Yet again... another aiming question

drivermaker said:
VAP...all I can tell you is that YOU and I have just placed ourselves on everyone's (primarily FL haters) shit list for complimenting and recognizing FL and his accomplishments. They'll still say that it was trick photography and he's a fraud. I could care less.........
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I was one of those who felt that FL needed to move on. I never ever questioned his pool talent. Being good at something doesn't mean you can't be an asshole too. FL and that other dude that started 20 threads a day were both a pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sorry that Gremlin was booted either. He decided to flip Mike off and suffered the consequences. I said it before and I'll say it again, this board is not a democracy or some model of freedom, it's Mike's board and he can close it tomorrow if he wants to. He makes the decision whether someone is booted or not. I don't think the members have anything to say about it.
 
papercut said:
My apologies for starting a thread that has already been beaten to death.

Quick question:

So you have aimed up the shot with whatever method works and are down to pull the trigger. Where do you FOCUS your eyes at the moment of truth on, let's say, a cut shot:

1) Edge of object ball (realizing, of course, that you are not stroking at that point)
2) A spot on the cloth at ghost ball location
3) A spot on the cloth before ghost ball location
4) A spot on the cloth past ghost ball location
5) Blurred focus by visualizing on a ghost ball that isn't actually there
6) Nothing (eyes darting between ghost ball, object ball, pocket)
7) Other

I'm trying to get a sense on whether top players who "just feel the shot" are focusing their eyes somewhere tangible (i.e. something on which allows your eyes to focus) and, if so, what that tangible thing is. If it isn't tangible, is the vision just blurred (i.e. imagine focusing on an imaginary item 2 feet from your head... see how your vision blurs?), are are the eyes just darting around?

Thanks!
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Don't overanalyze this. Don't "think" about it. Once you learn how to properly line up and get down on a shot..and you focus on the object ball point of contact...just "trust" yourself and don't put too much thought into it. Keep your fundamentals together and you'll be pocketting balls. All of this excess analysis will paralyze you. If you have to think about it...either focus on the object ball point of contact or where you're contacting the cueball with your tip BEFORE pulling the trigger. If you're in line though, you could close your eyes and still make the ball (although I wouldn't advise that).
 
A little tip for making long off of the rail shots (where say, on one end of the table the cue ball is frozen to the center of the rail and your object ball is...say a foot away from the left corner pocket towards the middle of the table. I hit nothing but center top cueball..but then I imagine that the cue ball has disappeared and that I'm aiming directly at the point of contact on the object ball with the tip of my cue. Once I stumbled on to doing that (and then realized what I did) my accuracy on those shots went up 60%. You have to keep your cue very level...and hit with a good follow through. It seems less intimidating that you have such a small space to hit on the cue ball when you just imagine it's gone and you're aiming just to hit the object ball. Obviously you have to alter your perception a bit. Hope this makes sense...
 
Aiming

Mungtor said:
So what happens if the "natural" spot doesn't pocket the ball? Or is there a certain level of play where that becomes impossible?

For me there are some cut shots, probably between 50 and 70 degrees, that I line up with ghost ball. They look wrong from behind the CB, and feel wrong, but the ball goes in. I have to just trust that I lined it up right the first time, because if I go by instinct I'll hit the OB too fat.

Is my subconscious simply wrong, or am I feeding it bad informaton somewhere?
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Still trying to get there without an aiming system?
 
guygrandmont said:
Still trying to get there without an aiming system?
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Still waiting for you to explain you aiming system to us, so we can become A players........................... Cole.
 
Aiming

I still believe the best aiming system is not picking a spot on the object ball or the even ghost ball. To me this is not the complete shot. The whole shot is what I believe needs to be the aiming system. You are first taught to hit balls into the pocket without the cue ball, that is the visual - that is the complete shot, the ball to the pocket.

Picture this; An arrow through the ball so that the end of the arrow is flush with the back of the object ball, the tip of the arrow is pointing and is touching the part of the pocket you are playing. When you align the shot you are seeing the shot in entirety as a three dimensional one. You are hitting into a path, not a spot. So the aiming method is a path, not a spot. You now create a complete visual of every COMPLETE shot. If you are off a little, it is so much easier to adjust.

What it helps with;
1.If balls are a little sticky because of humidity, you are playing high and low english shots,... the path changes slightly and it becomes easier to build in a mental adjustment that stays with you.
2. Difficult shots are now incredibly easier (long cut shots), you just see them
3. There are fewer parts to the shot to worry about. Finding a spot and adding a ghost ball is just too limited and adding to many parts. Keep it visual, simple and complete.
4. When another ball is taking up part of the pocket and you have to be more precise, you can know see the path clearer.

When I hit a golf ball I do not look for a spot on the back of the ball, I see the complete shot. That is the path of the golf ball and where I plan to place it onto the fairway. Same with hitting a baseball, making a hoop,,, and everything else.

I have shown a few who now make more shots than ever. My 9 year old son who started playing 5 months ago is making great shots. Someone tried to tell him about the ghost ball when he first started playing, I stopped him and told him NEVER to look for a spot to shoot at and never create a ghost ball - always see the entire shot. He plays about 2 times a week for about 5 months now and now beats many of the teenagers that come into the pool room on Friday nights to play. He makes great cuts. Now, he just sees the shot and where he wants the cue ball. Its all paths. The shot does not end at the ghost ball or the spot, that is dead end. The shot ends in the pocket. Fewer parts and very clear.

In my opinion this is the best method. This creates the complete visual.
 
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Very well worded Pete Lafond, i like the whole path thingy. Gave me another way of seeing the ball, rather then just trying to pick out contact points and clicks. Cole 'TheConArtist'
 
pete lafond said:
I still believe the best aiming system is not picking a spot on the object ball or the even ghost ball. To me this is not the complete shot. The whole shot is what I believe needs to be the aiming system. You are first taught to hit balls into the pocket without the cue ball, that is the visual - that is the complete shot, the ball to the pocket.

Picture this; An arrow through the ball so that the end of the arrow is flush with the back of the object ball, the tip of the arrow is pointing and is touching the part of the pocket you are playing. When you align the shot you are seeing the shot in entirety as a three dimensional one. You are hitting into a path, not a spot. So the aiming method is a path, not a spot. You now create a complete visual of every COMPLETE shot. If you are off a little, it is so much easier to adjust.

What it helps with;
1.If balls are a little sticky because of humidity, you are playing high and low english shots,... the path changes slightly and it becomes easier to build in a mental adjustment that stays with you.
2. Difficult shots are now incredibly easier (long cut shots), you just see them
3. There are fewer parts to the shot to worry about. Finding a spot and adding a ghost ball is just too limited and adding to many parts. Keep it visual, simple and complete.
4. When another ball is taking up part of the pocket and you have to be more precise, you can know see the path clearer.

When I hit a golf ball I do not look for a spot on the back of the ball, I see the complete shot. That is the path of the golf ball and where I plan to place it onto the fairway. Same with hitting a baseball, making a hoop,,, and everything else.

I have shown a few who now make more shots than ever. My 9 year old son who started playing 5 months ago is making great shots. Someone tried to tell him about the ghost ball when he first started playing, I stopped him and told him NEVER to look for a spot to shoot at and never create a ghost ball - always see the entire shot. He plays about 2 times a week for about 5 months now and now beats many of the teenagers that come into the pool room on Friday nights to play. He makes great cuts. Now, he just sees the shot and where he wants the cue ball. Its all paths. The shot does not end at the ghost ball or the spot, that is dead end. The shot ends in the pocket. Fewer parts and very clear.

In my opinion this is the best method. This creates the complete visual.
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Yes. I agree. This sounds very similar to what I have been saying about aim. It's not that I don't aim. I just don't picture spots on the CB or OB to aim at. I basically just see the correct angle (or path) as I line up the shot. When I'm shooting really good, it's almost as though the angles begin to look "straighter," if that makes sense. Have you noticed this?
 
Aiming

whitewolf said:
Beginners look at the whole object ball.

Motorcycle riders are warned not to look at the tree, lest they become the tree.

Beginners become the object ball. That is why they hit the object ball fat most of the time.

WW recommends doing a lot of cut shots - say 85% with the object ball just off the rail. Do lots of these shots, especially if you are a beginner. You should be seeing the edge of the object ball (3% for example) that you want the cue ball to hit. In this example, line up the cue ball so that 3% of it is going to hit the object ball.

That way when you go to hit a fuller shot, your eyes have been trained not to look at the full object ball. Eventually, you will learn. I use the ghost ball to get a general view, but I find that when I am focusing on the object ball last, I see a three dimensional protruding object ball that is furthest from the pocket. Kinda like VApoolplayer said, except that my definition veers away from focusing on a point. i.e. How big is the point? IMHO, it is best not to see a needle size point but rather a three dimensional one with depth added to it.
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I LIKE TO USE AN AIMING METHOD THAT ALLOWS ME TO AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THREE SPECIFIC TARGETS ON THE OBJECT BALL, FOR ANY AND ALL SHOTS, INCLUDING POCKETING, BANKING, CAROMS, COMBINATIONS. THOSE SPECIFIC TARGETS ON THE OBJECT BALL NEVER CHANGE. THEY ARE ALWYS IN THE SAME PLACE.

GUY
 
JLW said:
Yes. I agree. This sounds very similar to what I have been saying about aim. It's not that I don't aim. I just don't picture spots on the CB or OB to aim at. I basically just see the correct angle (or path) as I line up the shot. When I'm shooting really good, it's almost as though the angles begin to look "straighter," if that makes sense. Have you noticed this?
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Yes, and you begin making shots that would otherwise seem difficult but their not because they are so clearly simple now, you just see it in the pocket.
 
guygrandmont said:
I LIKE TO USE AN AIMING METHOD THAT ALLOWS ME TO AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THREE SPECIFIC TARGETS ON THE OBJECT BALL, FOR ANY AND ALL SHOTS, INCLUDING POCKETING, BANKING, CAROMS, COMBINATIONS. THOSE SPECIFIC TARGETS ON THE OBJECT BALL NEVER CHANGE. THEY ARE ALWYS IN THE SAME PLACE.

GUY
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When I bank I see the entire path that leads to the pocket which is even more important than trying to pick a spot. Imagine hitting a bank hard or soft, left or right english.. and you have to get position. Picking spots would drive me crazy. Its nice and simple to be able to see the whole path. This becomes quite natural for me when playing 3 cushion billiards also being able to see the angles rather than picking spots.

When shooting combos, because I am so use to this method it makes combos easier to see. Being able to see through path(s) allows me to see overcutting and undercutting much more easily than looking for spots on a ball especially if the balls are throwing more on a given day.

In all cases it is easier to decide how to play shots because you see the whole shot and getting position on the next shot is even simpler.

As I stated before, someone told my 9 year old the methods of a ghost ball and picking spots on the object ball. When he told me, I corrected him immediatly to only see the path just as if he were hitting the object ball without the cue ball. Within 5 months of playing only 2 times a week when posssible, he makes some great shots and beats quite a few of the teenagers that play at the pool room on Friday nights.
 
pete lafond said:
Yes, and you begin making shots that would otherwise seem difficult but their not because they are so clearly simple now, you just see it in the pocket.
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I know that people who have never shot this way think it is BS. And that's ok. I've seen how passionate players are about their aiming systems. And, hey, I say use whatever works for you. But I've experienced this way of "aiming" myself, and it does works. I shoot more accurately this way than with any "system" I ever used. I even shoot this way playing Snooker, and it works just as well as it does on my 8ft table at home.
 
papercut said:
My apologies for starting a thread that has already been beaten to death.

Quick question:

So you have aimed up the shot with whatever method works and are down to pull the trigger. Where do you FOCUS your eyes at the moment of truth on, let's say, a cut shot:

1) Edge of object ball (realizing, of course, that you are not stroking at that point)
2) A spot on the cloth at ghost ball location
3) A spot on the cloth before ghost ball location
4) A spot on the cloth past ghost ball location
5) Blurred focus by visualizing on a ghost ball that isn't actually there
6) Nothing (eyes darting between ghost ball, object ball, pocket)
7) Other

I'm trying to get a sense on whether top players who "just feel the shot" are focusing their eyes somewhere tangible (i.e. something on which allows your eyes to focus) and, if so, what that tangible thing is. If it isn't tangible, is the vision just blurred (i.e. imagine focusing on an imaginary item 2 feet from your head... see how your vision blurs?), are are the eyes just darting around?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

WHEN CUTTING TO THE LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THE CENTER OF THE RIGHT HALF OF THE OBJECT BALL. THAT PRODUCES A 15 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT. AGAIN CUTTING LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THE RIGHT EDGE OF THE OBJECT BALL, THAT PRODUCES A 30 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT, AGAIN CUTTING LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE LEFT HALF OF THE CUE BALL AT THE RIGHT EDGE OF THE OBJECT BALL, THAT PRODUCES A 45 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT. IT ALL ADS UP TO 90, WHICH IS WHAT THE CORNERS OF THE TABLE ARE, A PERFECT RECTANGLE.

REVERSE THE ORDER WHEN CUTTING TO THE RIGHT.

THOSE THREE ANGLES WILL MAKE ANY AND ALL SHOTS POSSIBLE ON A TABLE, INCLUDING POCKETING, BANKING, CAROMS, COMNINATIONS.

THOUGH THE CUE BALL LOOMS LARGE IN FRONT OF ME, AND THE OBJECT BALL LOOKS SMALLER, IT IS SIMPLE FOR ME TO ALWAYS AIM ANY SHOT, BECAUSE I AM ALWAYS AIMING THE SAME EXACT PLACES ON THE CUE BALL AT THE SAME EXACT PLACES ON THE OBJECT BALL, ALL THE TIME. I AM ALWAYS LOOKING AT MY PLACES TO OBJECT BALL.

I ONLY NEED THREE ANGLES. THREE TO THE LEFT, THREE TO THE RIGHT. I CAN GO TO ANY OF SIX POCKETS, DIRECTLY OR BANKING.

IF YOU COULD BE AT A TABLE, I WILL SHOW YOU HOW AND WHY IT WORKS. IT IS VERY SIMPLE.

CALL ME AT 510 581 3010. I WILL CALL YOU RIGHT BACK, SO THE PHONE EXPENSE FROM THEN ON WILL BE ON MY DIME,AND WE CAN TALK AS LONG AS YOU WANT TO.

HAL
 
guygrandmont said:
WHEN CUTTING TO THE LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THE CENTER OF THE RIGHT HALF OF THE OBJECT BALL. THAT PRODUCES A 15 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT. AGAIN CUTTING LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE CUE BALL AT THE RIGHT EDGE OF THE OBJECT BALL, THAT PRODUCES A 30 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT, AGAIN CUTTING LEFT, I AIM THE CENTER OF THE LEFT HALF OF THE CUE BALL AT THE RIGHT EDGE OF THE OBJECT BALL, THAT PRODUCES A 45 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE LEFT. IT ALL ADS UP TO 90, WHICH IS WHAT THE CORNERS OF THE TABLE ARE, A PERFECT RECTANGLE.

REVERSE THE ORDER WHEN CUTTING TO THE RIGHT.

THOSE THREE ANGLES WILL MAKE ANY AND ALL SHOTS POSSIBLE ON A TABLE, INCLUDING POCKETING, BANKING, CAROMS, COMNINATIONS.

THOUGH THE CUE BALL LOOMS LARGE IN FRONT OF ME, AND THE OBJECT BALL LOOKS SMALLER, IT IS SIMPLE FOR ME TO ALWAYS AIM ANY SHOT, BECAUSE I AM ALWAYS AIMING THE SAME EXACT PLACES ON THE CUE BALL AT THE SAME EXACT PLACES ON THE OBJECT BALL, ALL THE TIME. I AM ALWAYS LOOKING AT MY PLACES TO OBJECT BALL.

I ONLY NEED THREE ANGLES. THREE TO THE LEFT, THREE TO THE RIGHT. I CAN GO TO ANY OF SIX POCKETS, DIRECTLY OR BANKING.




HAL
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Awwww about time, that is nyce how you put things in order, how they add up to 90 degrees, six shots six pockets, i never seen it this way, after seeing it this way it makes the whole aiming system very simple, and i could beat myself for how complicated i made things. Cole 'TheConArtist'
 
Nanananana... Dadadadada... Nununununu...

whitewolf said:
Beginners become the object ball.
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Jude Rosenstock said:
You know, I think all you guys think too much. JUST HIT THE BALL AND WILL IT TO GO IN! Actually, you'll be surprised by what you're capable of when you don't clutter your mind with so many thoughts.
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There's a force in the universe that makes things happen...and all you have to is get in touch with it... stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball...
 
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marissayi said:
There's a force in the universe that makes things happen...and all you have to is get in touch with it... stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball...
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lol um, what's with "nananananan dadadadadad numumuumum"?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Yeah, those iPods have become rather popular in poolrooms. Honestly, there are a lot of organizations that ban them so I don't think it's the wisest decision to use one while practicing. I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to them so I'll never condone their use.
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Why are they becoming banned? I use an mp3 player when I shoot and it helps me focus on the game, and not what's going on around me. It's not like there's a guy on the other end secretly telling me how or what to shoot.
 
Noonan!

Jude Rosenstock said:
lol um, what's with "nananananan dadadadadad numumuumum"?
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How can you not recocognise that from Caddyshack?! I'm so disappointed in you, Jude... You let me down as a man...
 
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