Your thoughts on outrageous cue prices

DeeDeeCues said:
Lambros pins appear to be a 60deg thread form, why would I have a problem with that? The bevel seat is a great idea, with the caveat that it appears to leave a sharp edge on the butt joint collar, which may be prone to damage. What I have a problem with is that his website claims more cueball control because of the joint. I'd love to see that proven.

I don't think mezz cues are junk. I think they are a fine cue with an effing stupid pin design. I think any cue that takes a lot of effort to simply screw the shaft onto the butt suffers from a design flaw. I believe that screw threads should be utilized only in tension and that alignment should either be an effect of that tension, or provided by another feature like the Lambros bevel or a pilot (though using both is over-constraining. Not the end of the world, but having two concentric locating features means that one is not doing what the designer thinks it is).

I'll relate all of this to cell phones. Apple used to use a proprietary cable. This cable worked, but they wouldn't work with any non-apple devices. Every other device used an industry standard USB. Apple recently changed because of European mandate. The 60degree vee thread profile has been industry (actual industry, not specifically the cue industry) standard for around 150yrs. The vee thread profile was chosen for a reason, there are actual calculations, experiments, and engineering behind that thread. Wavy joints and radial are the result of hucksters making something that looks cool and selling it as a better solution. They are then able to sell taps for $300 because cue repair people will buy them to work on the cues that many times the factory won't work on. How is any of that good for the cue industry as a whole? How is that good for a customer?
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With all of the different and unique pins available it seems like people in the cue industry are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
 
most are complaining about prices of boutique higher end cues from big name makers. just like a gucci handbag. they are for show not play. you can play with them but it wont improve your game. just your mindset.

you can find used cues for less than 50 or hundred dollars that play perfectly fine and blind folded you cant pick them out by hit.
 
Few bullet points here given I've commented to this thread earlier:
  1. I think all the pin choices these days are subjective at best. I know what I like and I'm glad it has been a standard for a long time (3/8x10, even better if it's modified). I like how it threads early with what seems more thread contact point to me plus I like the overall look and feel. I will never play with a quick release or a custom pin like a Pechauer. I will not play with a Predator cue for any reason, not just their pin choices.
  2. Everything is just so expensive now and people have to make a living, given it is a wood supplier, a custom cue maker or a retail shop / seller. A lot of restaurants are not making it for this very reason plus their already low margins and employees wanting more pay. Cue makers are really no different. My Carmeli I bought for under $2000 in early 2019 now sells for over double. Is it the best cue I've played, yes and so is my Jim Pierce right behind it. Both are leather wrapped 6 point SW cues with beautiful woods and such sharp points.
  3. Cue (custom and production) inventory across the board seems to be higher than it was 1 or 2 years ago when the market was really hot. Pool players are getting older and the younger generation is not close to replacing those lost older generation player numbers. Does this trend allow custom cue makers to survive / profit in a sustainable manner, who knows?
  4. Market conditions, inflation and stagflation seem to be at play here also...
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Lambros pins appear to be a 60deg thread form, why would I have a problem with that? The bevel seat is a great idea, with the caveat that it appears to leave a sharp edge on the butt joint collar, which may be prone to damage. What I have a problem with is that his website claims more cueball control because of the joint. I'd love to see that proven.

I don't think mezz cues are junk. I think they are a fine cue with an effing stupid pin design. I think any cue that takes a lot of effort to simply screw the shaft onto the butt suffers from a design flaw. I believe that screw threads should be utilized only in tension and that alignment should either be an effect of that tension, or provided by another feature like the Lambros bevel or a pilot (though using both is over-constraining. Not the end of the world, but having two concentric locating features means that one is not doing what the designer thinks it is).

I'll relate all of this to cell phones. Apple used to use a proprietary cable. This cable worked, but they wouldn't work with any non-apple devices. Every other device used an industry standard USB. Apple recently changed because of European mandate. The 60degree vee thread profile has been industry (actual industry, not specifically the cue industry) standard for around 150yrs. The vee thread profile was chosen for a reason, there are actual calculations, experiments, and engineering behind that thread. Wavy joints and radial are the result of hucksters making something that looks cool and selling it as a better solution. They are then able to sell taps for $300 because cue repair people will buy them to work on the cues that many times the factory won't work on. How is any of that good for the cue industry as a whole? How is that good for a customer?
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Older Schon cues had a really big Pilot too, and were a little difficult to screw tight, at the last few turns. I had a newer Schon (from after Evan Clarke left Schon), and it screwed together nothing like the older Schon cues. It screwed together, and wobbled all over the place while screwing it together, just like any Joss cue would, for example. The older Schon cue shafts did not wobble while screwing the shaft on. They remained perfectly straight, and the last few turns, it would be very tight. That is the feeling I get when screwing together a Mezz cue, with the United Joint. Actually, any Piloted 5/16x14 cue butt, with a United Joint Mezz shaft.

Your wording goes way over my head. I am just not that smart, and do not understand any of that stuff. I think that Mezz are great cues though, just like the older Schon cues for example. The newer stuff from Schon does not seem to be as high quality as the older stuff, from when Evan Clarke ran the shop.
 
I was kind of skipping this thread after the first few posts. I have a look now and it turned into a joint pin / joint type discussion.

I have not read every post in this thread so forgive me if this link to an old thread was already posted.

It always reminds me of this: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/blind-joint-type-test.494485/#post-6405886

Rhetorical questions/topics:
Wood pin cues are unusual in pool, but common in carom.
Brass joints are uncommon in pool (except junk cues), but common in snooker.
The Layani conical joint face is interesting.
Then, of course, alternative materials for inserts like phenolic materials (modern Joss for instance) and nylon materials (Huebler and Adam for instance).
Robinson cue joints were interesting. Remember pictures of him standing on the cue joint of a cue suspended between two chairs?
Schuler joints are interesting.
Have all these been banged around? (pun intended)

Fasteners are an entire field of engineering. How a cue feels is closer to black magic and preferences are 100% subjective.
 
Chopdoc said:
I was kind of skipping this thread after the first few posts. I have a look now and it turned into a joint pin / joint type discussion.

I have not read every post in this thread so forgive me if this link to an old thread was already posted.

It always reminds me of this: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/blind-joint-type-test.494485/#post-6405886

Rhetorical questions/topics:
Wood pin cues are unusual in pool, but common in carom.
Brass joints are uncommon in pool (except junk cues), but common in snooker.
The Layani conical joint face is interesting.
Then, of course, alternative materials for inserts like phenolic materials (modern Joss for instance) and nylon materials (Huebler and Adam for instance).
Robinson cue joints were interesting. Remember pictures of him standing on the cue joint of a cue suspended between two chairs?
Schuler joints are interesting.
Have all these been banged around? (pun intended)

Fasteners are an entire field of engineering. How a cue feels is closer to black magic and preferences are 100% subjective.
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I disagree if your statement about wood pin cues deals with 3/8x10 or radial into wood threaded shafts for pool.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
I am just not that smart, and do not understand any of that stuff.
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Sorry, it took me a while to respond to this, I hate when people make comments like that about themselves. It is obvious from your posts that you are intelligent enough to learn about what I've posted if it were important enough to you (and I'm definitely not saying that it should be). I've just had a lot different experiences with fasteners and designing locating features for assemblies.

I tend to post things on this issue in a way that non-engineers don't and shouldn't understand. Probably not the best decision on my part unless I want to sound like an a-hole (and I know many think that I am).

Anyhow, thanks for following along civil manner.

Have a great evening.
 
Ascue said:
Even a year ago a simple merry widow was 500 to 750 from many cuemakers. Now it's 1000 to 2000. Thats not inflation, it's gouging. People put up a 10 year joss on facebook for what a new one costs. I wanted to get a scruggs. I backed off. Not gonna pay those prices. Just saw a titleist conversion by tascarella for 4500. Not me. Not ever. What you think?
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Alot of stuff that is overpriced never sells.

If I sell something it is priced to move because I'm not dealing with tire kickers.
 
i only mostly have 5/16 14 pin joints as its what most all the older top shafts had. except palmer and paradice with a 20.

and still easy to find a shaft that fits with that joint. and will match most butts.
 
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