CaptainJR said:
W R O N G
i think joe tucker would have something to say about that.
i seriously suggest you look into his aiming by the numbers training balls.
it trains you to ACTUALLY SEE the spot on THE CUE BALL.
thanks
VAP
Yet again... another aiming question
- Thread starter papercut
- Start date
W R O N G
i think joe tucker would have something to say about that.
i seriously suggest you look into his aiming by the numbers training balls.
it trains you to ACTUALLY SEE the spot on THE CUE BALL.
thanks
VAP
drivermaker
Banned
vapoolplayer said:
What in God's name would possibly make you think he'd listen...I suggested it yesterday. He must think we're tag teaming him now to screw up his game for the bet.
Last edited:
I'm convinced. 
Ok, here goes. I use a modified point-of-light aiming system for many of my shots. I modify it depending on the way I'll shoot the cue ball, whether it's with draw, stun, rolling, follow, and with or without english.
Here's the way I've figured out how to make this thing work for me, and depending on the cue and cue ball/object ball combination, it all changes. Anyways...
The first thing I'll do when warming up is set up a moderate cut shot, something between 30 and 45 degrees, with the object ball say 2 diamonds from a corner pocket, and the cue ball about a diamond away. I find the specific point in the pocket I want the cue ball to go and imagine a laser light from that specific point straight from that point coming back through the object ball dead center, and see that imaginary laser point on the object ball. Then I'll put the tip of my cue on the cloth approximately 1/2 inch to 3/4 of an inch away, hold it there, angle my cue over to where the cue ball is, and dead center the cue shaft over the cue ball, use that line for my initial angling and shoot a dead center, medium stroke shot, rolling the cue ball to the object ball. It may go in, it may not. What I'm doing is getting a feel for the angle necessary with this shot to pot the object ball exactly to the point I wish it to go. Obviously, if your stroke is not straight this systematic approach won't be consistent. If I don't pot the object ball in the right spot in the pocket, I'll set the exact same shot up again, and make an adjustment to where that point in front of the object ball is, until I get it down perfectly. Once I have that down, I memorize the exact location of the cue tip on the cloth to make that shot sing. Next, I'll set up the exact same shot, but this time shoot the shot with a force follow. Try this and you'll see that the object ball will most likely throw to the inside and you'll miss the shot. How do you fix this? Well, just make that aiming point on the cloth before the object ball a bit closer to the object ball. In essence you will be hitting the object ball a bit fuller, to counteract the throw. Once it pots perfectly, memorize the exact location of that point your aiming at. Then do the same thing with the shot but with draw. You'll find the aiming point will again vary, because of throw, but this time, your adjustment will differ again.
All this is just with a center ball hit!
Once you get this down, and adjust to the balls and the table and so on, this method is pretty accurate. If you find you need to shoot with a powerful force follow, or a scorching draw shot, you'll know what to do. Add english to it, and get ready for more adjustments.
How does this work, at least for me? VERY well, and if my alignment is on, and the shot is grooved, that object ball is going down.
About a week ago, I tested this aiming and stroking system out, on a 9 foot table, shooting about a 30 degree cut shot as described above, but I moved the object ball further away from the corner pocket. It was probably about 3 1/2 diamonds or so away, and the cue ball was probably about 2 diamonds away from the object ball. I say "probably" because I varied the shot in different ways for 6 shots.
I did my aiming as described, set up for a powerful force follow, grooved my stroke, turned my head away and didn't look at the shot, powered the cue ball and heard the object ball smack dead into the pocket. I moved the balls around a bit, aimed and set up for a powerful draw shot, grooved my stroke, looked away, let 'er rip, and down that object ball went. Did it 4 more times, each one a different shot, and each object ball went down.
The slight variations in angle depending on strength of stroke and where on the vertical axis the tip hits are extremely important, especially if the object ball is further away.
This method takes into account the relative condition of the balls: clean, dirty, waxed, polished, and adjusts for them. It also takes into account whether they are red circle, blue circle, measles, centennials, aramiths, WHATEVER. It is very important to get a feel for the actual conditions on the table, and this outcome based approach has helped my game a lot.
Also, if you need to shoot with the cue jacked up, this will also change the angle a bit, and you'll need to adjust. With time, you'll make the adjustments naturally, almost without thinking about them.
Will it work for you? Maybe, maybe not.
Why not give it a try?
Cheers!
Flex
Here's the way I've figured out how to make this thing work for me, and depending on the cue and cue ball/object ball combination, it all changes. Anyways...
The first thing I'll do when warming up is set up a moderate cut shot, something between 30 and 45 degrees, with the object ball say 2 diamonds from a corner pocket, and the cue ball about a diamond away. I find the specific point in the pocket I want the cue ball to go and imagine a laser light from that specific point straight from that point coming back through the object ball dead center, and see that imaginary laser point on the object ball. Then I'll put the tip of my cue on the cloth approximately 1/2 inch to 3/4 of an inch away, hold it there, angle my cue over to where the cue ball is, and dead center the cue shaft over the cue ball, use that line for my initial angling and shoot a dead center, medium stroke shot, rolling the cue ball to the object ball. It may go in, it may not. What I'm doing is getting a feel for the angle necessary with this shot to pot the object ball exactly to the point I wish it to go. Obviously, if your stroke is not straight this systematic approach won't be consistent. If I don't pot the object ball in the right spot in the pocket, I'll set the exact same shot up again, and make an adjustment to where that point in front of the object ball is, until I get it down perfectly. Once I have that down, I memorize the exact location of the cue tip on the cloth to make that shot sing. Next, I'll set up the exact same shot, but this time shoot the shot with a force follow. Try this and you'll see that the object ball will most likely throw to the inside and you'll miss the shot. How do you fix this? Well, just make that aiming point on the cloth before the object ball a bit closer to the object ball. In essence you will be hitting the object ball a bit fuller, to counteract the throw. Once it pots perfectly, memorize the exact location of that point your aiming at. Then do the same thing with the shot but with draw. You'll find the aiming point will again vary, because of throw, but this time, your adjustment will differ again.
All this is just with a center ball hit!
Once you get this down, and adjust to the balls and the table and so on, this method is pretty accurate. If you find you need to shoot with a powerful force follow, or a scorching draw shot, you'll know what to do. Add english to it, and get ready for more adjustments.
How does this work, at least for me? VERY well, and if my alignment is on, and the shot is grooved, that object ball is going down.
About a week ago, I tested this aiming and stroking system out, on a 9 foot table, shooting about a 30 degree cut shot as described above, but I moved the object ball further away from the corner pocket. It was probably about 3 1/2 diamonds or so away, and the cue ball was probably about 2 diamonds away from the object ball. I say "probably" because I varied the shot in different ways for 6 shots.
I did my aiming as described, set up for a powerful force follow, grooved my stroke, turned my head away and didn't look at the shot, powered the cue ball and heard the object ball smack dead into the pocket. I moved the balls around a bit, aimed and set up for a powerful draw shot, grooved my stroke, looked away, let 'er rip, and down that object ball went. Did it 4 more times, each one a different shot, and each object ball went down.
The slight variations in angle depending on strength of stroke and where on the vertical axis the tip hits are extremely important, especially if the object ball is further away.
This method takes into account the relative condition of the balls: clean, dirty, waxed, polished, and adjusts for them. It also takes into account whether they are red circle, blue circle, measles, centennials, aramiths, WHATEVER. It is very important to get a feel for the actual conditions on the table, and this outcome based approach has helped my game a lot.
Also, if you need to shoot with the cue jacked up, this will also change the angle a bit, and you'll need to adjust. With time, you'll make the adjustments naturally, almost without thinking about them.
Will it work for you? Maybe, maybe not.
Why not give it a try?
Cheers!
Flex
CaptainJR said:
Hmmmm.... I don't find the spot all that elusive, and can pick it up very easily when standing directly behind the OB ( "behind" meaning in a straight line from the OB to the pocket ). I'm thinking you need more illumination or perhaps an illustration
Dave
Jude Rosenstock said:
So what happens if the "natural" spot doesn't pocket the ball? Or is there a certain level of play where that becomes impossible?
For me there are some cut shots, probably between 50 and 70 degrees, that I line up with ghost ball. They look wrong from behind the CB, and feel wrong, but the ball goes in. I have to just trust that I lined it up right the first time, because if I go by instinct I'll hit the OB too fat.
Is my subconscious simply wrong, or am I feeding it bad informaton somewhere?
Jude Rosenstock said:
I agree totally Jude. Everybody has the ability to train the cue to follow their eye, after that it's just a case of cueing straight. It's impossible to misjudge an angle. It's there in front of you. You can see it. That's the angle. Just trust your brain.
To cut a pink in off its spot from the 'D' on a snooker table you need to hit a sweet spot on the pink of less than 3/4 of a millimetre (about 1/32") from well over 6 feet away. Personally I'd be lucky to see 3/4 of an inch at that distance, especially an indefinite one on a shiny curved surface. That equates to 0.036° max play in your cuing. Those numbers are just not humanly possible. But you can do it without thinking time after time if you only trust yourself to do it without thinking. Aiming points are for billiards. Pool is not billiards. It's potting.
Boro Nut
Mungtor said:
That's all part of the training. The book, "The Inner Game of Tennis" talks about just that. You keep hitting what you think is the correct spot until you subconsciously begin to make the adjustments. In other words, keep doing it the same way and eventually, it'll start to work.
Trust me, my approach to aiming isn't something that can be incorporated overnight. It takes dozens, if not hundreds of hours of practice but it truly is euphoric. Not only do you gain a level of certainty but it also allows your conscious mind to concentrate on other things like position play. Especially over the past six months, pocketing has become so natural for me that I can think about the woman in the short skirt on the adjacent table stretching over her table to take a shot while I drop the 9-ball. My conscious mind is now focused on my pre-shot routine, focusing on what I need to do to put my body in-line for the shot. Nothing more (except for the woman playing at the adjacent table).
If you watch ANY of the great players on tape, you'll notice there's little fretting over how to pocket a ball. They may take their time but they're thinking more about where they want the cue-ball to go and how to do it rather than actually making the ball. If you watch Reyes, his eyes look completely relaxed while he's shooting. There's no squinting. There's no intense examination of the object ball. He looks. He fires. He pockets. He moves on. That's it. You think Reyes is looking at light reflections or ghost balls? No. He's just looking at the ball and hitting it.
These systems that have been devised over the years are products that have been produced, reproduced, edited and regurgitated by instructors wishing to systemize pocketing in such a manner that a beginner can understand. What they fail to mention is that there are flaws to this approach. It's robotic. It may point the shooter in the right direction but it doesn't make any sort of compensation for the hundreds (if not thousands) of experiences the brain has already amassed. The human brain is the most remarkable tool ever created but its true capabilities cannot be tapped through robotic, conscious thought. The conscious mind can only think of a half-dozen things at once (a dozen if you're female). The subconscious handles several hundred-thousand commands a nano-second from breathing to walking, to picking up a pencil. Hell, it still takes NASA YEARS (and millions of dollars) to develop a robot that can do those tasks. My two year old niece has no problem!
Your hand-eye coordination is something that has been in development LONG BEFORE there was a system for shooting pool. In fact, when you think about it, it's almost silly to think that a system could even come close to what nature has already provided. It's the silver bullet every beginner looks for. It's the key to all answers. TRUST YOURSELF. JUST LET IT HAPPEN and it will. It still takes training. You can't assume that you can switch without any training but if you commit yourself to the approach, it won't be long until you already see the fruits of your labor.
Thanks everyone for your responses.
Those last 2 (Boro/Jade) really hit home and put things in perspective for me. I will try to adopt the approach of visualizing the cue ball to object ball, object ball to pocket, cue ball to perfect position and then lean over to take the shot and turn the mind movie into reality. Hell, in my mind movie, I'll even think about the noises of the colliding balls and pocketed OB. I hope I get to that level where I can check out the blond at the adjacent table during the shot execution like Jade...
Those last 2 (Boro/Jade) really hit home and put things in perspective for me. I will try to adopt the approach of visualizing the cue ball to object ball, object ball to pocket, cue ball to perfect position and then lean over to take the shot and turn the mind movie into reality. Hell, in my mind movie, I'll even think about the noises of the colliding balls and pocketed OB. I hope I get to that level where I can check out the blond at the adjacent table during the shot execution like Jade...
JoeyInCali said:
What works for me is seeing the path of the object ball to the pocket. Any english (high and low also) I make adjustments without any conscious thought. When I am off and not making my shots cleanly it is always due to the fact that I am not in sync with the entire path, in other words I am looking at a spot on the object ball without seeing the whole path. When I see the whole path, I play most shots without any thought of difficulty. I do not mean to say that I do not have a spot in the ball, I do except it continues through the object ball to the part of the pocket I am playing.
drivermaker
Banned
papercut said:
Well...hey...Don't say anything, but Jude has a reputation among the women as being "very easy".
You know...like a male slut.
drivermaker said:Well...hey...Don't say anything, but Jude has a reputation among the women as being "very easy".
You know...like a male slut.
With all due respect (and I know we're just having fun here) but for the sake of my current relationship, let's not start any rumors. I enjoy a little eye-candy but have no interest in tasting the sweets.
drivermaker
Banned
Jude Rosenstock said:
OK...just in case Jude's future ex-wife reads this...I retract that statement about him.
I and the rest of the male members on here have all been male sluts. (proud of it too)
drivermaker said:OK...just in case Jude's future ex-wife reads this...I retract that statement about him.
I and the rest of the male members on here have all been male sluts. (proud of it too)
i plead the 5th......
VAP
U might wanna add equipment ho.drivermaker said:.
I and the rest of the male members on here have all been male sluts. (proud of it too)
You know, you've bought all laminated shafts and laminated butts in hoping to get zero deflection.
Please tell us you did not buy a laser-inserted shaft too for aiming purposes.
drivermaker
Banned
JoeyInCali said:U might wanna add equipment ho.
You know, you've bought all laminated shafts and laminated butts in hoping to get zero deflection.
Please tell us you did not buy a laser-inserted shaft too for aiming purposes.
I would have but it never made sense to me. It seems like the laser beam would have hit some point on the CB and stopped dead, never reaching the OB. That is...unless someone came up with a pure glass CB so that it went right through. Hmmmmm.........
I am working on an invention for all contact point users. It's a telescopic lens that fits on top of the shaft just like a rifle, has crosshairs and a 10 power lens that'll bring the contact point right up to the tip of your nose as you look through it. The vertical crosshair will also be adjustable from side to side and calibrated based on the number of tips of english to be used, or calculate the amount of deflection from a chart listing all cuemakers shafts that have been pretested and logged. That will be in the first version...the second version will have a microchip that calculates all of it automatically.
I'm doing all of the contact point research now with Hal.
Do you wish to preorder?
drivermaker said:I would have but it never made sense to me. It seems like the laser beam would have hit some point on the CB and stopped dead, never reaching the OB. That is...unless someone came up with a pure glass CB so that it went right through. Hmmmmm.........
I am working on an invention for all contact point users. It's a telescopic lens that fits on top of the shaft just like a rifle, has crosshairs and a 10 power lens that'll bring the contact point right up to the tip of your nose as you look through it. The vertical crosshair will also be adjustable from side to side and calibrated based on the number of tips of english to be used, or calculate the amount of deflection from a chart listing all cuemakers shafts that have been pretested and logged. That will be in the first version...the second version will have a microchip that calculates all of it automatically.
I'm doing all of the contact point research now with Hal.
Do you wish to preorder?
give you a dollar for it......
VAP
drivermaker
Banned
vapoolplayer said:
OK...cash with proper identification. No charge cards, paypal, or trades.
