yesterday (9/10) was a sad day for billiards!

[Double-Dave]

One of those situations where you can choose to be a good sportsman or not.
Everybody knows Earl intended to make the 10 and he made the 10, this is what
the call-shot rule is there for, for players to make intentional shots.

Yes, by the letter of the rule Jayson was right, but not by the intention of the rule.

This is similar to your openent lining up for the 5-ball when the 4 is still on the table
in 9/10-ball. You can choose to be a good sportsman and warn him or choose to be
less then a good sportsman and not warn him. It does not matter (to me) whether or
not Earl was a good sportsman during that match, I know that I would always tell
my oponent he's lining up the wrong ball because I strive to be a good sportsman.

So for me, the outcome of the decision of the TD is in line with the intention of the
rules even if that is not the reason the TD arrived at the ruling he made.

Regards, Dave

 

[Straightpool_99]

I haven't watched the video, but...Does it occur to anyone that Earl may not have been aware of the fact that he called the 2? Sometimes people misspeak without being aware of it.

Had he played the 2, I as an opponent would have had to clarify which pocket it was going in. You have to nominate the ball AND the pocket! The 2 does not have any obvious pocket, so unless the pocket was explicitly stated I would have asked Earl for a clarification! A proper referee should have done so as well! Had the referee been awake, we wouldn't have had this dilemma in the first place.

 

[Scott Lee]

It's not a world championship. If it were, it would either be an invitational event, or you'd have to win your way in via a qualifier. When there really was a 14.1 world championship, there were refs on every table, on every shot. Whether the player announced the shot, or not, the ref was responsible for verbally announcing the shot to the audience BEFORE the player shot. Definitely not the case in Charlie Williams 14.1 events.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Gentle men's rules I guess it was obvious he was trying to make the ball he was looking at it forever. But I agree. I would have called the foul. It's the world championship

 

[SJDinPHX]

The ref called the outcome. Don't blame Earl.

You have to blame earl if you called the wrong ball you just call the wrong ball you got to eat that. I was a big supporter of earl but not anymore. What a bush league move!

I agree 100% dnixon!..But, regardless of this particular incident, Earl's ongoing antics and endless chatter, do nothing but create confusion and dissent in every game he has ever played!..This is why he is constantly embroiled in controversy, He certainly plays good enough, that his opponents should not also have to be subjected, full time, to his ongoing distractions!

That is why I have never been able to support him!..There is no telling how many times, players like him, and the late Ronnie Allen, have won matches, or games, strictly based on their insistence on creating distractions! ..Players like Efren, Mizerak, and many others, have never needed to rely on creating adversity to win games, they let their good play alone, overpower their opponents!..To me, that greatly lowers his ranking, as one of the all time greats!

That is also why I am embarrassed for our country, when he represents us in a prestigious event, like the Mosconi Cup!..He seems to always be 'the ugly American', showing his worst behavior!..If pool needs his act to fill spectator seats, then we are really in trouble!

 

[Cracktherack]

On more than one occasion, I've seen my opponent down and ready to pull the trigger on the 4 ball when the 3 is still on the table. (9 ball) I tell them "Hey, you'd better shoot the 3 first." They get off the shot and realize I saved them from a foul. It's called sportsmanship.
Would I do it at 8-8 going to 9? Yes, but I also feel it's wrong for a spectator to do it.
I just don't want a tainted win.

 

[Buckzapper]

All you have to do to win is shoot the balls in before the other guy does.
Normal conduct at any pool tournament is like rattling the food dishes at the dog pound.

 

[sciarco]

14.1

Amen to that case closed.

 

[croscoe]

i will start off by saying i watched the video where you can hear earl call the 2 ball. regardless of what he was aiming or looking at. HE CALLED THE 2! shouldve been jason's shot! if or when you play with the antics that earl does your gonna be called out like that. im sure if jason were playing a darren or mika he wouldnt have said anything. i met mr shaw last weekend and he was a true gentleman not once was there drama in one of his matches. i used to root for earl but after yesterday i feel different. if we as a pool playing community want this game to grow and improve players like mr strickland shouldnt be given the time of day.

Really why should this be any different ? Earl's not from Europe?

 

[Halter]

Not accepting the TD decision is bad sportmanship

Based on the comments on this thread this decision could go either way. Shouldn't the point be that the Tournament Director / Referee heard both sides, understood the issue, evaluated the tape, and made the call.

Once the TD made the call, Shaw should have returned to his seat and let the shooter continue. The fact that Shaw didn't do this should have resulted in the TD ejecting him from the game at that moment.

Argue how you may, but once the Official makes the call - the dispute is over and you go back to playing or you are out! That is how it is done in every other sport. Not accepting the Official's decision is the bad sportsmanship!

 

[phillyviper1]

jason tried to win on a techinicality....My opinion is if he wants to win, HE SHOULD OUTPLAY THE OTHER GUY AND QUIT TRYING TO WIN ON BULLSHIT.

Jason wasn't trying to win on bull...t, all Jason expected was that the rule be enforced. Earl clearly called the 2 ball and yes he may have been shooting the 10 but rules are in place for a reason and this is not just a weekly event. THIS is a world championship and if players can't follow the rules and directors can't enforce the rules than what is the point in even having rules. Bottom line is earl is a creep always has been and always will be. He causes so much drama to the game and he is a cheater. Very simple.

 

[john coloccia]

Jason wasn't trying to win on bull...t, all Jason expected was that the rule be enforced. Earl clearly called the 2 ball and yes he may have been shooting the 10 but rules are in place for a reason and this is not just a weekly event. THIS is a world championship and if players can't follow the rules and directors can't enforce the rules than what is the point in even having rules. Bottom line is earl is a creep always has been and always will be. He causes so much drama to the game and he is a cheater. Very simple.

Maybe you should actually read the rule.

 

[12squared]

"The official rule : If the Player or Referee (as in traditional 14.1 matches) calls the incorrect ball number on an obvious shot, the obvious shot and pocket called supersedes the mistaken numeric call."

Please stop using this "official rule." you've already done this on another thread, and you were called out on it as the rule you cited does not contain this so called "official rule"

Here are the official WPA 14.1 rules since you asked (note it sites rule in 1.6, which I will add as well). Although I am not big Earl fan and initially was siding with JS, after reviewing these rules I believe the TD made right call siding w/Earl.

And, I too believe Charlie's tournaments NOT to be World Championships, this was manufactured by Charlie and Dragon Promotions (but it's still a good tourney).


4.5 Shots Required to Be Called
Shots must be called as explained in 1.6 Standard Call Shot. The shooter may call “safety” in which case play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot and any object ball pocketed on the safety is spotted.

1.6 Standard Call Shot
In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot.

For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call.

In call shot games, the shooter may choose to call “safety” instead of a ball and pocket, and then play passes to the opponent at the end of the shot. Whether balls are being spotted after safeties depends on the rules of the particular game.


It sounds like there were many unsportsmanship actions throughout the match by both players, but because I did not see any videos on those antics as I did for the shot in question, no comment. I just wanted to share the "official" rules for all that were questioning Wedge. Of course, Charlie has been known to make things up as he goes.

Dave

 

[The-Professor]

On more than one occasion, I've seen my opponent down and ready to pull the trigger on the 4 ball when the 3 is still on the table. (9 ball) I tell them "Hey, you'd better shoot the 3 first." They get off the shot and realize I saved them from a foul. It's called sportsmanship.
Would I do it at 8-8 going to 9? Yes, but I also feel it's wrong for a spectator to do it.
I just don't want a tainted win.

This sounds like the voice of reason to me!

 

[HoldemRw]

Iam having hard time believing people are siding with Jayson here. And iam not a,earl fan matter fact this Prolly only time I agree with him.
There seems to be no argument that earl was definately not going for the 2 ball so if that's the case I will bet a million dollars if u watch entire match there are several instances where neither player calls a ball because it's obvious why no foul calls on those shots the excuse i keep hearing for Jayson is its 14.1 u call all ur shots. If u going follow rules strictly follow all of them don't let 20 fouls slide by and only call the last one when game is on the line

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[owll]

Jason wasn't trying to win on bull...t, all Jason expected was that the rule be enforced. Earl clearly called the 2 ball and yes he may have been shooting the 10 but rules are in place for a reason and this is not just a weekly event. THIS is a world championship and if players can't follow the rules and directors can't enforce the rules than what is the point in even having rules. Bottom line is earl is a creep always has been and always will be. He causes so much drama to the game and he is a cheater. Very simple.

if someone calls a ball, then when they are getting down on a shot, they POINT at the TARGET ball and TARGET pocket...it's pretty obvious what they are shooting and where...and for Jayson to jump and immediately started crying that he called 2 ball first....YES, that is a bullshit and nit move......Watch the video, one of the last things earl does is point to ball and pocket when he is getting down, and 2 ball isnt anywhere near that.....Jayson was trying to win on bullshit.

 

[pwd72s]

if someone calls a ball, then when they are getting down on a shot, they POINT at the TARGET ball and TARGET pocket...it's pretty obvious what they are shooting and where...and for Jayson to jump and immediately started crying that he called 2 ball first....YES, that is a bullshit and nit move......Watch the video, one of the last things earl does is point to ball and pocket when he is getting down, and 2 ball isnt anywhere near that.....Jayson was trying to win on bullshit.

So..Jayson conceded, right? Shouldn't that end it?

 

[justaplayer]

The biggest problem in pro pool is the attitudes and actions of certain players. Guys who go out of their way to taunt, shark and cry their way into a win. Their negativity fuels them.

It's bad for pool overall. The racking wars and squabbling over rules are turning off even diehard pool fans. It's killing the growth of the game too. Who wants to bring a child or non playing friend to watch two adults ***** about racks and rolls?

Without a central governing body that can police misbehavior, I think we've lost the war.

 

[AlienObserver]

Most of you say that you point out to your opponent if he is about to play the wrong ball etc etc.
The big difference is that you are not profesionals, you play this game out of love for it. To be a profesional you need to be good at the game AND the technicalities.

Imagine if a surgeon relied on the observation skills of one of his helpers to point out to him that he forgot to do something. He might be a good surgeon, but he would loose a patien once in a while.

Point is that to be a profesional you have to be good at everything, either this be technique or technicalities.

That being said, I am not a profesional, I'm not playing in the pro tour so I have pointed out to my opponent when he was about to shoot the wrong ball. BUT when my opponent points out to me that I'm about to shoot the wrong ball, I give him ball in hand and refuse to continue shooting (if I'm forced to shoot the cue ball, I shoot it on the rail, not making any contact with an object ball). Why? Because I was about to make a mistake, and soooooo many times in the pool world you will hear that this game is not played against your opponent but against yourself. I failed to read the table corectly, so I deserve to be punished for it.

 

[Dunnn51]

Thank You

"The official rule : If the Player or Referee (as in traditional 14.1 matches) calls the incorrect ball number on an obvious shot, the obvious shot and pocket called supersedes the mistaken numeric call." *in the case with Mr. Strickland's shot, it was obvious to the referee as well as the entire audience he was attempting to shoot the 10ball. He also indicated the shot with his cue beforehand during video replay. Furthermore, the mistaken ball called was the 2ball , which looked unplayable inside the stack with no obvious pocket. Furthermore, the earlier call should have also been in favor of Mr. Strickland on the first obvious shot call. *3 experienced 14.1 experts and officials unanimously agreed on all the above. * We would like to add that we encourage good sportsmanship first and gentlemanly conduct by all players. This includes the "Gentleman's Call" rule on obvious shots.

Wedge

Thanks for posting this to clear the matter somewhat.
Both players seemed to lose the "Gentleman's honor" aspect in this match - no big surprise given their character(s).

BOTH Players failed to meet the conduct of a decent match :

Earl by his reputed soft shark actions (which Shaw cannot fade)

Shaw by his conduct after the decision made by the TD. (total lack of respect for authority )

I am not any professional on 14.1 by far, But I do recognize the game is a Gentleman's game. Apparently there were none present playing this match. :frown:

 

[blah blah]

There are so many threads on this I wasn't sure where to ask-
Does anyone have a link to the final list of names, places, and payouts on this event?