you can't smoke in a poolroom???

[nyjoe14.1]

FWIW it was 4 that passed. 5 was the much less restrictive
constitutional amendment sponsored by the tobacco industry

Now that we have the pedantic/anal issues done with,
I am gravely concerned. Esp for BK, where Steve just invested
in all those new Diamonds.

smoking bans have pretty much been disasterous for poolrooms
Many a thriving room with decades of sucess, have crashed and burned when smoking was outlawed, some in only a few months

As I see it, the only hope is, the ban is state wide. Perhaps that
will soften the blow somewhat, but I am not optimistic

Dale Pierce(who is sleepless in Cincinnati)

No dale 5 passed, 4 was less restrictive this is the law:

To enact Chapter 3794. of the Ohio Revised Code to restrict smoking in places of employment and most places open to the public. The proposed law would:
Prohibit smoking in public places and places of employment;
Exempt from the smoking restrictions certain locations, including private residences (except during the hours that the residence operates as a place of business involving non-residents of the private residence), designated smoking rooms in hotels, motels, and other lodging facilities; designated smoking areas for nursing home residents; retail tobacco stores, outdoor patios, private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
Authorize a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from secondhand tobacco smoke;
Allow for the declaration of an establishment, facility, or outdoor area as nonsmoking;
Require the posting of "No Smoking" signs, and the removal of all ashtrays and similar receptacles from any area where smoking is prohibited;
Specify the duties of the department of health to enforce the smoking restrictions
Create in the state treasury the "smoke free indoor air fund;"
Provide for the enforcement of the smoking restrictions and for the imposition of civil fines upon anyone who violates the smoking restrictions.

as seen on http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/oh/state/issue/5/


I agree with what you said about BK, but according to the experts on this board the place will be lined w/ gold once this goes into practice. There will be a waiting list on a Wednesday night and life will be much better, and no one will ever loose and people will live forever blah blah blah. I hope it works out but I guess well see

 

[jodcue]

The new law refers to public places. I think that the halls that want to let their patrens continue to smoke will become private clubs open to members only. One of the requirements to being a member will be that you accept the fact that the private club is a smoking establishment.

Problem solved!

 

[desert1pocket]

There is an employee at the local pool hall who has been there over 25 years. She has never smoked, but she got throat cancer last year from second hand smoke. While I understand that these smoking bans are an infringement on business owners rights, they were put in place to protect the people that have to work in these environments. For those who say she could have found another job, where would a person with a skillset of bartending and bar management find a non-smoking job without taking a huge paycut? As an ex-smoker, I look forward to being able to play pool and not come home smelling like an ashtray, and not having a sore throat for days after a long match.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

NYJOE, your logic here is severely flawed. How do you think a law gets passed? Do you think there is some evil entity called "The Government" who simply enacts laws based on some malevolent whim? The people are the government. That is specifically what distinguishes this country from countries like North Korea, etc. The law was passed because the majority of people agreed with that law. Times are changing. Humans evolve. Now they are getting to the point where their own health is important. Life is getting easier, and NOT DYING is getting easier. Some people just aren't into that. That's fine. They will become the minority. And when that happens to them, they will feel "persecuted", and they will feel like "the government" is against them. Sadly, all that's really happening is that they are being left behind.

Also, if it is our choice to walk into a smoke filled room, isn't it also our choice to make it NOT a smoke filled room? You might as well stop arguing, or someone might suggest that you are complaining about your CHOICE to walk into a non-smoking establishment and complain that you can't smoke. You are suggesting that people must choose smoke if they choose pool, like it is some kind of package deal.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so maybe you clear all this up later.

KMRUNOUT

Slave to my addiction?? Your joking right??

If you want to live in a country where the government does your thinking for you fine, move. Communist North Korea, China, or Cuba would love to have you im sure.

No I won’t quit playing pool because of this (I am not a slave to my addiction) I just might loose a few of those extra pounds because I get more exercise walking out side every 15min. LOL I just think that a lot of you are missing the big picture here. And as far as me being selfish how can you possibly blame me and all the other smokers for you CHOICE to walk into a smoke filled room??

 

[cueandcushion]

No Smoking ban here yet.

A suburb of St Louis has become the third one to have "No Smoking" ordinance passed yesterday. It is in a suburb named Kirkwood here in St Louis. No pool rooms in Kirkwood that I know of. But slowly and surely it will spread. I have enough headaches as it is with business. Don't need another right now. lol.


This thread reminds me of a joke...

A restaurant that has a designated smoking area makes as much sense as a swimming pool that has a designated peeing area.

 

[chefjeff]

We don't have any private pool rooms here in Texas that I know of. They are all open to the general public.

(snip)

Ray

What I meant by private---I can't believe I must explain this--what I mean by private is that a real human being owns the property. He pays for it, therefore (should) controls it. He writes the checks, etc.

This privately-owned property is used for a business called pool. Those who come onto the property voluntarily, do so to trade with the owner. BOTH the owner and the customer agree to the terms of the trade or else each has the option for no deal.

The private property owner can refuse to deal with any potential customer and any customer can refuse to deal with the property owner. No one is forced to make the deal happen.

To interfere with the above freedom is to use the way of criminals: coercion, backed by guns To use your freedom of choice is to use the way of the trader: mutual exchange, backed by competition.

If you don't like to breathe smoke, don't go onto others' private property where smoking happens. It is that easy. Or you can pertend that YOU, the "public," own someone else's property and stick a gun in his ribs and make it just as hunky-doory as the majority of you and your armed thugs want it to be, but that doesn't magically make it good.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

Hey Craig. I'm afraid not. Many smokers really can't understand what might be wrong with forcing others to breathe their second hand smoke. I'm really tired of having this debate with them because, in the end, it always comes down to the fact that they just want to smoke wherever they want and that's that. I've never heard a valid argument against the ban that made me stop and think, "hmm, I see your point". (snip)

I don't smoke and have argued here, without losing, the principle of property ownership vis-a-vis anti-smoking laws.

Your use of the word "force" in your first sentence is mistaken. No one is forced to go to a pool hall, ergo, no one is forced to go to a pool hall and breathe smoke.

Jeff Livingston

 

[nyjoe14.1]

Dam I created a monster

Also, if it is our choice to walk into a smoke filled room, isn't it also our choice to make it NOT a smoke filled room? You might as well stop arguing, or someone might suggest that you are complaining about your CHOICE to walk into a non-smoking establishment and complain that you can't smoke. You are suggesting that people must choose smoke if they choose pool, like it is some kind of package deal.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so maybe you clear all this up later.

KMRUNOUT[/QUOTE]

That makes no sense, why would I stop arguing when I’m having some much fun discussing this with all the level headed, open minded people on this board? My choice not to go to a smoke free pool hall HA. Man if that’s not a double edged sward I don’t know what is. That makes my point for me.

I have to tell ya I had no idea there would be this much fall out from this post. Its kinda cool though.
I really didn’t expect it to be this one sided either, I know that there are still smokers in the pool world. I wasn’t imaging it when I was there last time. I can’t believe that me and maybe 2 or 3 others are the only people standing up for our side.

And no my logic is not off in this case. It is true that a slim majority of the voters passed this law I will give you that, but there is still a large minority (almost 50%) that didn’t vote for it. What happened to equal opportunity and the government standing up for the minority or does that only apply when its PC? You say that pool and smoke are a package deal well yeah I guess they are in a way. We are all well educated enough by now to know that smoking is bad, but im sure you knew that the first time you went into a pool room. God I feel like im banging my head against the wall. I say the same thing and then the other side says the same thing over and over 5 pages worth. Its simple there was a fight and my side lost that doesn’t mean that im going to be happy with it or that I agree with it or that im going to stop fighting it. And maybe there will be no ill affects for pool it could be a good thing I suppose but I guess well see won’t we.

The bottom line here is that yes times are changing, and yes I would say that I represent the old guard. Since I can’t get on CNN or FOX news to b***h about what I consider an injustice this will have to do LOL.

sorry didn't know i couldn't say that

 

[chefjeff]

Entitlement?.

What entitles a smoker the right to pollute the air in a poolhall?.

(snip)

That's easy...BECAUSE THE OWNER SAY HE CAN.

You know, the guy who pays the bills, the guys who risked his investment, the guy who creates the jobs, the guys who takes all the risks, the guy who created a place for pool players, the owner.

You said you can't/won't earn enough to have big room for a table of your own, yet you think you can just get enough people together and make a mass invasion of the property of someone who does earn enough, and take over control of it by the point of a gun.

Jeff Livingston

 

[nyjoe14.1]

I don't smoke and have argued here, without losing, the principle of property ownership vis-a-vis anti-smoking laws.

Your use of the word "force" in your first sentence is mistaken. No one is forced to go to a pool hall, ergo, no one is forced to go to a pool hall and breathe smoke.

Jeff Livingston

good call, at least someone else gets what im saying

 

[sde]

Retarded huh?? Whats retarded is that people like you think you have the right to tell me what I can and can not do. There is much more to this than a simple smoking ban. When the government can tell you, me, and everyone else how to live there lives it is not a good thing. What this is, is an attempted end to vice any thing that is deemed unhealthy is bad there fore must be banned. So whats next I can’t eat a steak in public, or all the nightclubs in the country have to turn there music down because someone went deaf????

It comes down to choice, you knew what went on in a poolroom when you started playing and so did everyone else you made the choice to go inside and play. Fully knowing what you were getting into, why should we have to change because it is now in vogue to persecute smokers???

TAP TAP TAP

 

[Jimmy M.]

I don't smoke and have argued here, without losing, the principle of property ownership vis-a-vis anti-smoking laws.

Your use of the word "force" in your first sentence is mistaken. No one is forced to go to a pool hall, ergo, no one is forced to go to a pool hall and breathe smoke.

Jeff Livingston

As far as "not losing" any arugments, that is a matter of perception; not fact. You see, my perception is that you cannot buy property and, just because you own it, do whatever you want on it. You think a business is "private property" in that regard? Go ahead and buy yourself some space and open up a bar without a liquor license. See how that goes over. You have to adhere to the applicable laws surrounding the type of business that you "own". Yes, you own the business, but you cannot do as you please because you own it.

None of this matters though. Like it or not, it's the new law here and just might be wherever you live soon enough - if it isn't already. We can argue all we want and engage in little tit-for-tat discussions but, in the end, it doesn't matter. Here, and in Ohio, it will be illegal to light up where others have to choose to leave in order not to breathe the second-hand smoke. Good day, sir.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

None of this matters though. Like it or not, it's the new law here and just might be wherever you live soon enough - if it isn't already.

Exactly. Its the law, plain and simple. And I bet after two months of dealing with it you will love the after effects of this law. So, it makes you take one more smoke break in the middle of a set. You will be able to play longer and more clearly. If every smoker played lights out then they wouldn't be sitting in their chair taking a puff. They would be at the table shooting and winning, not thinking of a drag after each miss.

I used to feel bad for my friend who smoked when we played sets. Every shot he missed or every one of my runouts he would suck down half a cig. By the end of a 6 hour sessionhe would down 1 1/2 packs of smokes. And cough all the next day.

But whatever, its smokers right to smoke, and non-smokers rights to breathe. Bash me all you will...I still love non-smoking WA and really the smokers who play pool don't mind an occasional fresh air outside.

 

[GTeye]

Retarded huh?? Whats retarded is that people like you think you have the right to tell me what I can and can not do. There is much more to this than a simple smoking ban. When the government can tell you, me, and everyone else how to live there lives it is not a good thing. What this is, is an attempted end to vice any thing that is deemed unhealthy is bad there fore must be banned. So whats next I can’t eat a steak in public, or all the nightclubs in the country have to turn there music down because someone went deaf????

Thanks for proving the retarded part.

No one is telling you how to live your life. Smoking is still legal.

Your just not being allowed to force it on others and add to their health problems based on your decision to be a cancer breeding ground.

The people passing the laws DO have the right, whether it be by direct vote or by internal vote by the people who were voted in by direct votes.

Your analogies are "retarded" in that none of them adversely effect another person in a way that can cause them to DIE.

Your analogies are "retarded" because your not being told you can't do something, once again, smoking is still legal. The simple fact that you can walk outside and smoke is proof of that.

If you don't like it, YOU go elsewhere or get your own pool table and invite your friends over to your house. HEY GUESS WHAT? THAT IS LEGAL! But wait, isn't the government telling you how to live your life? Oh wait.. I guess they aren't.

Persecute smokers, what a joke that is. Your claiming persecution while your actions negatively impact the health of everyone around you. Quite retarded.

Businesses have to abide by codes for the area they run. It's not rocket sciende. Public health is not something YOU have a right to decide.

So have your tantrim, get off your soapbox and get the hell outside with your cigarette.

 

[Brandon79ta]

As far as "not losing" any arugments, that is a matter of perception; not fact. You see, my perception is that you cannot buy property and, just because you own it, do whatever you want on it. You think a business is "private property" in that regard? Go ahead and buy yourself some space and open up a bar without a liquor license. See how that goes over. You have to adhere to the applicable laws surrounding the type of business that you "own". Yes, you own the business, but you cannot do as you please because you own it.

None of this matters though. Like it or not, it's the new law here and just might be wherever you live soon enough - if it isn't already. We can argue all we want and engage in little tit-for-tat discussions but, in the end, it doesn't matter. Here, and in Ohio, it will be illegal to light up where others have to choose to leave in order not to breathe the second-hand smoke. Good day, sir.

That is the problem with this country, the government can tell you what to do with something YOU paid for. If I buy land in the middle of New York city and wanted to build a damn barn and put a car up on blocks in the middle of the yard it's no one's business but mine. Sad thing is we have no one to blame but ourselves for ALLOWING our government to screw us like they do. Untill people learn to stand up for themselves the government will continue to do whatever they want. Simple as that.

As for the smoking ban I don't smoke and still think it's a crock of sh*t. My guess alot of bars will become "private clubs" and that'll fix that little problem. Heck I'd rather see drinking in "public places" banned then smoking if everyone gets to ban others from doing things they hate. Have always hated drunks stumbling around falling into stuff, spilling drinks on people, puking all over the place, but that doesn't stop me from going to the bars. What's next? They gonna ban dogs because they sometimes bark and keep people awake at night? Make it illegal to fart in public cause gawd forbid someone smell something they don't like?? Where does the stupidity stop?

 

[MrLucky]

The true sign of an addict is......

..."Originally Posted by nyjoe14.1
Slave to my addiction?? Your joking right??

If you want to live in a country where the government does your thinking for you fine, move. Communist North Korea, China, or Cuba would love to have you im sure.

No I won’t quit playing pool because of this (I am not a slave to my addiction) I just might loose a few of those extra pounds because I get more exercise walking out side every 15min. LOL I just think that a lot of you are missing the big picture here....

usually not knowing or admitting they have a problem! in your case the words youwrote ...."(I am not a slave to my addiction)" say it all you know you are addicted to a vile and dangerous habit ! you just don't understand that by running out every 15 minutes to do it is slavery!

 

[TheOne]

As far as "not losing" any arugments, that is a matter of perception; not fact. You see, my perception is that you cannot buy property and, just because you own it, do whatever you want on it. You think a business is "private property" in that regard? Go ahead and buy yourself some space and open up a bar without a liquor license. See how that goes over. You have to adhere to the applicable laws surrounding the type of business that you "own". Yes, you own the business, but you cannot do as you please because you own it.

None of this matters though. Like it or not, it's the new law here and just might be wherever you live soon enough - if it isn't already. We can argue all we want and engage in little tit-for-tat discussions but, in the end, it doesn't matter. Here, and in Ohio, it will be illegal to light up where others have to choose to leave in order not to breathe the second-hand smoke. Good day, sir.

hey Jimmy, forgot about this thread, agree with you you're kinda wasting your time. Most smokers I know can see smoking has a detrimental effect on innocent bystanders and accept that if they want to smoke they go outside. Some good points raised but I still feel you'd have more success pi$$ing in the wind.

What clinched it for me was I saw a documentary sometime ago about babies that live in non smoking homes. Many of these young kids (under 1year old) had traces of nicotine in their blood which came from being around smokers in public places. Don't they have rights? Should their parents make them stay at home?

 

[pdcue]

it must have been the dyslexia

FWIW it was 4 that passed. 5 was the much less restrictive
constitutional amendment sponsored by the tobacco industry

Now that we have the pedantic/anal issues done with,
I am gravely concerned. Esp for BK, where Steve just invested
in all those new Diamonds.

smoking bans have pretty much been disasterous for poolrooms
Many a thriving room with decades of sucess, have crashed and burned when smoking was outlawed, some in only a few months

As I see it, the only hope is, the ban is state wide. Perhaps that
will soften the blow somewhat, but I am not optimistic

Dale Pierce(who is sleepless in Cincinnati)

Sorry Joe, you were right about the numbers
Maybe that's why I always lose in one pocket

Dale<working hard on that counting thing>

 

[chefjeff]

hey Jimmy, forgot about this thread, agree with you you're kinda wasting your time. Most smokers I know can see smoking has a detrimental effect on innocent bystanders and accept that if they want to smoke they go outside. Some good points raised but I still feel you'd have more success pi$$ing in the wind.

What clinched it for me was I saw a documentary sometime ago about babies that live in non smoking homes. Many of these young kids (under 1year old) had traces of nicotine in their blood which came from being around smokers in public places. Don't they have rights? Should their parents make them stay at home?

You, too, support the elimination of property rights???!!!??? Come on, man! Following your principle, I can come to "your" property (you and Jimmy say that you don't own it, remember?) and smoke all I want, even with a baby around, if a majority says I can. And you can't complain, but you could piss in the wind, I supppose. No, I guess not, as if property rights are gone, you don't even own your penis.

What if the majority said that pool is bad for society? And then they voted to make it the law. You would have ZERO credibility to argue against that.

What if KT never pays? By your and Jimmy's principles, he owes nothing to anyone, because no one can truly own anything, including winnings in a pool match.

You've chosen a losing, destructive paradigm that has been proven to kill millions who have ZERO choice to defend themselves. Compare that to being "forced" to go to pool rooms and breathe noxious fumes. There is no comparison as to the damage such thinking unnecessarily creates.

Jeff Livingston

 

[pdcue]

No dale 5 passed, 4 was less restrictive this is the law:

To enact Chapter 3794. of the Ohio Revised Code to restrict smoking in places of employment and most places open to the public. The proposed law would:
Prohibit smoking in public places and places of employment;
Exempt from the smoking restrictions certain locations, including private residences (except during the hours that the residence operates as a place of business involving non-residents of the private residence), designated smoking rooms in hotels, motels, and other lodging facilities; designated smoking areas for nursing home residents; retail tobacco stores, outdoor patios, private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
Authorize a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from secondhand tobacco smoke;
Allow for the declaration of an establishment, facility, or outdoor area as nonsmoking;
Require the posting of "No Smoking" signs, and the removal of all ashtrays and similar receptacles from any area where smoking is prohibited;
Specify the duties of the department of health to enforce the smoking restrictions
Create in the state treasury the "smoke free indoor air fund;"
Provide for the enforcement of the smoking restrictions and for the imposition of civil fines upon anyone who violates the smoking restrictions.

as seen on http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/oh/state/issue/5/


I agree with what you said about BK, but according to the experts on this board the place will be lined w/ gold once this goes into practice. There will be a waiting list on a Wednesday night and life will be much better, and no one will ever loose and people will live forever blah blah blah. I hope it works out but I guess well see

You are correct sir!
you can see my mia culpa in my "it must be the dyslexia" post

FWIW - I know Joe only passingly, but he is IMHO a resonable-ish guy
and that is exactly why I am so concerned about the future of pool
rooms and pool bars in Ohio

I am certainly not in lock step with all Joe's opinions on the subject,
maybe because I don't smoke. Buit I have several friends in the biz,
and IMHO guys like Joe are the backbone of pool today.
If they leave, the rooms fold

Dale<still strugling with those pesky Arabic numerals>