Z2 vs. 314-2

S

sytesounds

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been playing with a Z2 for the last couple of years and just recently started playing with a 314-2. Based on reading, I was under the impression that the smaller diameter shaft imparted more spin on the cue ball, however my new experience is quite the opposite. For example, on a long draw shot, I would have to put quite a stroke on the ball to draw the cue ball back. With the 314, I can hit with about 60-70% the power with the same draw affect. Same goes for applying English. I'm finding I can finesse the ball around the table much more while hitting the shots with less power. The result is potting more balls as I'm not hitting the shots as hard. I'm also finding my target positions with much more ease. Once again, I'm surprised as this contradicts much of what I've read on the matter. Has anyone else had the same experience?


I also noticed that very few pros use the z2 versus the great many that play with the 314-2.

Anyhow just thought I'd see what other people's experiences are.
 
sytesounds said:
I've been playing with a Z2 for the last couple of years and just recently started playing with a 314-2. Based on reading, I was under the impression that the smaller diameter shaft imparted more spin on the cue ball, however my new experience is quite the opposite. For example, on a long draw shot, I would have to put quite a stroke on the ball to draw the cue ball back. With the 314, I can hit with about 60-70% the power with the same draw affect. Same goes for applying English. I'm finding I can finesse the ball around the table much more while hitting the shots with less power. The result is potting more balls as I'm not hitting the shots as hard. I'm also finding my target positions with much more ease. Once again, I'm surprised as this contradicts much of what I've read on the matter. Has anyone else had the same experience?


I also noticed that very few pros use the z2 versus the great many that play with the 314-2.

Anyhow just thought I'd see what other people's experiences are.
Click to expand...

I used the Z2 for 2 years, Gene had me switch to 314-2 2 months ago. He trusts me with it more than with the Z2.
 
One man's experience.

02-24-2012, 01:18 PM

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I really don't understand people saying you need to be more precise with the Z2 vs. the 314-2. Or any other smaller diameter shaft vs. a more tradtional size. But maybe that's just me...

I played for 15 years with a standard Schon shaft, turned down to about 12.25 or so. When I first tried a predator, after a long layoff (6 years), I gravitated more to the Z2, plus that was the one I got to test hit longer, so I bought that. Played with it for 2+ years, loved it.

For some reason I wanted to try a thicker shaft, so I tried a 314-2 and eventually bought one of those. After some trial and error, I ended up switching to the 314-2 and have been playing with it constantly for the past few months.

I can play the same with either shaft, I certainly don't feel like one requires any more precision than the other. Maybe it's the sight picture of a thinner shaft that gives you the perception that you have to be more precise, but unless someone can scientifically explain to me that it's true I don't believe it, you can still move the contact point on either shaft over .5mm, 1mm, etc. and fine tune english in a very similar manner, one just looks like it's more off center than the other.

Spin is the same - another myth I hear people say - I can shoot every stroke shot with the 314-2 same as with the Z2. Yes, in theory you can get slightly lower on the ball without hitting the table with a smaller shaft, and therefore have slightly more clearance on extreme draw shots, but the difference is so minor it certainly wouldn't be a factor in normal play.

Deflection is less with the Z2 - while I can certainly shoot all center ball shots interchangably, I definitely had to retool my english adjustments for the 314-2 and have to be very conscious of that when switching back and forth. However, I do find the 314-2 to be more "standard" - far more good players seem to play with a shaft in the 12.5 - 13 range as opposed to under 12. And even though the Z2 is stiffer with it's taper, I feel a more solid hit with the 314-2 because of the larger width, just feels more solid.

I may end up switching back again, who knows, they are both good shafts. I think it just comes down to which thickness is closer to what you are used to or what you prefer and which feels better to you. Try both if you can for 30 - 60 minutes before you buy, you'll save yourself having to wonder later on like I did. Hope some of this helps...

Scott
 
I had the 314-2 for a year then switched to a Z2 and have been playing with it the last 3 months. I don't know if it's the shaft or just the normal progression of my game but for sure I am playing better.

I think I get about the same amount of english as I'm not really hitting further away from centerball except on my drawshot. I've never been afraid to hit way down on the cueball and the thinner Z2 allows me to hit even lower and hence get more backspin.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the 314-2 vs the 314-2 (Fat shaft) ?

Would appreciate the feedback.
 
I played with a 314 for years. Recently got a Z2 the only diff to me is the taper ,314 has a pro taper and Z2 has a uro taper. It took a few sessions to get used to it but I feel they are all the same hitting. IMHO
 
On my Joss butt, I played with a 314-2 for 10 months, after that I switch to Z2 and play now with it for 8 months. I can't say is a huge difference between them, but from my experience the 314-2 is more forgiving on bad strokes, with Z2 you just can't get down the shot and shoot without any preparation. However, sometimes I switch to standard 13mm joss shaft and I like it more :)

PS I'm using TOI, so I don't use so much English.
 
You have to focus much more with the z-2.Forget about science and alot
of the experiments you'll read.A bigger tip is more forgiving on longshots for sure,
no matter what you here.
You'll get all your answers if you play with both.
 
How you need to hit to get a certain action depends not just on the tip size.

Taper is a big difference between the shafts, I have played with a Z2 and it's stiffer, which will of course cause it to react differently with the cue ball.

Also the tip diameter makes a big difference, small tip with a dime radius needs more precision on the hit, and will spin more with the same effort, providing you are hitting the same spot.

With a larger tip and a flatter one, you may be thinking you are hitting in the same area, but due to the larger contact area you are aiming and hitting, you may not be hitting in the same area after all.
 
I've used the Z2 a little and the 314 Fat Shaft a lot. And even more OB2 and classic pro.

I don't believe there's any shot you can do with the 314, that you can't do with the Z2 (or vice versa).
I believe if you hit two shots nearly the exact same way (same speed, same contact point on the cue ball)
then you will get nearly identical results.

In fact I'd go as far as to say all of these shafts play pretty similar. I can switch to any of them
and make no changes to my game and everything works as expected.

There are a couple of things that can possibly affect your sidespin and draw performance.
Some of them are really subtle and don't have much to do with how the shaft is made.

One is the diameter of the tip redefines how much english you get with 'one tip' or 'two tips' of spin
if you happen to apply english that way.

Another is that one shaft glides more easily through your hands, meaning you need less
muscle to ramp it up to a certain speed.

A stiffer shaft transfers more energy to the object ball,
and I think it's possible for two shafts to have different stiffness but similar deflection.

Slight differences in deflection change how fat the object ball gets hit, which changes
the path of the cue ball to the rail. In turn this results in a totally different position.
This can make it look like one shaft spun the ball better than the other.

You might be scared to aim as low as usual or as far out to the side, when the tip looks too skinny
or too fat. You don't trust it as much and subconsciously apply less spin than normal.

And then there's the the "new cue effect" - without any scientific proof, you just feel like the new cue plays better
because it's new and you like your new toy. Or there's the opposite - the "old cue nostalgia" effect. You miss
your old cue and the one doesn't feel as comfortable as familiar, and you can become convinced the old one
was special and played better.

I guess none of this was exactly the answer you wanted but my point is:
don't overthink it. Find one that's comfortable and get used to it.
Don't worry that the shaft construction somehow reduces your spin by like 20% because it definitely does not.
 
Personally, I think its all in your own head! As of the past year or so, ive been using the bustamante method,,,, "look and shoot"! I do prefer my joss butt with my old 314 shaft 30" version, but I can adapt fairly quickly with anything! I've got all the predator shafts except the fat, a few minutes I can adjust! Is there a difference, yes, but its mostly in your head! Scientifically, you have to ask yourself,,, are you hitting the ball the same exact way and spot? Key is where your hitting! Get yourself a Jim rempe ball and do your own experiments! That's what I did, and in the end, it was all virtually the same! Experiment with it, its fun! Plus you will surely learn something about yourself if you pay attention to the minor details!
 
Well said sir..

CreeDo said:
I've used the Z2 a little and the 314 Fat Shaft a lot. And even more OB2 and classic pro.

I don't believe there's any shot you can do with the 314, that you can't do with the Z2 (or vice versa).
I believe if you hit two shots nearly the exact same way (same speed, same contact point on the cue ball)
then you will get nearly identical results.

In fact I'd go as far as to say all of these shafts play pretty similar. I can switch to any of them
and make no changes to my game and everything works as expected.

There are a couple of things that can possibly affect your sidespin and draw performance.
Some of them are really subtle and don't have much to do with how the shaft is made.

One is the diameter of the tip redefines how much english you get with 'one tip' or 'two tips' of spin
if you happen to apply english that way.

Another is that one shaft glides more easily through your hands, meaning you need less
muscle to ramp it up to a certain speed.

A stiffer shaft transfers more energy to the object ball,
and I think it's possible for two shafts to have different stiffness but similar deflection.

Slight differences in deflection change how fat the object ball gets hit, which changes
the path of the cue ball to the rail. In turn this results in a totally different position.
This can make it look like one shaft spun the ball better than the other.

You might be scared to aim as low as usual or as far out to the side, when the tip looks too skinny
or too fat. You don't trust it as much and subconsciously apply less spin than normal.

And then there's the the "new cue effect" - without any scientific proof, you just feel like the new cue plays better
because it's new and you like your new toy. Or there's the opposite - the "old cue nostalgia" effect. You miss
your old cue and the one doesn't feel as comfortable as familiar, and you can become convinced the old one
was special and played better.

I guess none of this was exactly the answer you wanted but my point is:
don't overthink it. Find one that's comfortable and get used to it.
Don't worry that the shaft construction somehow reduces your spin by like 20% because it definitely does not.
Click to expand...

Amen! My thoughts exactly...
 
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