WPC Debate on the Soft Break

I don't understand how the wing ball can go in every time on that table. You would have to have a perfect rack every time and hit it the right speed. I try this at home and can maybe make the wing ball 50% of the time.

Does anybody know the pocket size? They don't look huge - maybe 4.5 inches.

Chris
 
tgspool said:
pros should be able to break hard and have control of the cue ball. Not this easy soft break stuff.
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No, pros should be able to determine the most suited breaking speed depending on the condition. If it happens to be a soft break, so be it.

I can't figure out why many people are calling soft break a lame break. That is very misleading. If the condition calls for a soft break then it's the best break you got and probably should use.
 
I posted the following in the other thread that Hail Mary Shot started, but I highly doubt the WPC would go to that extent to tinker with the rules of 9-ball.

*****

At the highest competition levels of 9-ball (which is the WPC), the winner is usually the one who breaks better, not necessarily the one who runs out the table better. (If it were the latter, then you'd think Efren would have won more than one WPC 9-ball title by now.)

10-ball is a much better gauge of runout ability, but I feel that the winner is still largely determined by the break (again, at the highest levels of competition). Sure there is no definite wing-ball in 10-ball, but you still need great shape on the next lowest ball following the break to keep control of the table, and a lot of that is just plain luck. Not to mention the luck of actually pocketing a ball on the break.

For rotation games (9-ball, 10-ball, etc.), the winner should be decided purely on runout ability and safety play, and the break should hardly be a factor at all.

Therefore, I propose that we eliminate the majority of the luck that is associated with the break. Not only does the breaker NOT have to pocket a ball on the break to keep control of the table, the player doesn't even have to pocket the lowest numbered ball immediately after the break shot. Thus, the pushout rule goes away.

For example, after the balls are broken, the breaker is allowed to pocket the 7 to play shape on the 1. If the first to be pocketed is the 9 ball, then it immediately gets spotted for the next shot. If the player doesn't pocket a ball when not hitting the lowest numbered ball first, it would be considered a foul and the incoming player gets BIH.

Since running the table would be significantly easier, alternating breaks should be used. Running out the table after your break would be similar to "holding serve" in tennis. Since the games would be much faster, you can also have longer races, not to mention it would be much more entertaining...
 
I hear you crosseyedjoe, but I swear my mother and I could run 10 racks over there with her breaking. Have you seen the matches?

And like I said its also how the resy of the rack is played due to small area pool and perfect position of the 1-ball. I dont blame the players, I would also break softly should I play there.
 
tgspool said:
pros should be able to break hard and have control of the cue ball. Not this easy soft break stuff.
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Couldn't agree more tgspool, Why have a break cue in your bag if all thats going to be used is a weak ass soft break it dosen't make sense.

Also I have tried the soft break on well conditioned and groomed tables and I can honestly say that I have more control over a full power break than the soft break because I lose the cb down table more often.
 
TATE said:
I don't understand how the wing ball can go in every time on that table. You would have to have a perfect rack every time and hit it the right speed. I try this at home and can maybe make the wing ball 50% of the time.

Does anybody know the pocket size? They don't look huge - maybe 4.5 inches.

Chris
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They use a template to "tap" the balls on the cloath giving a perfect rack every time. They introduced this method to spped up the time it takes to rack and give a easy time to the refs. :)
 
Fixer said:
I hear you crosseyedjoe, but I swear my mother and I could run 10 racks over there with her breaking. Have you seen the matches?

And like I said its also how the resy of the rack is played due to small area pool and perfect position of the 1-ball. I dont blame the players, I would also break softly should I play there.
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Good for you, but going back to the point I'm making. Why would you switch to a hard break if a soft break is what is needed?
 
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crosseyedjoe said:
Good for you, but going back to point I'm making. Why would you switch to a hard break if a soft break is what is needed?
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My thought is, and stick with me here: If they played 10-ball instead of nine, a soft break would never be needed. Then we could all watch something a lot less boring than the soft break. I get it, the soft break works for nineball, that's why it sucks.

play ten ball. how many pro's, etc are going to have to agree before we stop playing nineball? the equipment has made 9-ball obsolete.

-s
 
Hmmm, I can't help you with your personal preference of what is exciting, but I can tell you that I appreciate a tactical choice that makes sense.
 
steev said:
My thought is, and stick with me here: If they played 10-ball instead of nine, a soft break would never be needed. Then we could all watch something a lot less boring than the soft break. I get it, the soft break works for nineball, that's why it sucks.

play ten ball. how many pro's, etc are going to have to agree before we stop playing nineball? the equipment has made 9-ball obsolete.

-s
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Going back to 9-ball VS 10-ball, again. The WPC in Manila is for the 9-ball. WPC can sanction another championship for 10-ball, but 9-ball will remain.

Eventhough, some people are afraid of change, 9-ball has to evolve (at least, on the pro-level) to remain significant. The same way rules of volleyball and basketball have evolved to accomodate the increased level of competition and playing skill.
 
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You may be on to something, and I may be too old lol. But have you really seen the matches? Are you exited?
 
From watching the interviews on AZBtv, only the main TV table works with the soft break. Therefore, it must be the TV lights making the table play a touch faster and more forgiving, with more slide off the rails.

Its interesting to note that it seems Matchroom use the same setup for every event, with these super glare TV lights above the table to reduce shadow. Add the dry air con in the Araneta Coliseum, then the table will play super forgiving!

Note that when Matchroom holds the World Cup of Pool, World Pool Masters etc in Holland soft breaking doesn't work so well... It must be due to the combination of the tropical climate, air con and strong TV table lighting.

Compare this to the Asian Guinness 9-ball Tour, where nobody soft breaks. They have exactly the same setup, Tournament Brunswick Metros, Aramiths, tapped rack. Same tropical climate, but the TV table lighting is no way as strong. In some of the tour stops, there was a lot of shadow on the balls, and the TV picture was dark.

Climate + Air Con + New Simonis 860 + Tapped Rack + Super Strong TV Lights = Hold it in Europe ;)
 
Fixer said:
You may be on to something, and I may be too old lol. But have you really seen the matches? Are you exited?
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Sopcast rocks!!!

I like the "getting the shape" part of the game. I'm not so big on the break because that's where most of the luck/bad luck is. Yes, when I see a player that's controlling the cueball like he has a remote control, I get excited.
 
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I agree! Alex P. is a master of the soft controlled game, but the shots, man like Capelle said: "nineball is a game of great shots and long position routes."

?t is not anymore. But ok, I will cry myself to sleep now.
 
MJ_Ro said:
They use a template to "tap" the balls on the cloath giving a perfect rack every time. They introduced this method to spped up the time it takes to rack and give a easy time to the refs. :)
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Thanks for the info - well, this just invites a breaking match. The wing ball on the breaking table just runs at the corner. Gomez said he won 80% of his games due to the break! I don't think it's true, but he said it.

Chris
 
TATE said:
Thanks for the info - well, this just invites a breaking match. The wing ball on the breaking table just runs at the corner.
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That's true... but on the other hand, the problem is that if they DON'T get a perfect rack every time, it invites a big racking controversy. The rack should be equal and fair to both players when they are breaking and the only way to ensure that is with a perfect rack every time.... unless somebody comes up with a consistent imperfect rack.

Maybe they should just plug the two bottom corner pockets and then open them up again after the break. LOL. :p
 
By the way, at some tournament(s) they were racking the balls high, with the 9-ball on the spot. That actually seems like a good solution if the wing ball is considered to be a big problem. What were the results of that experiment?
 
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