Reed Foley
New member
Yes, magnified you can see the 9 ball wobble ever so slightly = Foul.
Yapp winning, with a foul! Just like Maradona making a goal with his hands :D
- Thread starter smoochie
- Start date
With as much respect as I can muster, this clip does show the 9B moving to the left a hair. From the available clips, it's better than 50/50 it moved due to the impact on the cue ball - jogged loose so to speak. How much djya have on this?
Interesting that peering through this moment, there appears to be the Dr. Dave jacked up CB foul going on.
Here is another video of the shot at the 21:47 mark. For those on a computer you can pause any youtube video (the space bar can be used to pause/play with a bit more precision) and then while the video is paused you can advance and rewind the video one single frame at a time by using the comma and period keys. That really lets you look for any movement in the most precise detail.
I think the jury is still out as to whether there was a foul here or not for several reasons. In the video I posted above the nine only appears to ever so very slightly "move" at the exact same moment the shadow of the shaft disappears from the yellow part of the nine ball, and that shadow moving across and then disappearing from the nine ball, combined with the way cameras capture images and the way even subtle lighting changes affects the way it captures things, could possibly be creating the optical illusion of subtle ball movement that didn't actually happen.
Also, the nine does not appear to move at all until a full 5-6 frames after the cue shaft is clearly away from the nine ball, which further supports it being an optical illusion because if the nine moved from contact with the shaft it would have moved immediately, not six frames later.
Then you have the fact that in the above video the nine doesn't appear to move until six frames after the shaft is away from it, but in the close up video from post #7 it appears to move instantaneously, and it isn't just a case of the the video above being too far away to see the movement until six frames later either. You can see it clearly and would have seen it move right away if it had, the two videos are just showing two different things. This again seems to indicate artifacting in the recordings and/or an optical illusions captured in the recordings due to the moving shadows and lighting on the nine ball causing problematic lighting changes for the camera. In the video from post #7 you can even see the 6 ball "moving" very slightly as well, so we know for sure some level of artifacting or illusion is occurring.
One thing is certain. If this was a foul, and the jury is still out in my mind due to the discrepancies noted above although I don't dismiss the possibility, it was so unbelievably slight that as Bob said it is much more likely that it would not be felt by the shooter during a forward stroke where the very, very, very slight brush of the nine happened at essentially the exact same time as cue tip hit the cue ball, and during one of the final balls of the final game to win the US Open and $100,000 at that.
Then you have the fact that Yapp is the same guy who, while playing SVB in the final 16 of the 2021 US Open, a year where Yapp was playing lights out and was one of if not the favorite to win the event from there, tried to let Shane slide on a time foul where Shane claimed to have called for an extension but very clearly had not. Yapp did that knowing that it could possibly ultimately cost him the match, many thousands of dollars, and a very legit chance at the title. Hard to imagine the same guy that would try to let his opponent slide on a foul in the spirit of sportsmanship, even knowing that the foul had indeed technically occurred, and even after the ref had already firmly made the call and was trying to give Yapp ball in hand, would be the same guy who would intentionally try to hide a foul that he knew he had committed. Not impossible of course, but just one more reason to very seriously doubt he was aware of any foul on the nine even if one had occurred.
Analysis and closeups here:
Or at 27:10 in the actual match here:
I think the jury is still out as to whether there was a foul here or not for several reasons. In the video I posted above the nine only appears to ever so very slightly "move" at the exact same moment the shadow of the shaft disappears from the yellow part of the nine ball, and that shadow moving across and then disappearing from the nine ball, combined with the way cameras capture images and the way even subtle lighting changes affects the way it captures things, could possibly be creating the optical illusion of subtle ball movement that didn't actually happen.
Also, the nine does not appear to move at all until a full 5-6 frames after the cue shaft is clearly away from the nine ball, which further supports it being an optical illusion because if the nine moved from contact with the shaft it would have moved immediately, not six frames later.
Then you have the fact that in the above video the nine doesn't appear to move until six frames after the shaft is away from it, but in the close up video from post #7 it appears to move instantaneously, and it isn't just a case of the the video above being too far away to see the movement until six frames later either. You can see it clearly and would have seen it move right away if it had, the two videos are just showing two different things. This again seems to indicate artifacting in the recordings and/or an optical illusions captured in the recordings due to the moving shadows and lighting on the nine ball causing problematic lighting changes for the camera. In the video from post #7 you can even see the 6 ball "moving" very slightly as well, so we know for sure some level of artifacting or illusion is occurring.
One thing is certain. If this was a foul, and the jury is still out in my mind due to the discrepancies noted above although I don't dismiss the possibility, it was so unbelievably slight that as Bob said it is much more likely that it would not be felt by the shooter during a forward stroke where the very, very, very slight brush of the nine happened at essentially the exact same time as cue tip hit the cue ball, and during one of the final balls of the final game to win the US Open and $100,000 at that.
Then you have the fact that Yapp is the same guy who, while playing SVB in the final 16 of the 2021 US Open, a year where Yapp was playing lights out and was one of if not the favorite to win the event from there, tried to let Shane slide on a time foul where Shane claimed to have called for an extension but very clearly had not. Yapp did that knowing that it could possibly ultimately cost him the match, many thousands of dollars, and a very legit chance at the title. Hard to imagine the same guy that would try to let his opponent slide on a foul in the spirit of sportsmanship, even knowing that the foul had indeed technically occurred, and even after the ref had already firmly made the call and was trying to give Yapp ball in hand, would be the same guy who would intentionally try to hide a foul that he knew he had committed. Not impossible of course, but just one more reason to very seriously doubt he was aware of any foul on the nine even if one had occurred.
Analysis and closeups here:
Or at 27:10 in the actual match here:
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I’m not 100% sure Yapp fouled but if he did I’d bet he didn’t know it. I’m basing this on his character as a player.
Nothingburger.
Ultimately water. Still, conclusive clip would be cool.
This makes a lot more senses as it is digital Artifacts of the recording and not an actual FOUL. I dont think any ball can move like that without physically rollings
Where was the referee standing? It's hard to see but it did move if you zoom in.
Aren't you the one that was looking for micro movements using slow motion
Don't feel bad USA is always the best and correct. USA USA
It’s also possible that the 9 ball rocked slightly from the vibration of Yapp’s elevated stroke, or a divot in the cloth/slate. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility.
On the hilite reel you only see the ball take a micro step to the left after the stick is clear. There is no contact movement. I believe the the thud of striking the CB tipped the 9ball over. We've all had balls spontaneously tip, often as we get down to shoot or worse after having pulled the trigger.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've had balls move from slack in the cloth before too. I mean, I'd hope the cloth was tight on that table but stuff can happen. Maybe the 9 had picked up a fleck of chalk from SVB's Master chalk and the vibration rocked it.
I'm not here to defend Yapp or anything, the 9B did appear to move but I don't think he felt it or touched it. If you look close it doesn't move away as it would if you touched it, it just rocks toward the side his cue was on. If he had touched it I think it would have had to rock away from his cue then back. It really doesn't look like the rock was caused by him contacting it, just some kind of settling. It is possible it's a camera artifact.
As far as I know Yapp is an honest player. I don't think he would foul and try to pass it off. If he did touch it I don't think he felt it in any way.
Wonder what Yapp and Gorst or anybody that was there thinks.
1. replay clearly shows it's a foul
2. I doubt Yapp felt it
3. Doesn't matter, because when there's a referee the players don't make the calls
In any game w/a ref, missed calls are part of the game.
Question - in MR events, is the ref allowed to consult replays? Are players entitled to ask the ref to do so?
2. I doubt Yapp felt it
3. Doesn't matter, because when there's a referee the players don't make the calls
In any game w/a ref, missed calls are part of the game.
Question - in MR events, is the ref allowed to consult replays? Are players entitled to ask the ref to do so?