Yet again... another aiming question

[vapoolplayer]

OK...cash with proper identification. No charge cards, paypal, or trades.

sweet, i'll drive down today.......that offer was for your hercek by the way........thanks, see you in a few hours.

i'm gonna need a receipt too.

VAP

 

[drivermaker]

sweet, i'll drive down today.......that offer was for your hercek by the way........thanks, see you in a few hours.

i'm gonna need a receipt too.

VAP

No problem...head straight down I-95 until you hit NC and go for about 150 miles. You'll come to a stop sign and you can go only left or right. Make a left....drive another 200 miles or so and you'll see a long stretch of sand and large body of water well out into the distance....just keep driving. Call me if you get lost....

 

[JoeyInCali]

I am working on an invention for all contact point users. It's a telescopic lens that fits on top of the shaft just like a rifle, has crosshairs and a 10 power lens that'll bring the contact point right up to the tip of your nose as you look through it. The vertical crosshair will also be adjustable from side to side and calibrated based on the number of tips of english to be used, or calculate the amount of deflection from a chart listing all cuemakers shafts that have been pretested and logged. That will be in the first version...the second version will have a microchip that calculates all of it automatically.
I'm doing all of the contact point research now with Hal.
Do you wish to preorder?

OH, PLEASE put my name on serial number 001.
I'll start dropping coins on my Googan Piggy Bank until 001 is completed.

 

[JLW]

That's all part of the training. The book, "The Inner Game of Tennis" talks about just that. You keep hitting what you think is the correct spot until you subconsciously begin to make the adjustments. In other words, keep doing it the same way and eventually, it'll start to work.

Trust me, my approach to aiming isn't something that can be incorporated overnight. It takes dozens, if not hundreds of hours of practice but it truly is euphoric. Not only do you gain a level of certainty but it also allows your conscious mind to concentrate on other things like position play. Especially over the past six months, pocketing has become so natural for me that I can think about the woman in the short skirt on the adjacent table stretching over her table to take a shot while I drop the 9-ball. My conscious mind is now focused on my pre-shot routine, focusing on what I need to do to put my body in-line for the shot. Nothing more (except for the woman playing at the adjacent table).

If you watch ANY of the great players on tape, you'll notice there's little fretting over how to pocket a ball. They may take their time but they're thinking more about where they want the cue-ball to go and how to do it rather than actually making the ball. If you watch Reyes, his eyes look completely relaxed while he's shooting. There's no squinting. There's no intense examination of the object ball. He looks. He fires. He pockets. He moves on. That's it. You think Reyes is looking at light reflections or ghost balls? No. He's just looking at the ball and hitting it.

These systems that have been devised over the years are products that have been produced, reproduced, edited and regurgitated by instructors wishing to systemize pocketing in such a manner that a beginner can understand. What they fail to mention is that there are flaws to this approach. It's robotic. It may point the shooter in the right direction but it doesn't make any sort of compensation for the hundreds (if not thousands) of experiences the brain has already amassed. The human brain is the most remarkable tool ever created but its true capabilities cannot be tapped through robotic, conscious thought. The conscious mind can only think of a half-dozen things at once (a dozen if you're female). The subconscious handles several hundred-thousand commands a nano-second from breathing to walking, to picking up a pencil. Hell, it still takes NASA YEARS (and millions of dollars) to develop a robot that can do those tasks. My two year old niece has no problem!

Your hand-eye coordination is something that has been in development LONG BEFORE there was a system for shooting pool. In fact, when you think about it, it's almost silly to think that a system could even come close to what nature has already provided. It's the silver bullet every beginner looks for. It's the key to all answers. TRUST YOURSELF. JUST LET IT HAPPEN and it will. It still takes training. You can't assume that you can switch without any training but if you commit yourself to the approach, it won't be long until you already see the fruits of your labor.

Jude,

I couldn't agree more. I think most players would be shocked at how accurately they could shoot if they just trusted their stroke (provided they have good fundamentals) and didn't agonize over how to line up every shot. I was playing snooker with a friend of mine a few days ago. He's not so great a player, so, for fun, I started shooting some shots off the rail one handed. And, I made a pretty high percentage of the shots. It is truly amazing what your body can do if you are relaxed and trust your training and instincts.

 

[HittMan]

"in-stroke"

Jude,

I couldn't agree more. I think most players would be shocked at how accurately they could shoot if they just trusted their stroke (provided they have good fundamentals) and didn't agonize over how to line up every shot. It is truly amazing what your body can do if you are relaxed and trust your training and instincts.

If we carefully examine all of the posts to this question it might look something like this:

Papercut - How do I learn to aim? My eyes are driving me crazy...to much to look at...what do I look at last?

VAPP - the contact point on the object ball

DM - the contact point on the object ball.

WW - the object ball with guidance from ghost ball technique and a 3D visualization of the point of contact.

Jude - you gotta find the groove...practice...don't rely on calculation...it's in there...bring it out...simple.

Joey - aim from the tangent line to control CB

BigJon - just aim...don't be stupid.

Snap - line up with the pocket

VAPP - How do you know you're lined up?

Jude - clear your noodle dude.

VAPP - agreed...cleanse your thoughts.

DM - "jabs at the transverse wave disciples" (his favorite passtime)

Joey - use the ghost ball and work on your technique...that's wht you're missing.

Cap't - you can't see the other side of the ball

Snap - practice on moving balls.

Jude - clear you noodle and your stroke...feel the force.

VAAP - training is the key

Flex - Ok...here's my mantra...see if it works for you.

Mung - What happens when the force fucks you? Do you still trust it?

Jude - getting fucked is part of the training...enjoy the ride...practice more joyfully.

Papercut - thanks? I'll give it a try.

Pete - see the point and the path.

***various off-topics responses deleted***

Whew...that was really fun...no offense intended...to anyone...really.

I guess what I saw briefly was a common thread in all the responses that was predicated upon where each poster was as a player at the moment. All I wanted to say is that learning to play well is a process for most people. Those with natural talent enter the updraft at a higher point. Most players I have observed and talked to have developed techniques (crutches) AND most will later discard these for better techniques later. I liken it to passing mileposts on a roadtrip. I have tried to study the elusive condition of "in-stroke" for more years than I like to admit...I first felt it wash over me in the early 70's but could not make it stay(or for that matter show up, sometimes)...I've seen it wash over many, many players since then...and watched it disappear...every time. What I would like to know is not so much how you guys aim but what brings on "in-stroke" for you...how do you know it's coming (except that you quit missing and keep getting straight in)...AND how do you make it stay? I have been able to increase it's frequency and duration, but not enough to satisfy me. Anyone care to share their experience with the abyss.

 

[drivermaker]

If we carefully examine all of the posts to this question it might look something like this:

Papercut - How do I learn to aim? My eyes are driving me crazy...to much to look at...what do I look at last?

VAPP - the contact point on the object ball

DM - the contact point on the object ball.

WW - the object ball with guidance from ghost ball technique and a 3D visualization of the point of contact.

Jude - you gotta find the groove...practice...don't rely on calculation...it's in there...bring it out...simple.

Joey - aim from the tangent line to control CB

BigJon - just aim...don't be stupid.

Snap - line up with the pocket

VAPP - How do you know you're lined up?

Jude - clear your noodle dude.

VAPP - agreed...cleanse your thoughts.

DM - "jabs at the transverse wave disciples" (his favorite passtime)

Joey - use the ghost ball and work on your technique...that's wht you're missing.

Cap't - you can't see the other side of the ball

Snap - practice on moving balls.

Jude - clear you noodle and your stroke...feel the force.

VAAP - training is the key

Flex - Ok...here's my mantra...see if it works for you.

Mung - What happens when the force fucks you? Do you still trust it?

Jude - getting fucked is part of the training...enjoy the ride...practice more joyfully.

Papercut - thanks? I'll give it a try.

Pete - see the point and the path.

***various off-topics responses deleted***

Whew...that was really fun...no offense intended...to anyone...really.

I guess what I saw briefly was a common thread in all the responses that was predicated upon where each poster was as a player at the moment. All I wanted to say is that learning to play well is a process for most people. Those with natural talent enter the updraft at a higher point. Most players I have observed and talked to have developed techniques (crutches) AND most will later discard these for better techniques later. I liken it to passing mileposts on a roadtrip. I have tried to study the elusive condition of "in-stroke" for more years than I like to admit...I first felt it wash over me in the early 70's but could not make it stay(or for that matter show up, sometimes)...I've seen it wash over many, many players since then...and watched it disappear...every time. What I would like to know is not so much how you guys aim but what brings on "in-stroke" for you...how do you know it's coming (except that you quit missing and keep getting straight in)...AND how do you make it stay? I have been able to increase it's frequency and duration, but not enough to satisfy me. Anyone care to share their experience with the abyss.

OK...here's the key...the real secret...are you ready for it....think you can handle it.....Jude was on to it but it's not quite what he said....here it is....
PLAY WITH YOUR NOODLE, DUDE.....

 

[JLW]

I have tried to study the elusive condition of "in-stroke" for more years than I like to admit...I first felt it wash over me in the early 70's but could not make it stay(or for that matter show up, sometimes)...I've seen it wash over many, many players since then...and watched it disappear...every time. What I would like to know is not so much how you guys aim but what brings on "in-stroke" for you...how do you know it's coming (except that you quit missing and keep getting straight in)...AND how do you make it stay? I have been able to increase it's frequency and duration, but not enough to satisfy me. Anyone care to share their experience with the abyss.

HittMan,

I have tried many aiming techniques, and what I ultimately found was that I shoot just as well when I don't over think my aiming (and yes, before anyone jumps on this, I DO AIM). Personally, I just don't think it's that difficult for an experienced player to line up most shots (there are some exceptions of course, but I'm talking about basic cut shots here). I think a lot of it comes down to your attitude toward the game. I think the more relaxed and focused you are, the higher your make percentage will be and the better your overall play will be. I believe many players get "analysis paralysis" when playing. They have so much invested in their playing ability as it relates to their sense of self worth that they become afraid to screw up. So they agonize over things that would come naturally if they were relaxed. Pool should be fun. My experience has been that I play my best when I try to enjoy every shot and give myself permission to be human rather than kill myself over every miss or mistake.

As far as what specifically brings on being "in stroke", the best thing I ever did for my aim was to buy a table. This allowed me to pocket literally thousands of balls a day. IMHO, if your fundamentals are sound, the best way to get "in stroke" is to pocket as many balls as you can.

 

[Flex]

Yesterday, I was given a rack of balls and a table with tight pockets at a local pool hall. Had a really tough time pocketing balls. Oh, not the easy ones, the slightly more difficult ones. Sometimes they went in perfectly, sometimes they hit the nipple. What is going on?? I set up again and tried to do everything exactly the same. Again, strange results. Know what it was?? The doggone balls came from at least 3 different sets of balls. And did they play differently, or what?

Take a guess...

Flex

 

[Flex]

Here's a hustle someone passed along to me... Before playing 8 ball, clean one of the sets, either the stripes or the solids, and leave the other balls as they were... They WILL play differently.

Here's another. Take the game ball, whether it's the 8 or the 9, before the match, and give it a light coating of nose grease...

And a third... be sure to put out chalk at the table that looks quite new, but has been fixed. How do you "fix" chalk? Pour some 7-UP on it and let it dry. That chalk won't play the same as the good stuff...

I wonder why people tell me these little tricks...

Moral of the story: have your own chalk, that comes out of your own pocket and goes back in after each shot. Be sure the balls are uniformly clean, or dirty. Wipe chalk dust off the cue ball every time you get ball in hand or the break... Common sense stuff that just may help you win...

And if an object ball throws incredibly crazily, you can bet there was something on it: chalk, dust, or maybe your opponent's grease from the french fries he just wolfed down...

Flex

 

[TheConArtist]

I have to agree on trusting your learning, and feel of the shot. I had this one guy that stuck out his tongue, closed one eye, held his breathe, etc... cause he thought it would make the ball go in the pocket lol, Ghostball, clicks the holy light system, it doesn't matter what you use, just as long as it works for you, and that you are comfortable. Me i use the clicks system by the monk. Cole 'TheConArtist'

 

[Flex]

What exactly is "the clicks system by the monk"?

 

[TheConArtist]

What exactly is "the clicks system by the monk"?

well as the monk explains it, there are four clicks from the center of the objectball to the edge, one of these clicks will pocket the ball into a pocket, if i am going to shoot the objectball to the right i find the click from the left of the center of the objectball then i find the exact click on the cueball and match these points up, of course you have to compensate english, throw, curve, and squirt. If it is two clicks then i find the exact click on the cueball etc..., hard to explain, but from the center to the edge there is four clicks the edge would be the fourth click, Cole 'TheConArtist'

 

[drivermaker]

well as the monk explains it, there are four clicks from the center of the objectball to the edge, one of these clicks will pocket the ball into a pocket, if i am going to shoot the objectball to the right i find the click from the left of the center of the objectball then i find the exact click on the cueball and match these points up, of course you have to compensate english, throw, curve, and squirt. If it is two clicks then i find the exact click on the cueball etc..., hard to explain, but from the center to the edge there is four clicks the edge would be the fourth click, Cole 'TheConArtist'

In essence...it's a combination of a sectional aiming system and the equal and opposite aiming system.

It's a quick calculation between brain and eyes that tell us how to hit the ball and the longer you play the game and the more balls you pocket, the faster this thought process comes about almost without realizing it, whether it's the method above or something else. But it's still AIMING and a method.

For all of you wing shooters...hey...I started doing wing shots when I was 15 and made them. That's not about aiming or the lack of aiming. That's about superior hand/eye coordination and also a real good indicator if someone has extra special talent or ability to begin with for the game. It's not like every hack or recreational player can do that even once.

The BEST wing shots that I've seen in my entire life was most recently when FL sent a video to me of a variety of his trick shots. He rolled an OB down the table....then bounced the CB off or a rubber mat on the floor away from the table...and then shot the CB in mid-air to make the rolling ball.

Then, he rolled TWO BALLS down table simultaneously almost side by side....bounced the CB off the mat on the floor and shot making BOTH BALLS by splitting them into two different corner pockets.

A third one that he did was a called 4-rail bank on the same shot by bouncing it off the floor and shooting the CB in mid-air. He rolled it down table...but instead of cutting it into the far corner pocket, banked it 4 rails into the pocket.

THAT TAKES TALENT AND SUPERIOR HAND/EYE COORDINATION.

But I don't think anyone on here that had $2,000 riding on a hill-hill match with the $2 grand coming out of your own pocket if you lost as you were down to the final 9-ball on the table with a long ass cut...would get down on it without VERY CAREFULLY AIMING the SOB. Anybody want to "wing" a $2,000 final 9-ball shot for the win? LMAO

 

[vapoolplayer]

The BEST wing shots that I've seen in my entire life was most recently when FL sent a video to me of a variety of his trick shots. He rolled an OB down the table....then bounced the CB off or a rubber mat on the floor away from the table...and then shot the CB in mid-air to make the rolling ball.

Then, he rolled TWO BALLS down table simultaneously almost side by side....bounced the CB off the mat on the floor and shot making BOTH BALLS by splitting them into two different corner pockets.

A third one that he did was a called 4-rail bank on the same shot by bouncing it off the floor and shooting the CB in mid-air. He rolled it down table...but instead of cutting it into the far corner pocket, banked it 4 rails into the pocket.

THAT TAKES TALENT AND SUPERIOR HAND/EYE COORDINATION.

i'd just like to say that DM is NOT bullshitting here.......i've seen the tape, and i think my jaw was on the floor for about 15 minutes. i've seen and shot wing shots........but NOTHING like that man did. i've have never, and probably will never see anyone make that shot again as long as i live.

FL has total respect from me as a player after seeing that tape.

VAP

 

[drivermaker]

i'd just like to say that DM is NOT bullshitting here.......i've seen the tape, and i think my jaw was on the floor for about 15 minutes. i've seen and shot wing shots........but NOTHING like that man did. i've have never, and probably will never see anyone make that shot again as long as i live.

FL has total respect from me as a player after seeing that tape.

VAP

VAP...all I can tell you is that YOU and I have just placed ourselves on everyone's (primarily FL haters) shit list for complimenting and recognizing FL and his accomplishments. They'll still say that it was trick photography and he's a fraud. I could care less.........

 

[vapoolplayer]

VAP...all I can tell you is that YOU and I have just placed ourselves on everyone's (primarily FL haters) shit list for complimenting and recognizing FL and his accomplishments. They'll still say that it was trick photography and he's a fraud. I could care less.........

all i can say is fu&% em.......bring their money.......i'll lose everything i own betting on that man shooting shots like that. i don't care if he attempted that shot 2 billion times.........hitting it once is more than most any human on earth will ever do.

VAP

 

[Flex]

all i can say is fu&% em.......bring their money.......i'll lose everything i own betting on that man shooting shots like that. i don't care if he attempted that shot 2 billion times.........hitting it once is more than most any human on earth will ever do.

VAP

When I first came on AZ and posted a few nice comments about FL, did the **** hit the fan, or what?? It did, big time.

I too have the tape you mention, actually, I have six of them that I won on his forum in the weekly contest he was putting on a while ago.

I also took a lesson from him about a month ago, and asked him to straighten out my stroke, nothing more.

In about 10 minutes, that's right, you read it right, TEN MINUTES, he had me stroking the cue ball perfectly straight, rolling the cue ball up and down the table one handed, perfectly.

Some of the folks who saw me taking that lesson at Chris's in Chicago came by to watch, and told me no more spot for me.

Has my game improved since then? Sure has... The man's a genius...

Doubters should get one of his tapes and watch for themselves. He shoots the shots many times, sometimes in public, other times not. What you'll see will knock your socks off.

Best,

Flex

 

[TheConArtist]

The BEST wing shots that I've seen in my entire life was most recently when FL sent a video to me of a variety of his trick shots. He rolled an OB down the table....then bounced the CB off or a rubber mat on the floor away from the table...and then shot the CB in mid-air to make the rolling ball.

Then, he rolled TWO BALLS down table simultaneously almost side by side....bounced the CB off the mat on the floor and shot making BOTH BALLS by splitting them into two different corner pockets.

A third one that he did was a called 4-rail bank on the same shot by bouncing it off the floor and shooting the CB in mid-air. He rolled it down table...but instead of cutting it into the far corner pocket, banked it 4 rails into the pocket.

Omg , man i wished i could see that video, that sounds like amazing to see, the best thing or exhibition i ever seen was some guy can't remember his name someone posted it on this forum the three cushion trick shot artist guy, but i agree with the hand and eye cordination, Its all about feel, everyone has a different aiming system or how they shoot, just as long as it works for them right. Cole 'TheConArtist'

 

[guygrandmont]

Aiming System

So what happens if the "natural" spot doesn't pocket the ball? Or is there a certain level of play where that becomes impossible?

For me there are some cut shots, probably between 50 and 70 degrees, that I line up with ghost ball. They look wrong from behind the CB, and feel wrong, but the ball goes in. I have to just trust that I lined it up right the first time, because if I go by instinct I'll hit the OB too fat.

Is my subconscious simply wrong, or am I feeding it bad informaton somewhere?

What you need is a professional aiming system. The two best in the world are CENTER TO EDGE, and THREE LINES.

Guy

 

[TheConArtist]

What you need is a professional aiming system. The two best in the world are CENTER TO EDGE, and THREE LINES.

Guy

you were asking what aiming system i use, somewhat of what you sorta said here, center to edge, Cole.