WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

Hi John,

I noticed your one pocket preference & wanted to ask you if you have employed TOI in one pocket & if so how do feel about the TOI when hitting soft vs. maybe a bit of outside. I had the most problem in my session with TOI on the speed of the float, too soft, too hard, too soft, etc.

I would certainly appreciate any insight you may have as I am heading out Monday or Tuesday for another session with TOI.

Best Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi John,

I noticed your one pocket preference & wanted to ask you if you have employed TOI in one pocket & if so how do feel about the TOI when hitting soft vs. maybe a bit of outside. I had the most problem in my session with TOI on the speed of the float, too soft, too hard, too soft, etc.

I would certainly appreciate any insight you may have as I am heading out Monday or Tuesday for another session with TOI.

Best Regards,
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No, I havent, been at home practicing for the last 2 weeks. I usually play with my oldest son, but today in St. Louis it was about 70* and my son loves to fish.......so he went fishing.

To answer your question, I think that if close attention was paid to slide the cue ball to the contact point it may work out. Dono

You still have to throw (like a ball) the OB into the pocket. I guess you could throw it gently. :)

I'll mess around with it for a while and report back.

John
 
I just haven't herd any good enough reason to spend a few hours shooting this technique from anyone yet. Everyone is to vague when discussing there own thoughts on it. I can see the cue balls tangent line is different but i can accomplish similar position with out shooting with the TOI lol I shoot Pro1 and i am getting a better connection with the cb/ob/pocket than ghost ball/contact point guys, how can this be? :eek: lol
 
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Pay Up Sucker said:
I just haven't herd any good enough reason to spend a few hours shooting this technique from anyone yet. I can see the cue balls tangent line is different but i can accomplish similar position with out shooting with the TOI lol I shoot Pro1 and i am getting a better connection with the ob/pocket than ghost ball/contact point guys, how can this be? :eek: lol
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Pay Up,

The TOI is not an aiming system. It is more of a 'consistancy system'. I used my own way of aiming during my 3.5 hour session with TOI. It can be used with any aiming system. One would have to modify to where one pivots on the CB for pivot systems, but other than that it would work.

For me, I feel it will increase my pocketing of long cut shots by removing the mis that pops up that I believed was due to my astigmatism but may have been due to something else. Age catching up with the spin perception of pocketing balls.

If you're that good that 3 hours of time for possible improvement in your playing ability is not worth it to you, then don't try it.:wink: Maybe we will meet up one day & play a few games.:wink:

Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
Pay Up,

The TOI is not an aiming system. It is more of a 'consistancy system'. I used my own way of aiming during my 3.5 hour session with TOI. It can be used with any aiming system. One would have to modify to where one pivots on the CB for pivot systems, but other than that it would work.

For me, I feel it will increase my pocketing of long cut shots by removing the mis that pops up that I believed was due to my astigmatism but may have been due to something else. Age catching up with the spin perception of pocketing balls.

If you're that good that 3 hours of time for possible improvement in your playing ability is not worth it to you, then don't try it.:wink: Maybe we will meet up one day & play a few games.:wink:

Regards,
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I'm guessing you have not read any posts i have made in the past in this thread? :) I am not understanding your point on why this technique will increase your potting on long shots, your being vague. A shot 5 diamonds away is easier to pot by deflecting it in than hitting a contact point? Too risky for me. Is that what this system is about in your opinion, raising your potting percentage? I think this system is more of a cue ball control technique that is situational for best results. I also only move off center cue ball when needed.
 
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Pay Up Sucker said:
I'm guessing you have not read any posts i have made in the past in this thread? :) I am not understanding your point on why this technique will increase your potting on long shots, your being vague. A shot 5 diamonds away is easier to pot by deflecting it in than hitting a contact point? is that what this system is about in your opinion, raising your potting percentage? I also only move off center cue when needed.
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Yes, you throw (deflect) (like throwing a ball) the ball into the pocket and not spin the ball (gearing) into the pocket. It increases your margin error. Side spin and its effects are very hard to judge.

If you are use to gearing the ball into the pocket then this style will be a difficult (learning) way of making a ball, as it has been for a few of us here including myself.

Waiting on CJ's video for an explanation.

Hope this helps :smile:

John
 
What happens if you have to cheat a pocket or it’s a tight shot,combo,carom, do you still try and deflect it? Are you not scared on a long thin cut you will deflect the cue ball right past the ob without touching it and giving your opponent bih on the 9 ball? lol im just having some fun :)
 
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Pay Up Sucker said:
What happens if you have to cheat a pocket or it’s a tight shot,combo,carom, do you still try and deflect it? Are you not scared on a long thin cut you will deflect the cue ball right past the ob without touching it and giving your opponent bih on the 9 ball? lol im just having some fun :)
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I did just that a few weeks ago before I even put in the 3 hours. The 8 ball was blocking about half of the pocket for my last ball before the 8. I got down to shoot it from the diagonal corner where the CB was & then remembered the TOI & CJ's 3 part pocket system. I got up & got right back down & cinched the ball & then moved up & sank the 8 right behind it.

I also made a few fairly difficult combos with the TOI which is very difficult to do when using english. My combo pecentage is less than I would like & I certainly see & feel that the TOI will improve that as well.

If you have been shooting with mostly center cue ball the TOI should be easier for you than, John & I, who have been using english for a very, very, long time.

John & I are all but committed to the TOI as is Mike because it will improve one's pocketing consistancy & keep the CB from getting loose.

Regards,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
I did just that a few weeks ago before I even put in the 3 hours. The 8 ball was blocking about half of the pocket for my last ball before the 8. I got down to shoot it from the diagonal corner where the CB was & then remembered the TOI & CJ's 3 part pocket system. I got up & got right back down & cinched the ball & then moved up & sank the 8 right behind it.

I also made a few fairly difficult combos with the TOI which is very difficult to do when using english. My combo pecentage is less than I would like & I certainly see & feel that the TOI will improve that as well.

If you have been shooting with mostly center cue ball the TOI should be easier for you than, John & I, who have been using english for a very, very, long time.

John & I are all but committed to the TOI as is Mike because it will improve one's pocketing consistancy & keep the CB from getting loose.

Regards,
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Those are the key words "keeping the cue ball from getting loose".

Using CJ's method and moving up and down on the vertical axis and using a hair of inside on the QB to send where you want is key. Ya just need to get use to it by practicing.

Anyway you want to look at it, avoid using spin at all costs.

John
 
you know i can set up some shots and if your not at cj level you will not get the cue ball into position down table using this technique. It is more for east/west than north/south. Dont you feel your kind of handicapped and limited with cue ball movement since the ball seems to always float off in a specific direction? Is it really that bad to spin the ball when needed also? What do you guys think? :)
 
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Pay Up Sucker said:
you know i can set up some shots and if your not at cj level you will not get the cue ball into position down table using this technique. It is more for east/west than north/south :)
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That is true, on some shots you must use spin. I use spin all the time on some shots because that is the way I was taught. I like to get fancy sometimes.

I havent worked with CJ's method long enough to be good at it. I have stopped using spin unless its absolutely needed and I thank CJ for that.
Just never thought of it.

John
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
you know i can set up some shots and if your not at cj level you will not get the cue ball into position down table using this technique. It is more for east/west than north/south :)
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I would tend to agree with you, but... In CJ's first video he advocates using more rails to get position. Now...that sounds like going three rails with english & he will if he has to change the angle off the rail from that of the TOI. That is one of his exceptions.

I did not have much trouble going north/south or east/west. My problem was trying to find the correct speed, too far, too short, again & again. I think that was because I was making sure to deflect the CB & not come up with a double cross.

My problem is when CJ says to 'always' use the TOI vs. spinning a ball in. My problem with that is you might have to go 3 rails with the TOI when a simple little spin shot gets you the same if not better shape.

It's hard for me to take him literally when he says 'always', but he has reaffirmed that a couple of times. I just can't see that & I probably wll not adopt 'always' into my play.

Regards,
 
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ENGLISH! said:
I would tend to agree with you, but... In CJ's first video he advocates using more rails to get position. Now...that sounds like going three rails with english & he will if he has to change the angle off the rail from that of the TOI. That is one of his exceptions.

I did not have much trouble going north/south or east/west. My problem was trying to find the correct speed, too far, too short, again & again. I think that was because I was making sure to deflect the CB & not come up with a double cross.

My problem is when CJ says to 'always' use the TOI vs. spinning a ball in. My problem with that is you might have to go 3 rails with the TOI when a simple little spin shit gets you the same if not better shape.

It's hard for me to take him literaly when he says 'always' but he has reaffirmed that a couple of times. I just can't see that & I probably wll not adopt 'always' into my play.

Regards,
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True........:smile:

John
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
Finding the correct speed to deflect the ob and move the cb to where you want the cb to go aint an easy task, unless your Cj lol :)
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I've been shooting balls in with some form of english, even on stop shots, & cheating pockets for 46 years. I did not & still do not think one can become a great or very, very good player without knowing how & actually use english.

CJ's TOI is more simple when the entire picture is taken into consideration. While I have been shooting I don't how many different types of shots, CJ has been shooting basically one, either high, center or low.

Doing that, has to build a higher ball pocketing percentage. If you have not tried it for 3 hours, I would not be so quick to make it out to be so difficult, because it isn't. In 46 years of shooting almost every shot with english I never pulled out a slide rule or calculator to figure out, 'this is the speed I want, so with this much tip off set I will get collision induced throw off set spin, so aim there'.

I have simply trusted my minds perecption to tell my body what to do to get the ball into the pocket & put the CB there. It has worked fairly well for almost all of those 46 years.

I would suggest you give it, the TOI, a 3 hour 'investment'. If it pays off, great. If is does not, well you at least worked on your stroke for 3 hours, not a total loss.

Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
I've been shooting balls in with some form of english, even on stop shots, & cheating pockets for 46 years. I did not & still do not think one can become a great or very, very good player without knowing how & actually use english.

CJ's TOI is more simple when the entire picture is taken into consideration. While I have been shooting I don't how many different types of shots, CJ has been shooting basically one, either high, center or low.

Doing that, has to build a higher ball pocketing percentage. If you have not tried it for 3 hours, I would not be so quick to make it out to be so difficult, because it isn't. In 46 years of shooting almost every shot with english I never pulled out a slide rule or calculator to figure out, 'this is the speed I want, so with this much tip off set I will get collision induced throw off set spin, so aim there'.

I have simply trusted my minds perecption to tell my body what to do to get the ball into the pocket & put the CB there. It has worked fairly well for almost all of those 46 years.

I would suggest you give it, the TOI, a 3 hour 'investment'. If it pays off, great. If is does not, well you at least worked on your stroke for 3 hours, not a total loss.

Regards,
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I basically only shoot high, center and low and move inside and outside when needed like CJ does.So after playing for 46 years you just now have realized hitting with out unnecessary english will raise your pocketing percentage? I know what the TOI does and how it works, Maybe some need three hours to understand it but i dont think i am one of them :) If someone other than Cj wants to put a video up of the technique i will also :)

ps: im guessing your an apa 6?
 
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