Your Thoughts On lessions?

poolplayer2093

poolplayer2093

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i've taken lessions 4-5 times with 2 different instructors. with varying results the first time the results came mostly slow with a little more emphasis on my thought process and a little fundimental tweeking. the second time the focus seemed to be on my aiming process .results not so good my game has gone from about a weak B player to a weak C player. i was thinking these things that're commonly thought of as the right way to do things just don't seem to do it for me. anyone else think maybe pool is so personalized that there isn't a standard right or wrong way to do it?

any thoughts on this
 
I haven't taken lessons in a long time. There are a few people that I have tried to take lessons from, but they have all wanted to change my style or stance so drastically, it literally hurt and I didn't want to play pool anymore. I don't take lessons now, but if I were going to, I would find someone that wouldn't change my style. I could see them maybe changing a few of my fundamentals, like trying to get me to stay down longer on the ball, but not my stance. I think that if you master your own style and have strong fundamentals, that's enough of a basis to get you started. From there you could find someone to give you lessons on where your cue ball is going, ball pocketing and such.


Btw, sometimes when you change something in your game, your game gets worse before it gets better. It's something that you sometimes have to work through. If it doesn't work for you after a month, go back to what you were doing or take a little of what you were shown and moderate it with what you already do.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
I only had lessons on position and pattern play from local gods. I never had foundation lessons which I wish I had taken long ago in the beginning... but I refuse to change the way I shoot now since I have the best chicken wing ever and I'm used to it.

I love my chicken wing.

If you change too much you can play worse overall is what I've seen. I only recommend lessons in foundation in the beginning of a players pool life. After that its more about how to hit / stroke / and pattern play.
 
if you are a B player, you are not going to learn much from most instructor. All you will get is fundamentals...Just read all the posts here about people who have taken lessons... 99.99999999999956% of them all say the same thing - "he showed me flaws in my stroke" lol

Hardly any of them actually teach high level pool. You know, the secrets, the physics, the knowledge... Just stroke...

At your level, you need that more than anything. Good luck finding somebody who actually knows that stuff. The ones that do, don't teach... and they aint telling you cause they play competitively /shrug
 
CaptiveBred said:
if you are a B player, you are not going to learn much from most instructor. All you will get is fundamentals...Just read all the posts here about people who have taken lessons... 99.99999999999956% of them all say the same thing - "he showed me flaws in my stroke" lol

What do you think allows the player to be able to USE that high level knowledge consistently? It's fixing flaws in the stroke first!

Hardly any of them actually teach high level pool. You know, the secrets, the physics, the knowledge... Just stroke...

We teach all levels and facets of pool education, including everything you mentioned, and much more.

At your level, you need that more than anything. Good luck finding somebody who actually knows that stuff. The ones that do, don't teach... and they aint telling you cause they play competitively /shrug
Click to expand...

Actually, imo, it's the opposite. The OP has had a brief chance to see what's good, and what can be better in his setup and delivery.
It takes time to integrate new information, and your competitive game will likely suffer immediately after some good, detailed instruction. That's why we tell you to give your competitive game a rest, while you integrate a new process, mentally and physically, into your game.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott-

I think you go about it backwards for players who already have a decent handle on the basics. Take a B player, for example.

Wouldnt she gain a stronger game from you if you showed them the physics involed so they could understand aiming compensation?

How about let them see, through their own stroke? Once they get a taste of their new power, they will be desperate to be consistant, IMO. Then show them how to reproduce it everytime...

You refuse to teach anybody anything unless they take your starter course AFAIK. I think that is the wrong approach for a higher level player. For the average starter? sure, show the basics... For the B player, show them the secrets then the stroke...

I think you would offer a better service that way. At least for me it would have and most other serious players I have come to know...
 
CaptiveBred said:
You refuse to teach anybody anything unless they take your starter course AFAIK. I think that is the wrong approach for a higher level player. For the average starter? sure, show the basics... For the B player, show them the secrets then the stroke...

I think you would offer a better service that way. At least for me it would have and most other serious players I have come to know...
Click to expand...

CaptiveBred...Where in the world did you get that notion? :confused: I've never refused anybody anything...and neither has Randyg. The people who come to me WANTING advanced knowledge can have it anytime. The problem is that they can't replicate a stroke well enough to be able to apply it consistently. I'll still show them, even if they can't do it. :rolleyes: Then, at least they have my stroke to try to copy, if they don't want to learn how to fit their own stroke to their bodies.

By far, more people come to me WANTING to learn how to stroke more consistently...and consequently that is what we work on. As far as better players not needing any work on your stroke, you're way off there too. You can be a B player...or even an A, and still have problems with your stroke. Many pros have come to pool school to better understand their own strokes. They weren't seeking playing knowledge...they're ALREADY pro players! :D They come to us to learn what they don't know, about their setup and delivery.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Catahula said:
Lessions...I think you can have those surgically removed. Oh, lessons...nevermind.:)
Click to expand...


So i don't spell so good! ha i went to school in california manw what can i sae or is it say what ever
 
Lets not let this thread get off topic and become some sort of challenge the instructor standoffish thread. just opinions on lessons (not lessions, ha) not on instructors specifically
 
poolplayer2093 said:
Lets not let this thread get off topic and become some sort of challenge the instructor standoffish thread. just opinions on lessons (not lessions, ha) not on instructors specifically
Click to expand...

poolplayer2093...And it's not! A good qualified instructor gives the student what they want. Most want information on how to be more consistent...which has it's roots in good fundamentals and a great repeatable mental and physical setup and delivery process...aka a great preshot routine!
Knowledge without application has a limited value. For certain, video review is imperative, regardless of what you're trying to learn.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
If a shooter has an inaccurate and inconsistent stroke, and their speed control is poor, their attempts to control the cue ball accurately and consistently will be futile. It will make for a discouraging lesson and game. It's better to develop the necessary basic skills before attempting to learn skills that are dependent on them.

There are many little details about the 'basic' mechanics that if understood, make cue ball control much easier to master. Speed control, and understanding spin and friction are not well understood by many B players. They tend to have a high level understanding of them, but not the details. These are all covered in our first class which we require all of our students to take. Every one of our students has been amazed about how much they didn't know and how valuable that information will be to them. Knowledge and practice provide them the skills and confidence to deal with tough situations instead of guesswork and feel. This enables them to win more games.

It would be a disservice to our students to start them in our second class. They would struggle because of the gaps in their knowledge and skills.
 
Lessons...

Think about it like this... if your a 'B' or even an 'A' player are you consistantly winning as often as a pro player? Most likely the answer is NO. For a reason. Their fundamentals and mental game are stronger. For a reason. Not all pro's are naturally gifted.. some have had to actually work their butt off and a lot have even gotten formal lessons. Maybe you need to try someone different to get lessons from that you feel communicates with you better. By that, I mean, someone who will explain 'why' you need to change something in your mechanics or pattern play or whatever. I find that helps a lot when you can logically explain why yes or why no. Till then, watch a lot of videos and study the pro's in action. Are you doing what they are doing? They have been down the path you are on. Good luck and stick with it either way.
 
Last edited:
I don't want to reveal too many secrets, as I intend to provide a full review, but I attended Scott's Pool School about seven weeks ago, and am just now climbing back to where I used to play.

That's right, I've been playing worse ever since attending his school, have not regained my level of play that I used to shoot at.

As Scott will attest, I took his school very seriously, and improved, by his standards, a lot from day one to day three.

That means I was able to do what he asked.

This didn't mean what I did is now automatic, or a habit. Those types of things take time to change. It takes weeks and months, not hours and days.

As Scott says, real change takes as long as it takes. This is why I refuse to do a review of his class, even though I'm dying to, until I come full circle. He provide the tools, now I have to learn to use them to improve my own game.

You see, here is the thing; like most here, I have small library of books, tapes, DVDs, access to good players, and attended and viewed a bunch of pro events. I thought I had a good, solid, textbook stroke, like many of you may believe, based on the same things I have read, saw, or done. Maybe you even do, but I know I didn't, even though I thought I did.

Long story short, the tape does not lie; Scott's review of my stroke on tape brought to light what it was that I thought I should be doing but wasn't.
 
Last edited:
take them

if you find an instructer that you like, take the lessons. i am an a/b player and the one thing that i have seen in my own game and others is the shots that people miss are the easy ones. why?? because somthing in their fundamentals is out of sorts. alignment, stance stroke who knows. i have always said that anyone can make the awsome hard shots but a champion never misses the easy ones. build your fundamentals. that is what pool is about. keep track of a session of nine ball and see how many easy shots you miss and how simple the out was after. in other words if you made that simple long straight in shot it was a tic tac toe out. it is surprising to me. if your stroke is repeatable your consistancy goes way up and so will your game. i get a lesson evey 2 to 6 months for what i call a tune up. i also don't play but once or twice a week usually wich is not good but evry time i get my tune up i play better. just my 2 cents. take the lessons or recieve one. if ya know what i mean. either way it will cost ya.:eek: :D
 
I went to randyg and scott lee's pool school and worked on my fundementals. I also tool lessons from scott. I had a list of things I wanted to know. He showed me what I asked for while reinforcing my fundementals. I once went to a "pro" who was an experienced player, pro level. He didn't want to answer my questions and he wanted to drastically change my stance. Needless to say I never went back to him. I wish I had gone to randy and scott years ago.
 
CaptiveBred said:
Scott-

I think you go about it backwards for players who already have a decent handle on the basics. Take a B player, for example.

Wouldnt she gain a stronger game from you if you showed them the physics involed so they could understand aiming compensation?

How about let them see, through their own stroke? Once they get a taste of their new power, they will be desperate to be consistant, IMO. Then show them how to reproduce it everytime...

You refuse to teach anybody anything unless they take your starter course AFAIK. I think that is the wrong approach for a higher level player. For the average starter? sure, show the basics... For the B player, show them the secrets then the stroke...

I think you would offer a better service that way. At least for me it would have and most other serious players I have come to know...
Click to expand...
I have to defend Scott on this one. When I had my first and only lesson from Scott I dictated to him exactly what I wanted him to coach me on and he stayed with my plan plus he added a considerable amount of information I hadn't even thought of.

The lesson started with us playing some 3C. The playing around was lasting so long I started to wonder when is this guy going to start teaching me something. I thought gee wiz am I paying him all this so he has some free table time between road trips? Then all of a sudden it starts.

What was going on is he was evaluating my level of play. We had never met before and it takes some time. Scott is extremely realistic in his coaching. He knows that there are several paths to get the same results and he doesn't try to change things that work. Now he will inform you on what the book says but is careful to consider and evaluate if a certain defect in fundamentals is affecting your game. If there's no downside he WILL NOT try to change it. If there is he will let you know.

Most of the people who post here about taking a lesson seems to me are posting about their very first lesson in their entire life. My first lesson knocked me for a loupe for over 6 months. I couldn't hit a rail much less a ball. But after that my game jumped several notches.

Lastly and I've harped on this before. Many or most professional athletes have personal coaches, even the worlds best have a coach. Being the coach of the worlds best player ever in the history or their game, What is there left to teach?
FUNDAMENTALS when their game is falling off.

I think all good coaches take this approach.
 
My opinion on lessons are that there are no 'good teachers' but only good teacher student relationships. Sometimes you have to try different teachers till you find one that teaches in your language. :) Everyone teaches different ways and all students learn differently. They don't always match up perfectly.

My other thought on lessons is that the teacher has to know the intention of the student to take appropriate line of course. For instance , I'm a certified instructor for another sport. I start right off by asking what the students short and long term goals are. They usally fall in one of two catagories after that , those that want to make it to the highest level (Pro) in which I would start by breaking down all thier form issues and starting as close to textbook as is possible. That will usually be a long ugly road at first (depending on who long that have been playing) but with focus on long term results that will free them as much as possible from physical limits. This is not for alot of 'older' students in most cases. ;)

Then you have those who have played awaile and just want basic instruction and help that will improve thier game more or less , now. There people you pretty much work with what they have and try and give them easily attainable short term goals.

Biggest issues in all cases is time. Most people don't realize the amount neede to make real long term improvement. They needs to be discussed right up front and made clear by both parties in order for thier to be satisfactiojn at the end of the relationship.

IMO. :)
 
i wouldn't really call my problems fundimental problems they're not perfect but they're ok. the more i think about it my problem is probably more concentration based.
when people bring up lessons fundamentals always come in but there're plenty of good players (pro and otherwise) that have less than perfect fundamentals. what i'm thinking is what's next. after fundamentals what takes you to the next level? speed control? pattern play? all i read about it fundamentals do these other veriables not come into play.
 
Thats an easy one

Time. Effort. And PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. "In order to walk the path, one must become the path".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top