made it all the way to the televised semifinals at the 1998 WPBA San Diego event. If memory serves, Amy was a Canadian who played ice hockey competitively.

Amy paul was able to play in WPBA event thru qualifiers.she was good friend of Paul Brienza.I do not know whether paul gave any pool lessons to her or not.In that tournament in sandiego one of my favorite players Aileen Pippen narrowly missed the TV matches.

 

[sjm]

Amy paul was able to play in WPBA event thru qualifiers.she was good friend of Paul Brienza.I do not know whether paul gave any pool lessons to her or not.In that tournament in sandiego one of my favorite players Aileen Pippen narrowly missed the TV matches.

Yup, the very attractive, and always elegantly dressed, Aileen was a fine player back in the day. I think that just a few months after the disappointment at San Diego she rebounded by reaching the semifinals of the 1998 BCA Open in Las Vegas. Later serving as WPBA president, Aileen was alaways a credit to women's pro pool.

 

[sjm]

I knew someone was going to bring this up.

Collusion.

Someone lucked their way to the finals, and then someone dumped to them/had the worst day of their lives.
Based on some of the peoples reports of the shots and sell outs that were happening from people that were actually there, it is pretty clear to me.

Also, someone's relationship with another makes it impossible to say that it didn't happen.

Well, I'm going to say it didn't happen. I regularly travel in women's professional pool circles and I have never heard these allegations before.

The 2000 season was Karen Corr's first full year on the WPBA tour, and a world championship would have meant everything to her. There is no way you'll get me to believe that there was a dump here. I'm sure that Karen, who remains today without a world championship on her resume, understood that her shot in the finals could be a once-in-a-lifetime chance. Fatigue may have been a factor in the finals, though, as I heard from somebody who attended that Karen nearly fell asleep during the awards ceremony. Still, we'll never know.

I'll add that you can't luck your way to the finals when the last six players in the event includes multiple world champions Hsin Mei Liu and Loree Jon Jones, former #1 ranked Jeanette Lee, and Karen Corr. To outlast such players, you need to play well.

I'll add that Julie backed it up in the couple of years that followed. Within two and a half years of her win at the WPBA world championship, her WPBA ranking rose to #3. It's true that she hasn't fared well on tour in more recent seasons, but she had her special moments, including winning the WPBA Canadian classic and a second place finish at WPBA Florida.

Let's give Julie Kelly her due.

 

[maldito]

Amy paul was able to play in WPBA event thru qualifiers.she was good friend of Paul Brienza.I do not know whether paul gave any pool lessons to her or not.

There was a write up about Amy Paul in one of the Billiard publications, (Billiards Digest , Pool and Billiard Magazine) it was in the late 90's and it stated she was looking for a sponser or had one lined up and the deal fell thru.