wwyd 3 cushion

Here is a drawing of the table. I think the balls are pretty close but maybe BTS can say. Illustrated is the shot I proposed. I think it is possible to get the shot too short. There is a kiss to avoid after 3 or 4 cushions as the yellow ball is flying up and down the table.

CropperCapture[55].png
 
12squared said:
Another option would be to hit the yellow ball full in the face with high right spin. The idea is for the cueball to hit the short rail first near the yellow; right long rail; and then pick up one of rails before red to score.
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Like this:

CropperCapture[56].png
 
Two other shots are to play off red thinly on the outer side and play the long natural. Some reverse or draw will help if you hit too full but I don't think it's required.

Secondly play across the table to the long rail then the short rail right by the red and then go one or two rails to yellow. This is a pretty standard safety play if yellow and red are reversed. I know one top player who may have never hit the first ball. (But with the drop-in shot above there is no reason to play safe.)
 
I don't even know how to play safe or for position yet Bob, I go for it every shot

I will try your diagrammed shots tonight
 
Bob Jewett said:
Two other shots are to play off red thinly on the outer side and play the long natural. Some reverse or draw will help if you hit too full but I don't think it's required.

Secondly play across the table to the long rail then the short rail right by the red and then go one or two rails to yellow. This is a pretty standard safety play if yellow and red are reversed. I know one top player who may have never hit the first ball. (But with the drop-in shot above there is no reason to play safe.)
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Bob, have you ever played the shot you showed in the first diagram from these positions? It is my sense the the cue ball will fall toward the middle of the foot rail after contacting the fourth rail. I think this would be true even if playing on very old cloth. I would like to hear of someone taking this shot to a table and experimenting with it. I don't have a billiard table available. At least not until this weekend.

The second shot you've diagrammed has merit but the hit has next to no margin for error partly because the cue ball has picked up only two rails as it approaches the red. Also, that precise a hit on the yellow from that distance and with that much english seems a lot to ask. Going off the red either from the outside or inside seems so much easier. The hit can be struck without great effort and far more accurately. I think this is a no brainer.

Tom
 
bbb said:
since i cant tell how far off the end rail the yellow ball is its hard to give you a thickness of hit or spin although it looks like the hits will be rather full and it will take a great stroke
could be a great computer shot but not practical...:rolleyes:
the concept is to spin out of the corner to diamond 4 and float to the red
here is a diagram for the 2 possibilities i proposed
looks like in the top diagram i drew the line to diamond 5 not 4
but you get the idea
View attachment 440516

View attachment 440517
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Bob Jewett said:
Here is a drawing of the table. I think the balls are pretty close but maybe BTS can say. Illustrated is the shot I proposed. I think it is possible to get the shot too short. There is a kiss to avoid after 3 or 4 cushions as the yellow ball is flying up and down the table.

View attachment 440525
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bob your drawing is much better than mine...:)
 
TRWpool said:
Bob, have you ever played the shot you showed in the first diagram from these positions? It is my sense the the cue ball will fall toward the middle of the foot rail after contacting the fourth rail. ...
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Yes, I have. If you play the shot without side spin it is easy to get the shot too short. I think if you play it with a lot of follow it is possible to get the cue ball to hook short after the second rail and also go short on slippery cloth.

As for Dave's full-ball follow shot, the margin for error is much larger than it looks because most of the speed comes from the side spin which tends to correct the angles. You have to practice full-ball hits with lots of side. But predicting which cushion is the third is a 50-50 proposition.
 
great wwyd
thanks for posting it
wish there were more of these for us noobies to learn from the discussions
 
bbb said:
great wwyd
thanks for posting it
wish there were more of these for us noobies to learn from the discussions
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Yes it seemed to bring up quite a bit of attention

Which is a plus for me :)

I'll do more, had no idea Tom wirth was a 3c man, doesn't suprise me though


I'm only a feel player, and I felt immediately your suggestions wouldn't work, lol

First one came close, but it didn't have the gas to make it, plus yellow moved the red out of the corner, after that I never came close again

I tired them though no doubt, the angle off the last long rail brought it to the middle of the short rail
 
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beneath_the_sur said:
Yes it seemed to bring up quite a bit of attention

Which is a plus for me :)

I'll do more, had no idea Tom wirth was a 3c man, doesn't suprise me though


I'm only a feel player, and I felt immediately your suggestions wouldn't work, lol

First one came close, but it didn't have the gas to make it, plus yellow moved the red out of the corner, after that I never came close again

I tired them though no doubt, the angle off the last long rail brought it to the middle of the short rail
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What'd I say?

Tom
 
beneath_the_sur said:
Yes it seemed to bring up quite a bit of attention

Which is a plus for me :)

I'll do more, had no idea Tom wirth was a 3c man, doesn't suprise me though


I'm only a feel player, and I felt immediately your suggestions wouldn't work, lol

First one came close, but it didn't have the gas to make it, plus yellow moved the red out of the corner, after that I never came close again

I tired them though no doubt, the angle off the last long rail brought it to the middle of the short rail
Click to expand...

IMO, this is the danger of having your own table. If you aren't playing other people you don't learn very fast, IMO. There are a lot of shots in Byrne that I didn't really understand until I saw an opponent shoot it. There are so many variables in a 3C shot that it is very hard to learn from diagrams. I think Tom Is right that many players would lose the zigzag long. But I bet that if we watched Bob shoot it we would see how he avoids that. And learn some things about that type of shot.

I play with guys who for the most part are a little better than me and I learn a lot from that. I also have the good fortune to occasionally play with 12squared, who is a real player, and learn a whole lot more. Some shots cannot be grocked without seeing a good player shoot them, IMO.
 
KissedOut said:
IMO, this is the danger of having your own table. If you aren't playing other people you don't learn very fast, IMO. There are a lot of shots in Byrne that I didn't really understand until I saw an opponent shoot it. There are so many variables in a 3C shot that it is very hard to learn from diagrams. I think Tom Is right that many players would lose the zigzag long. But I bet that if we watched Bob shoot it we would see how he avoids that. And learn some things about that type of shot.

I play with guys who for the most part are a little better than me and I learn a lot from that. I also have the good fortune to occasionally play with 12squared, who is a real player, and learn a whole lot more. Some shots cannot be grocked without seeing a good player shoot them, IMO.
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Well thank you for your response although I couldn't disagree with you more on your opinion of owning a table

Everyone's wired differently
 
i am a student of 3c as i dont have access to a table on any regular basis
so in essence i am a virtual 3c player
i have studied systems and apply them to layouts
i am not trying to side rail this wwyd with the age old argument/discussion of systems vs feel so lets not go there
from my reading when you go short rail/ long rail/ long rail
the connecting tract for what you guys are calling the zig zag is double the diamond number up to diamond 4
i will show you a representative diagram
i am sure do to my lack of experience there are nuances i am missing
that is the reason for this post so i can learn....:)

but i am interested to know from tom why you thought it would fall to the middle of the short rail ( i would expect if you hit diamond 5 (after the square) it would track there)

richard where on the the long rail did you hit to have it track to the middle of the short rail...did you hit diamond 4??

and to bob jewett why do you seem to agree with me that the shot is possible (even if difficult and maybe not the best shot ,,,my comments)
wwyd 3c 3.png
 
But Hard for me to remember exactly as it only took. That route once, but by the 4th rail there was no more English on it , or if there was, it would be the wrong English to take it at that angle to the red, which wold be the reason why it went to the middle of the short rail
 
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