Yet again... another aiming question

P

papercut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My apologies for starting a thread that has already been beaten to death.

Quick question:

So you have aimed up the shot with whatever method works and are down to pull the trigger. Where do you FOCUS your eyes at the moment of truth on, let's say, a cut shot:

1) Edge of object ball (realizing, of course, that you are not stroking at that point)
2) A spot on the cloth at ghost ball location
3) A spot on the cloth before ghost ball location
4) A spot on the cloth past ghost ball location
5) Blurred focus by visualizing on a ghost ball that isn't actually there
6) Nothing (eyes darting between ghost ball, object ball, pocket)
7) Other

I'm trying to get a sense on whether top players who "just feel the shot" are focusing their eyes somewhere tangible (i.e. something on which allows your eyes to focus) and, if so, what that tangible thing is. If it isn't tangible, is the vision just blurred (i.e. imagine focusing on an imaginary item 2 feet from your head... see how your vision blurs?), are are the eyes just darting around?

Thanks!
 
papercut said:
My apologies for starting a thread that has already been beaten to death.

Quick question:

So you have aimed up the shot with whatever method works and are down to pull the trigger. Where do you FOCUS your eyes at the moment of truth on, let's say, a cut shot:

1) Edge of object ball (realizing, of course, that you are not stroking at that point)
2) A spot on the cloth at ghost ball location
3) A spot on the cloth before ghost ball location
4) A spot on the cloth past ghost ball location
5) Blurred focus by visualizing on a ghost ball that isn't actually there
6) Nothing (eyes darting between ghost ball, object ball, pocket)
7) Other

I'm trying to get a sense on whether top players who "just feel the shot" are focusing their eyes somewhere tangible (i.e. something on which allows your eyes to focus) and, if so, what that tangible thing is. If it isn't tangible, is the vision just blurred (i.e. imagine focusing on an imaginary item 2 feet from your head... see how your vision blurs?), are are the eyes just darting around?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Where I want to hit the object ball.

Jim
 
it has been my experience, that most pro players that i have talked to, or played with........focus on the contact point on the object ball last.

that doesn't mean all or most pro's do this, just most that i've had contact with.

thanks

VAP
 
papercut said:
I'm trying to get a sense on whether top players who "just feel the shot" are focusing their eyes somewhere tangible (i.e. something on which allows your eyes to focus) and, if so, what that tangible thing is. If it isn't tangible, is the vision just blurred (i.e. imagine focusing on an imaginary item 2 feet from your head... see how your vision blurs?), are are the eyes just darting around?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


There are also a lot of top players that "aim the shot" while they're "feeling" it and unless it's a masse, break shot, or right against the rail, will focus in on a very specific part of the OB last...I'd like to know where so called "non-aimer"s look if they're not aiming also (as you stated above)...and why they choose what they do?
Seems to me if you don't do ANYTHING to aim, you could be looking at some hottie across the room as you pull the trigger.
 
drivermaker said:
There are also a lot of top players that "aim the shot" while they're "feeling" it and unless it's a masse, break shot, or right against the rail, will focus in on a very specific part of the OB last...I'd like to know where so called "non-aimer"s look if they're not aiming also (as you stated above)...and why they choose what they do?
Seems to me if you don't do ANYTHING to aim, you could be looking at some hottie across the room as you pull the trigger.
Click to expand...


Well, EVERYONE aims. The underlying difference is that some make conscious calculations as to where they should put the cue-ball while others rely on their instincts. Actually, to a certain extent, we all rely on our instincts but some are more guided than others. A "non-aimer" is guiding less than a "ghost-ball aimer". When you fall into dead-stroke and feel as though you don't need to do anything, that's unguided aiming. When you're struggling and feel you constantly need to make adjustments, that's heavily guided.

Personally, I think every pool player should spend a day by themselves hitting balls without any system. They should simply see what happens when they hit the spot that feels right, that feels centered. A lot happens when the subconscious is battling the conscious mind. So much so that it's difficult to even look at the results and make a proper assessment of what went wrong. You may be set to under-cut a ball and make a massive adjustment that causes you to over-cut and vice versa.

You must always remember that on every shot, the goal is simply to hit the cue-ball to that spot with the right speed and spin. It really is that simple. To do so successfully, you need to feel centered on each and every shot. Sometimes, being centered isn't always consistent with what your aiming method has devised as the proper contact reference. In instances like these, I feel it's best to go with your instincts. This is what is meant by "not aiming".
 
I wonder why nobody has mentioned this.
Pros shoot to control the cb in every shot.
So, they HAVE to know the tangent line before going down on the shot.
So, wouldn't it make sense for the player to line up according to the tangent line ( his body and the angle of the shaft )then send the cueball where when it meets the o.b., it will travel where he/she intended to send it after contact.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I wonder why nobody has mentioned this.
Pros shoot to control the cb in every shot.
So, they HAVE to know the tangent line before going down on the shot.
So, wouldn't it make sense for the player to line up according to the tangent line ( his body and the angle of the shaft )then send the cueball where when it meets the o.b., it will travel where he/she intended to send it after contact.
Click to expand...
Nobody mentioned that because it's stupid :p :D
J/K
If you stop and watch some people that you would consider "lesser players" than you (this means anybody reading this) they just jump down and fire away.
Its amazing to see just how many people don't line up on the shot before they get down on the shot.
 
to much stuff for me ...

You simply aim the object ball towards the pocket, and that is the spot to hit
the object ball.

When you first start out, you see the whole ball and a spot about the
size of a half dollar.

As you get better, the spot becomes about like a quarter.
As you get even better, it is the size of about a dime.
As you get even better, it is about half the size of a dime.
As you get real good, it becomes about the size of a beebe.

You go through a learning process where you train yourself to focus
more and more on a smaller target for more accuracy. Most shots
won't necessarily be the size of a beebe, but the difficult ones that
need exact precision will be.
 
Snapshot9 said:
You simply aim the object ball towards the pocket, and that is the spot to hit
the object ball.

.
Click to expand...

well then, how do you figure out what spot on the cue ball has to hit the spot on the object ball?


VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
well then, how do you figure out what spot on the cue ball has to hit the spot on the object ball?


VAP
Click to expand...


You know, I think all you guys think too much. JUST HIT THE BALL AND WILL IT TO GO IN! Actually, you'll be surprised by what you're capable of when you don't clutter your mind with so many thoughts.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
You know, I think all you guys think too much. JUST HIT THE BALL AND WILL IT TO GO IN! Actually, you'll be surprised by what you're capable of when you don't clutter your mind with so many thoughts.
Click to expand...


lol.....i was just asking him because he always makes it sound like he's got the answer to everything.

you are right though, best thing to do when you're playing is to not think.

i just bought an Ipod recently, and i love it, i just pay attention to music while i play, and i tend to get in stroke a little quicker.

VAP
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
You know, I think all you guys think too much. JUST HIT THE BALL AND WILL IT TO GO IN! Actually, you'll be surprised by what you're capable of when you don't clutter your mind with so many thoughts.
Click to expand...
I have a better idea.
Use the ghost ball aiming system.
Line up to it and shoot thru it.
Stay down and watch where you sent the cb.
You'd be surprised, most misses are due to a bad stroke.
You miss more often due to mishitting the cueball than bad aiming imo ( assuming you line up right ).
 
vapoolplayer said:
lol.....i was just asking him because he always makes it sound like he's got the answer to everything.

you are right though, best thing to do when you're playing is to not think.

i just bought an Ipod recently, and i love it, i just pay attention to music while i play, and i tend to get in stroke a little quicker.

VAP
Click to expand...


Yeah, those iPods have become rather popular in poolrooms. Honestly, there are a lot of organizations that ban them so I don't think it's the wisest decision to use one while practicing. I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to them so I'll never condone their use.
 
vapoolplayer said:
well then, how do you figure out what spot on the cue ball has to hit the spot on the object ball?


VAP
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem. The reason for the discussion. Without this problem I think everyone would aim the same way.

The problem?

That illusive spot on the cue ball that must hit the object ball. The problem is, you can't see it. The only thing you can do is feel it or estimate it.
 
very funny ...

Trick question ... right ... The cue ball is rolling depending on the type
of english you put on it.

There is no-aim method. Everyone aims, and basically they do it the same
way, they just describe a 100 different ways.

I used to practice rolling ball shots all the time ... You know where both
are in the kitchen. You roll the object ball down table and try to pocket
it once it passes the head spot on the fly. I was very good at it at one
time, having made 12 in a row before on a 9 footer (I always heard the record was 11 in a row for pros). On a 7 footer, I am still pretty good. I did, on some occasions, use it to intimidate an upcoming opponent who had a big
mouth on him. Some people can instantly aim, and others can not, even
the best of players can not necessarily shoot rolling ball shots.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I have a better idea.
Use the ghost ball aiming system.
Line up to it and shoot thru it.
Stay down and watch where you sent the cb.
You'd be surprised, most misses are due to a bad stroke.
You miss more often due to mishitting the cueball than bad aiming imo ( assuming you line up right ).
Click to expand...


Actually Joey, most mishits can be attributed to bad aiming. It really is a chicken & the egg thing but the fact remains, your subconscious already knows the proper contact point. If your aiming technique doesn't match up with what your subconscious already knows, there's no way you're going to stroke the ball well.

In my opinion, the ghost-ball is the training-wheels of pool. Eventually, you have to get off of it and begin to trust your own personal method. Developing a personal method takes time. You need to find a shot you consistently have trouble with and learn why you're missing. You are right about one thing. The stroke is key and should be viewed as feedback. If you feel you're veering off, obviously there's something about your aiming-method that doesn't feel centered.

When I'm teaching intermediate or advanced students, I always tell them to look at the object ball and hit the point that feels "natural" which isn't always what looks correct. Depth perception can play funny tricks. Most artificial aiming techniques (like the ghost ball) aren't going to easily compensate for that. Your subconscious is a direct link to the most powerful computer on the planet. You might as well use it.
 
Snapshot9 said:
I used to practice rolling ball shots all the time ... You know where both
are in the kitchen. You roll the object ball down table and try to pocket
it once it passes the head spot on the fly. I was very good at it at one
time, having made 12 in a row before on a 9 footer (I always heard the record was 11 in a row for pros). On a 7 footer, I am still pretty good. I did, on some occasions, use it to intimidate an upcoming opponent who had a big
mouth on him. Some people can instantly aim, and others can not, even
the best of players can not necessarily shoot rolling ball shots.
Click to expand...


We called it wing shooting. Definately instinctive. I used to practice all the time and could get 5 or 6 in a row. Never 12.

I had forgotton all about that, thanks for the memories.

Jim
 
Snapshot9 said:
Trick question ... right ... The cue ball is rolling depending on the type
of english you put on it.

There is no-aim method. Everyone aims, and basically they do it the same
way, they just describe a 100 different ways.

I used to practice rolling ball shots all the time ... You know where both
are in the kitchen. You roll the object ball down table and try to pocket
it once it passes the head spot on the fly. I was very good at it at one
time, having made 12 in a row before on a 9 footer (I always heard the record was 11 in a row for pros). On a 7 footer, I am still pretty good. I did, on some occasions, use it to intimidate an upcoming opponent who had a big
mouth on him. Some people can instantly aim, and others can not, even
the best of players can not necessarily shoot rolling ball shots.
Click to expand...


That's called a wing-shot and actually, I think that's an awesome illustration of what someone is capable of when allowing their subconscious to take over. You're hitting a moving object which is simply unheard of in pool. To do so with any consistency shows that artificial aiming-methods are not as reliable as the human subconscious.
 
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