WTF....... Some People........

Dirtbmw20

Dirtbmw20

Lee Casto
Silver Member
Sorry but this is actually a two part post. One part to RANT and one part to ask if anyone has ever seen/experienced this before and what to do...........

I got a local player bring me his Predator original 314 shaft to put a tip on. ALL I did was install 1 Moori tip and clean the shaft, had it in my possession all of about 14 hours. I get shafts all the time that the tips are "flared" out on or "mushroomed" out on and I honestly don't think much about it. I noticed the collet was hard to slide over the tip and I really didn't pay much attention to it. AFTER I put the tip on and was in the process of cleaning it (the ferrule was really dirty on it), I noticed about the last 1/8" of the ferrule was actually mushroomed out. I had already installed the tip but didn't pay that much attention, didn't notice it until I was cleaning the shaft. I take it back to the guy and point it out and show it to him, and he proceeded to insinuating and accusing me of doing that to his shaft. This guy is SO full of himself all he keeps saying is "I'm a high ranked player and I've been shooting a long time and I would have noticed that". I assured him that just putting a tip on and cleaning the shaft couldn't have caused that to happen and he is still accusing me of doing that to his shaft. He even said he called Predator and they told him it is common and most likely caused my humidity and to send it in and they would measure the shaft and repair it if the shaft hasn't been sanded down or altered, but yet he's still accusing me of doing this to his shaft. WTF............

Anybody ever seen or experienced this before ??? WTH am I suppose to do ??? There's no way in hell me putting a tip on and cleaning the shaft caused this to happen.

here is a close up pic of the ferrule,not sure if you can see it or not. I can see it but I know it's there.

 
I can totally see that happening with some people.

I have gotten into a habit of looking over their current shaft when they give it to me from tip to joint and if I see anything (loose ferrule, cracks, dings) I point them out to the customer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Could burnishing the tip cause the ferrule to swell if the cloth/leather got on the front of the ferrule? I know some of the softer plastics will swell from heat when sanding too much. Not saying you got it to hot burnishing, just a question for someone with more knowledge than myself.
 
I just got off the phone with Cory at Seyberts (who does all of Predators warranty work) and he told me it is very possible that it is something I may have caused, although he said he sees it thousands of times, he said it is very common. He told me that on the original 314's that if you burnish the tip and get it too hot, that it will cause the tip of the ferrule to swell like that. That's why they don't use that material anymore. WELL DAMN !!!

Now I gotta call this guy back and eat my words. BUT.... I'm an honest guy and as honest as they come, so it is what it is, and I'll either fix it myself, or pay to have it fixed by Seberts, whichever the guy chooses. :embarrassed2:
 
deadbeat said:
Could burnishing the tip cause the ferrule to swell if the cloth/leather got on the front of the ferrule? I know some of the softer plastics will swell from heat when sanding too much. Not saying you got it to hot burnishing, just a question for someone with more knowledge than myself.
Click to expand...

That can happen with those softer ferrule materials. It's also likely to happen from the compression, when a player plays his tip down to nothing. Always best to carefully examine for these things right when you get the shaft/cue from the customer and point it out then.
 
deadbeat said:
Could burnishing the tip cause the ferrule to swell if the cloth/leather got on the front of the ferrule? I know some of the softer plastics will swell from heat when sanding too much. Not saying you got it to hot burnishing, just a question for someone with more knowledge than myself.
Click to expand...

Apparently that's what happened deadbeat, looks like I may be to blame in this case.
 
cueaddicts said:
That can happen with those softer ferrule materials. It's also likely to happen from the compression, when a player plays his tip down to nothing. Always best to carefully examine for these things right when you get the shaft/cue from the customer and point it out then.
Click to expand...

It had a pretty thick tip on it, he just wanted a Moori tip put on. LESSON LEARNED at my expense on this one
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
Sorry but this is actually a two part post. One part to RANT and one part to ask if anyone has ever seen/experienced this before and what to do...........

I got a local player bring me his Predator original 314 shaft to put a tip on. ALL I did was install 1 Moori tip and clean the shaft, had it in my possession all of about 14 hours. I get shafts all the time that the tips are "flared" out on or "mushroomed" out on and I honestly don't think much about it. I noticed the collet was hard to slide over the tip and I really didn't pay much attention to it. AFTER I put the tip on and was in the process of cleaning it (the ferrule was really dirty on it), I noticed about the last 1/8" of the ferrule was actually mushroomed out. I had already installed the tip but didn't pay that much attention, didn't notice it until I was cleaning the shaft. I take it back to the guy and point it out and show it to him, and he proceeded to insinuating and accusing me of doing that to his shaft. This guy is SO full of himself all he keeps saying is "I'm a high ranked player and I've been shooting a long time and I would have noticed that". I assured him that just putting a tip on and cleaning the shaft couldn't have caused that to happen and he is still accusing me of doing that to his shaft. He even said he called Predator and they told him it is common and most likely caused my humidity and to send it in and they would measure the shaft and repair it if the shaft hasn't been sanded down or altered, but yet he's still accusing me of doing this to his shaft. WTF............

Anybody ever seen or experienced this before ??? WTH am I suppose to do ??? There's no way in hell me putting a tip on and cleaning the shaft caused this to happen.

here is a close up pic of the ferrule,not sure if you can see it or not. I can see it but I know it's there.

Click to expand...

Hi Lee,

Over ten years ago I had my first experience with a Predator ferrule and I had to buy the guy a new shaft because I screwed his up from lack of knowledge concerning the product.

After installing a tip I wet the side of the tip with spit and held a paper towel to it to burnish the side. I notice a little some thing funny and it put some compound on the ferrule and started to polish the ferrule and all of a sudden the ferrule started to bend and distort and it was clear that I had completely screwed it up.

I replaced the ferrule and put a new tip on gave it to the player and that was that. Neither he nor I understood that I had just ruined the engineering of his low deflection shaft that had low end mass. Part of that engineering is because the ferrule is very light weight. The end of the shaft was also hollow and filled with stuffed mono filament packed in there.

So after the experience I call Predator and found out the info and got religion. Because the ferrule was so light and thin it could not withstand the polishing heat from the friction of my paper towel. When the ferrule bent I could not believe because polishing ferrules was something I always did up till that time.

So I talked to my customer and told him to order a new shaft and I paid for it because of my lack of experience with Predator engineering.

Till this day I never sand , clean or touch the ferrule when I do a tip on one. Predator on there website at the time said, " sanding their ferrules void the warrantee of the product".

So now I tell the customer, I will not touch or clean up your ferrule unless to tell me to and then I do it very very carefully and not to build up heat.

Root cause of a problem encountered, corrective actions taken, lessons learned!

Hope my losing 175.00 helps you in the future.

Rick
 
Last edited:
I've seen that quite a bit. Sometimes I see it before I start but more often after. If it is before I start the work, I believe it to be from ferrule compacting/buckling from impact. The Predator shafts were never meant for breaking.

Afterwards, I believe it is that the heat from burnishing the tip may cause the thinner walled ferrule to swell out.

Either way, if I see it, I replace it.

I find it hard to believe that humidity would have an effect on a plastic ferrule.
 
deadbeat said:
Could burnishing the tip cause the ferrule to swell if the cloth/leather got on the front of the ferrule? I know some of the softer plastics will swell from heat when sanding too much. Not saying you got it to hot burnishing, just a question for someone with more knowledge than myself.
Click to expand...

If he overheated the ferrule it would start to melt, it would look like a moon crater. The ferrules on the original predators were pretty soft and would, over time, could deform a little. I look over repair jobs with a "fine tooth comb" and ive handed it back to the customer when I see it could become another pandoras box.
 
ratcues said:
I've seen that quite a bit. Sometimes I see it before I start but more often after. If it is before I start the work, I believe it to be from ferrule compacting/buckling from impact. The Predator shafts were never meant for breaking.

Afterwards, I believe it is that the heat from burnishing the tip may cause the thinner walled ferrule to swell out.

Either way, if I see it, I replace it.

I find it hard to believe that humidity would have an effect on a plastic ferrule.
Click to expand...

Replace that ferrule?
That's another can of corn.
Thin wall pressfit Isollast?
 
ratcues said:
I've seen that quite a bit. Sometimes I see it before I start but more often after. If it is before I start the work, I believe it to be from ferrule compacting/buckling from impact. The Predator shafts were never meant for breaking.

Afterwards, I believe it is that the heat from burnishing the tip may cause the thinner walled ferrule to swell out.

Either way, if I see it, I replace it.

I find it hard to believe that humidity would have an effect on a plastic ferrule.
Click to expand...


Ryan, Cory at Seyberts told me that whoever told him it was from the humidity, was clearly wrong. He said it was definitely caused by heat, not humidity.

But he also told me that to fix it or correct it, to just take a razor blade and shave it down. If I send it to them, that is most likely what they will do too. But he did tell me to NOT replace the ferrule, that I'de be opening up a can of worms I didn't want to deal with since the tip is filled with that foam.
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
Ryan, Cory at Seyberts told me that whoever told him it was from the humidity, was clearly wrong. He said it was definitely caused by heat, not humidity.

But he also told me that to fix it or correct it, to just take a razor blade and shave it down. If I send it to them, that is most likely what they will do too. But he did tell me to NOT replace the ferrule, that I'de be opening up a can of worms I didn't want to deal with since the tip is filled with that foam.
Click to expand...

Take a pass and wet sand it?
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
Thanks Eric. I want the easiest way and that's also what Cory at Seyberts suggested I do.
Click to expand...

No prob. Been there. Not a fun feeling. The razor will work great. Keep a steady hand, use lower spindle speed because of the heat sensitive material, and if you are good it'll look brand new or better. I'd be lost in my shop if I didn't have razor blades. Not utility blades, but razor blades. Big difference.
 
Dirtbmw20 said:
But he also told me that to fix it or correct it, to just take a razor blade and shave it down. If I send it to them, that is most likely what they will do too. But he did tell me to NOT replace the ferrule, that I'de be opening up a can of worms I didn't want to deal with since the tip is filled with that foam.
Click to expand...

My issue with shaving the ferrule down is that you now have an even thinner ferrule wall, increasing the likelihood of it cracking/buckling under playing conditions. It creates a weak point in an area that was already compromised.

I feel the correct option is to replace the ferrule but I am authorized and trained to do it. That may be why Cory advised against it.
 
ratcues said:
My issue with shaving the ferrule down is that you now have an even thinner ferrule wall, increasing the likelihood of it cracking/buckling under playing conditions. It creates a weak point in an area that was already compromised.

I feel the correct option is to replace the ferrule but I am authorized and trained to do it. That may be why Cory advised against it.
Click to expand...
I think that's exactly why. He said if I wasn't familiar with it's construction (which obviously I'm not or I wouldn't have created my own problem) then I'd be opening a whole nother can of worms. Plus he said they don't make that ferrule material anymore and all I have is juma on hand. It turned out good in my opinion. I guess the customer will be the deciding factor.
 
Sorry guys, but I find it really hard to get my head around the plastic swell purely from heat.
The most likely situation is that the material does not have a high enough compressive strength, over time of use has compressed and swelled a little.
I just can't see it getting larger in diameter just from rubbing it.
To me, the ferrule has swelled from compressive force, is now junk and needs replacing.
On tip repairs, I only clean the ferrule 1st, and measure it. Put the tape on it, cut off the old one and trim the new tip to the measured ferrule size +0.002 inches , job done.
Most of my customers do not want the shaft cleaned or any sanding of any kind on the ferrule what so ever.
Neil
Your replaced ferrule looks good.
 
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