WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[Pay Up Sucker]

So... cutting left, I would align center of cue ball to outside right edge of the OB visually, come down with the cue aligned with the right side of the tip to the left edge of the OB & pivot til the right side of the tip to the right edge of the OB & 'fire' away. Is that correct?

for a cut to the left:

right side of the shaft/tip going from the vertical axis of the cue ball to the left edge of the object ball and then pivot tip to center ball. Use some feel until you get the hang of the technique because its not easy to describe on here.

 

[Pidge]

Sounds like a half ball pivot. Read this link which explains half ball pivots using CTE.

http://www.billiardsthegame.com/offset-and-pivot-aiming-systems-395

Regards

So... cutting left, I would align center of cue ball to outside right edge of the OB visually, come down with the cue aligned with the right side of the tip to the left edge of the OB & pivot til the right side of the tip to the right edge of the OB & 'fire' away. Is that correct?

 

[Pay Up Sucker]

Sounds like a half ball pivot. Read this link which explains half ball pivots using CTE.

http://www.billiardsthegame.com/offset-and-pivot-aiming-systems-395

Regards

it would be like half ball pivot on the object ball but not on the cue ball.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm intriqued by CTE but I just can't seem to tototally get it. It seems a bit too complex & seems to have some holes. This is not the place to discuss it. But... for the long thin cut, after reading that link, it seems that you aim a 1/8 CB to 1/8 OB overlap & do the pivot to get a bit more cut. If I can aim that, which I can, then why not just visually aim 1/16 to 1/16?

Am I missing something?

Thanks for the help,

 

[Pay Up Sucker]

I'm intriqued by CTE but I just can't seem to tototally get it. It seems a bit too complex & seems to have some holes. This is not the place to discuss it. But... for the long thin cut, after reading that link, it seems that you aim a 1/8 CB to 1/8 OB overlap & do the pivot to get a bit more cut. If I can aim that, which I can, then why not just visually aim 1/16 to 1/16?

Am I missing something?

Thanks for the help,

1/8 to 1/8 is the cte/pro1 version Stan uses. There are no holes in cte/pro1 that i know of? The are a bunch of versions of CTE systems out there, the see system is also a version of Cte in my opinion. The creator of that site uses the half ball pivot system.

1/8 to 1/8 is not considered a cte shot also, but it is part of the cte/pro1 system.

 

[ENGLISH!]

1/8 to 1/8 is the cte/pro1 version Stan uses. There are no holes in cte/pro1 that i know of? The are a bunch of versions of CTE systems out there, the see system is also a version of Cte in my opinion. The creator of that site uses the half ball pivot system.

1/8 to 1/8 is not considered a cte shot also, but it is part of the cte/pro1 system.

Thanks.

Maybe that's my problem, mixed systems.

So if I wanted to committ to one which one would you suggest?

Thanks in advance,

 

[Pay Up Sucker]

Thanks.

Maybe that's my problem, mixed systems.

So if I wanted to committ to one which one would you suggest?

Thanks in advance,

my opinion is cte/pro1 is the best out there and is complete. The system is synced with the geometry of the table and this is the only system I know of that does this. When your experienced and understand the perception you can also hit any target on the table like a ghost ball system. Cte/pro1 also has very strong banking system built in and when combined with the syncing of geometry of the table you can come up with 6,7,8 even 9 shot options per shot by just running through the systems alignments.

Now Cte/pro1 may seem complex but once you understand, it makes the game easier. You may look at a shot and think is it a 20,25, degree cut or try and imagine a ghost ball or find the contact point. I look at it and say its a inside A shot and shoot (an inside A shot may cover from 15-40 degrees of shots, im just throwing out numbers as an example here and not being exact). I go from shot to shot like this, i see where the cb is going and i already know what my shot is before i start walking, but i an experienced and i can shoot quicker than most ghost ball users with cte/pro1 In reality it is the quickest way to learn how to just drop and shoot. They say you need to shoot hamb but cte/pro1 will cut that learning time way down. Dont keep yourself stuck in the 60,70,80,90's this is 2012.

I am not trying to sell anyone on this and I dont really care if anyone uses it or not... im just sharing.

 

[Pidge]

CTE/Pro One is the best pivot system I've come across but I wouldn't suggest starting with it without buying Stan's DVD. Many have tried explaining it via text and video but stuggle and end up confusing you. Stan explains it crystal clear in his DVD and 99.9% of 16+ year olds can understand it.

If you just want to experiment and don't want to waste money on a DVD the methond in the link above is a great starting point for people new to pivot aiming. Once you have that mastered I'd highly recommend CTE/Pro One.

Regards

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm told my system from my 'Ultimage Pool Secrets' is similar, however "inverted"

Originally Posted by CJ Wiley
...or on a thin cut put the right edge of the tip on the left edge of the object ball. 'The Game is the Teacher'




This is a form of CTE, correct? outside of the tip to the inside edge of the ob. Adjust alignment and the inside edge of the cb is aligned close to the outside edge of the ob,correct? I have used this also and it is the nuts for thin cuts.

I'm not well versed in the "CTEs", but I'm told my system from my 'Ultimage Pool Secrets' is similar, however "inverted". I aim a portion of the Cue Ball at either the center OR edge of the Object Ball. I also imagine my tip being in sections that match the sections on my Cue Ball for a "Check and Balance".

I'm always more comfortable finding a check and balance in creating angles AND playing position. It's like in business, if you don't have a check and balance there's potential opportunity and/or profit "slipping" out the door.

 

[madmiller]

Yesterday I had a similiar shot. But... about 1/2 of the pocket was blocked by the 8 ball, my next ball for the win if I could pocket the one(1) ball being 'blocked'. The 8 ball was about 2.5 diamonds from the pocket & the one(1) ball was about 3 diamonds from the pocket, with the cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket diagonally across. I set up to shoot the shot & then I remembered your 87 in an a row with the top of the tip along with CJ's touch of inside. I adjusted & 'blasted' the ball into the appropriate portion of the pocket & followed it up by shooting the 8 in for the win. I agree with you. The techniques work!

Thank you for the inspiration madmiller & to you too CJ for inspiring madmiller.

Regards,

Nice job!
By the way, I got CJ's DVD in the mail! Watched it for the first time and found a lot of useful stuff! I am more confused now than ever lol
I realized that I did a lot of stuff wrong.
By the way, yesterday I went to play the toughest bar box tournament in town (8ball, single match format, double elimination) and took 5th place out of 32 entries. Usually I was two and out in that tournament. My first match I lost when my opponent( semi-pro) , broke and ran on me, and the second match, when I played another A+ player, he ran all the balls and hooked himself on the 8, so I ran all my balls, then left myself with a tough cut on the 8, just undershot the cue ball an inch for position, made the 8-ball and scratched. After the tournament I set up the balls how they were and figured out how to shoot that ball in without scratching, using english.
I noticed one thing- after practicing using CJ's "cocking wrist" methog, I don't miss at all, and my position got a lot better. But the bad thing is right now, because I practiced so many stop shots, many of my shots come up to be stop, even when I need to draw or follow, my muscles automatically make it close to a stun shot. So it's something I need to work on.
Also I used CJ's relaxation method how to keep myself in "the zone", keep my alpha waves going, and it worked!!!

 

[CJ Wiley]

This might lead to a Powerful mixture.

my opinion is cte/pro1 is the best out there and is complete. The system is synced with the geometry of the table and this is the only system I know of that does this. When your experienced and understand the perception you can also hit any target on the table like a ghost ball system. Cte/pro1 also has very strong banking system built in and when combined with the syncing of geometry of the table you can come up with 6,7,8 even 9 shot options per shot by just running through the systems alignments.

Now Cte/pro1 may seem complex but once you understand, it makes the game easier. You may look at a shot and think is it a 20,25, degree cut or try and imagine a ghost ball or find the contact point. I look at it and say its a inside A shot and shoot (an inside A shot may cover from 15-40 degrees of shots, im just throwing out numbers as an example here and not being exact). I go from shot to shot like this, i see where the cb is going and i already know what my shot is before i start walking, but i an experienced and i can shoot quicker than most ghost ball users with cte/pro1 In reality it is the quickest way to learn how to just drop and shoot. They say you need to shoot hamb but cte/pro1 will cut that learning time way down. Dont keep yourself stuck in the 60,70,80,90's this is 2012.

I am not trying to sell anyone on this and I dont really care if anyone uses it or not... im just sharing.

Thanks for sharing your experience with CTE. I don't speak much about it because Stan only had about 90 minutes to show it to me. It aligns very well with what I already do so the learning curve for me was moderate.

However, I still don't understand the "pivoting" the way you guys do (even though I use pivoting techniques, especially on bank shots). Stan said I should learn it, not for myself to use, but to teach what I already do better.

That's the issue, like I ask Stan "why should I switch from what I do, it works" and he said, "yes, you naturally do the different elements involved, and if you knew the process you could teach other players to pocket balls like you do."

This would be true if they, at the same time learned my techniques for shooting straight and creating bigger "pocket zones" with a "Touch" of inside. This might lead to a Powerful mixture. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[madmiller]

Another thing I noticed... When I practiced, I was trying to "cock my wrist" when lifting the cue tip in front of my eyes, while preparing for the shot, before getting down on my shot, which still feels very awkward. And many times I noticed that I do better if I keep my wrist "uncocked" during my PSR, only "cocking" it during my final backstroke, actually while back stoking, as my hand goes backward for the final stop, I automatically "cock" my wrist and then shoot.

 

[CJ Wiley]

you will KNOW the Cue Ball will go straight FOR SURE

Another thing I noticed... When I practiced, I was trying to "cock my wrist" when lifting the cue tip in front of my eyes, while preparing for the shot, before getting down on my shot, which still feels very awkward. And many times I noticed that I do better if I keep my wrist "uncocked" during my PSR, only "cocking" it during my final backstroke, actually while back stoking, as my hand goes backward for the final stop, I automatically "cock" my wrist and then shoot.

Everyone ends up putting their own personal style to their game. I experimented with many things that worked for other Champion players (especially Buddy), and only worked for me in "my own way". I will put out a lot of techniques I use to give you more choices or samples to experiment with. I wouldn't expect anyone to "copy" what works for me, but instead use it as a "Model" to use in building your own unique game.

Let me explain the function of my wrist/fingers with some additional points for you to try.
Experiment with this and I will answer any questions that may come up.

I would suggest putting your hand on your right hip (if you're right handed), and cocking your wrist up like a hammer to where your tip is directly in front of you eyes.

Establish your bridge as usual, but take some natural "practice strokes" STILL looking at your tip. When you get down on the shot your tip is also going to be in front of your eyes, so start out that way ABOVE the shot.

Now, you're taking the "practice stokes" with your wrist/fingers in a cocked position, but as you perform your stokes you feel your wrist and fingers Slightly uncocking and re cocking. You MUST feel a slot/track/guide in this process that makes the cue feel like it's "on track" and your wrist/fingers CAN NOT move left or right, JUST up and down slightly.

Now, when you get down on the shot make sure this "track" or "slot" is going staight from your hand to the cue ball and measure up to an EXACT spot on the cue ball.

I recommend aiming the TOP/Center of your tip a "HAIR" to the inside of the cue ball (right if cutting to the right, left side if cutting to the left). If you're shooting a straight in shot aim the center/top/ of the tip at the CENTER of the cue ball because you don't want it to throw at all if possible.

Also, when I'm doing my practice stokes I'm keeping the cue out in front of my body ( approximately the same distance from my chest as it will be when I'm down on the shot) and keeping my bridge very firm (I personally keep it so firm it burns my fingers slightly).

You want your bridge to be firm by squeezing your fingers slightly, AND also by pushing down slightly with your wrist/fingers to REALLY feel the slot that your cue will be on that can ONLY go straight when down on the shot.

"You want to strive for a feeling in your hand/cue/bridge of complete straightness, like nothing can make your cue go "off track". When you start doing this you will be certain the Cue Ball will go straight, and your confidence will sky rocket." CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[One Pocket John]

Here is one of the best shots I have ever seen. Move forward to 1:50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_plsd-1TNNw

enjoy, man I wish I could do that. :frown:

John

 

[madmiller]

Here is one of the best shots I have ever seen. Move forward to 1:50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_plsd-1TNNw

enjoy, man I wish I could do that. :frown:

John

Helluva shot! Wow! Thanks for posting it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Pinning Effect"

Here is one of the best shots I have ever seen. Move forward to 1:50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_plsd-1TNNw

enjoy, man I wish I could do that. :frown:

John

Awesome SHot!!!

This is an extreme example of "Pinning" the cue ball. If you notice, he bridged on TOP of the rail. He would never do that unless he was trying to drive the top of the tip into the cue ball at a more severe angle to create the "Pinning Effect".

He would have NO chance of doing that without elevating his bridge. This shot is over many people's ability levels, however, "Pinning" the ball to get more reaction out of the cue ball can be incorporated into anyone's game.

 

[madmiller]

Everyone ends up putting their own personal style to their game. I experimented with many things that worked for other Champion players (especially Buddy), and only worked for me in "my own way". I will put out a lot of techniques I use to give you more choices or samples to experiment with. I wouldn't expect anyone to "copy" what works for me, but instead use it as a "Model" to use in building your own unique game.

Let me explain the function of my wrist/fingers with some additional points for you to try.
Experiment with this and I will answer any questions that may come up.

I would suggest putting your hand on your right hip (if you're right handed), and cocking your wrist up like a hammer to where your tip is directly in front of you eyes.

Establish your bridge as usual, but take some natural "practice strokes" STILL looking at your tip. When you get down on the shot your tip is also going to be in front of your eyes, so start out that way ABOVE the shot.

Now, you're taking the "practice stokes" with your wrist/fingers in a cocked position, but as you perform your stokes you feel your wrist and fingers Slightly uncocking and re cocking. You MUST feel a slot/track/guide in this process that makes the cue feel like it's "on track" and your wrist/fingers CAN NOT move left or right, JUST up and down slightly.

Now, when you get down on the shot make sure this "track" or "slot" is going staight from your hand to the cue ball and measure up to an EXACT spot on the cue ball.

I recommend aiming the TOP/Center of your tip a "HAIR" to the inside of the cue ball (right if cutting to the right, left side if cutting to the left). If you're shooting a straight in shot aim the center/top/ of the tip at the CENTER of the cue ball because you don't want it to throw at all if possible.

Also, when I'm doing my practice stokes I'm keeping the cue out in front of my body ( approximately the same distance from my chest as it will be when I'm down on the shot) and keeping my bridge very firm (I personally keep it so firm it burns my fingers slightly).

You want your bridge to be firm by squeezing your fingers slightly, AND also by pushing down slightly with your wrist/fingers to REALLY feel the slot that your cue will be on that can ONLY go straight when down on the shot.

"You want to strive for a feeling in your hand/cue/bridge of complete straightness, like nothing can make your cue go "off track". When you start doing this you will be certain the Cue Ball will go straight, and your confidence will sky rocket." CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'

Thanks again, CJ! I will try it and I am pretty sure the questions will come up.
But I already see how it works when you practice it and make it automatic. Just like if you read my post on the previous page, about me playing in the tournament, I realized what " aiming with your foot" means. After practicing shooting using left foot parallel to the cue stance on different shots, it became automatic. As soon as I see the shot angle, I "step into the shot" and my body is automatically ready to shoot and it makes it almost impossible to miss!!!
I wish I had a table and could practice more. So far I can only do it full day on saturdays on a nine footer and couple nights a week on bar boxes.

 

[DTL]

Comments from another thread - "I think I've figured out CJ's Hammer Stroke"

..........................

 

[CJ Wiley]

don't know or utilize this knowledge or been allowed to "uncover" these hidden shots

Thanks again, CJ! I will try it and I am pretty sure the questions will come up.
But I already see how it works when you practice it and make it automatic. Just like if you read my post on the previous page, about me playing in the tournament, I realized what " aiming with your foot" means. After practicing shooting using left foot parallel to the cue stance on different shots, it became automatic. As soon as I see the shot angle, I "step into the shot" and my body is automatically ready to shoot and it makes it almost impossible to miss!!!
I wish I had a table and could practice more. So far I can only do it full day on saturdays on a nine footer and couple nights a week on bar boxes.

I'm glad you are "real eyesing" the benefits of this approach. Once you make this body alignment technique "yours", you will be able to also use it to hit differnent sides of the pocket.

I will not change my upper body angles if possible, so if you need to try to favor an overcut or undercut you will do it by moving your left foot slightly.

In other words if I have a long, difficult shot off the end rail, cutting the ball to the right I"ll turn my foot slightly left. This slightly shifts my whole body, including my upper body slightly to the left as well. The effect is I'll slighly hit the shot thinner than I originally lined up.

This comes up a lot in one pocket where you can see you can get safe if you overcut the touch shot, but not if you undercut it. The same with taking "free shots" to get safe if you don't make the shot. Play to slightly over cut the given shot with the right speed and you will rarely give your opponent an easy shot if you miss.

Knowing these techniques give players like me a huge advantage over players that don't know or utilize this knowledge or been allowed to "uncover" these hidden systems and techniques....until now. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm not sure how you could use the wrist cock you have illustrated to play pool?

QUOTE (CJ): To use the bicep you have to "pull" the cue don't you? I don't like to do that, I prefer to push it and release my wrist slightly.

You use the biceps to PUSH the cue forward.........hand in the back of the stick pushing forward (elbow flexion).

QUOTE (CJ): my stroke is mostly Tricep

Using the triceps will cause your cue to move backward (elbow extension) It's physically impossible to push the cue through using the triceps.

QUOTE (sfleinen): you are going to use ONLY YOUR FOREARM MUSCLES. No biceps. That's right, no biceps.

Your main forearm muscles on the volar/dorsal sides (top/bottom) mostly cause the wrist to flex and extend......unwanted motions that kill consistency.

View attachment 247860

View attachment 247861

I'm not sure how you could use the wrist cock you have illustrated to play pool? I cock my wrists up and down like in Hank Haney's golf swing or using a hammer. The triceps are the "pushing muscles" and are used in doing push ups and bench presses. The biceps are the "pulling muscles" and are used in doing chin ups and "curls".

I know one thing for sure, when I used to do bicep excercises my stroke suffered greatly.

The best pool playing excercise I've found is doing backwards push ups against the pool table. This strengthens the triceps without bulking them up. Omaha John and Surfer Rod used to do these for their pool strokes and I picked it up from my travels with "Omaha John". CLICK PICTURES "Mike Massey did extended (hands over head) push-ups; all abdominal strength. In the 60's and 70's I did 35 right-arm push-ups, 35 chin-ups (hands supinated), 200 regular push-ups and 70 handstand push-ups (2 hands), each in one setting, every or every other day until I quit doing the chin-ups in the mid 70's when I realized arm-flexor exercises were not good for my pool stroke. When I played pool for a living, I played pool 6 days/60 hrs per week and fasted on Sundays. Extensor exercises were good for my stroke but after years in a desk job, my center of gravity lowered and it hurt to put that extra weight on my hands doing handstand push-ups so I quit that also." SURFER ROD