ChrisBanks
Banned
Is this the impression you want to give people about this forum? Come now, more compassion, and less anger might be the solution.
Zero X System
- Thread starter david cooksey
- Start date
Is this the impression you want to give people about this forum? Come now, more compassion, and less anger might be the solution.
You are absolutely correct. I received a PM from a very new member asking me if this was the wrong forum for them and if I know of one where they can ask questions and learn without the fear of being ridiculed.
I am not interested in making this a talent vs. training debate. There have been plenty of those on AZB which are easy to find. Suffice it to say that the vast majority of us here are not pros and not seeking to become pros. We are pool geeks who like to challenge ourselves as much as we can with the available material that we come across. As geeks we aren't likely to be hurt by tinkering with our games using just about any advice we come across.
That's ultimately what this is all about. A guy most of us never heard of made a pretty good set of videos teaching various aspects of pool. Some people were critical of the material which is fine. What's out there is there to be critiqued as well as used. The geeks among us can read both sides and go to the table and keep what we like and discard the rest.
Some of us like to gamble a little. If we find a nugget or two that helps us to win where we might not otherwise have known what to do then great. If we embrace a "wrong" technique and our win percentage goes down then hopefully we have enough brains to figure that out and fix it. If not then we just become better prey for those who also like to gamble. Either way we feed the pool ecosystem.
Let's keep it on track here. If you like what Tor did then support him. If don't then don't. He isn't the greatest instructor that ever lived, just a guy who shoots real good from what I can see and who is willing to take the time to edit his videos so that they are easy to follow.
We live in a great era. Honestly people talk about the golden age of pool but when I look back at the available videos I don't see players that are truly better than players we have today. Just look at Europe. 20 years ago they were completely dominated by the American players. Now the standard has risen dramatically and this is due in large part to the availability of more instructors and more quality instructional material.
And no I am not talking about the standouts like Lassiter and trying to compare him to Archer. I am talking about the average skill levels. The average player today is a better and more knowledgeable player than 20 years ago and certainly more knowledgeable than 40 years ago in my opinion.
And for that we have guys like Tor and Joe Tucker and Mike Page and Bob Jewett and the countless other people from average level enthusiasts to pros who have taken the time to put out a wealth of material.
I firmly believe that a person could go from an absolute beginner to about and APA 5-7 solely taking their instruction from YouTube videos. They don't have to spend a penny in formal instruction. Don't need to ask a single other person for advice. I think that there is enough out there on the net for free to allow any reasonably intelligent person to reach a decent level of proficiency from their basement pool room.
Having said that I also believe that anyone who locks themselves up with Robert Byrne's works could get there as well but for that they would need to spend some money.
Think about how huge this is and what a change it makes in the world. I have had complete strangers tell me they have seen all my videos on CTE and that this has inspired them to play more pool. That is very gratifying to hear that and I am not in the least an instructor. So I can only guess that the people out there who are putting out genuinely good content are helping even more people to enjoy pool.
WHY WHY WHY do we have to be nasty to each other about this? I mean I understand the fun in "arguing" on the net, it's a free sport that anyone can play. But at the end of the day does it produce anything that is helpful?
Check it out, when I go to shows it often happens that a group of us get together and swap shots, kind of like what I described above with Massey and Artie. We don't argue, we don't name call, we don't say that the other guy is clueless. No, we show, we observe, we figure out, we build on each other's knowledge.
Why can't this forum be the same way???
Why can't we critique without the name calling and insults? Why can't we critique by showing off our way to do things? Why can't we LINK to all the relevant information so that all the readers can follow those links and increase their own knowledge and thus be able to point someone else in the right direction?
My opinion is that if we care about the game of pool as much as we say we do then we would do all that we can to encourage more people to play it.
That's ultimately what this is all about. A guy most of us never heard of made a pretty good set of videos teaching various aspects of pool. Some people were critical of the material which is fine. What's out there is there to be critiqued as well as used. The geeks among us can read both sides and go to the table and keep what we like and discard the rest.
Some of us like to gamble a little. If we find a nugget or two that helps us to win where we might not otherwise have known what to do then great. If we embrace a "wrong" technique and our win percentage goes down then hopefully we have enough brains to figure that out and fix it. If not then we just become better prey for those who also like to gamble. Either way we feed the pool ecosystem.
Let's keep it on track here. If you like what Tor did then support him. If don't then don't. He isn't the greatest instructor that ever lived, just a guy who shoots real good from what I can see and who is willing to take the time to edit his videos so that they are easy to follow.
We live in a great era. Honestly people talk about the golden age of pool but when I look back at the available videos I don't see players that are truly better than players we have today. Just look at Europe. 20 years ago they were completely dominated by the American players. Now the standard has risen dramatically and this is due in large part to the availability of more instructors and more quality instructional material.
And no I am not talking about the standouts like Lassiter and trying to compare him to Archer. I am talking about the average skill levels. The average player today is a better and more knowledgeable player than 20 years ago and certainly more knowledgeable than 40 years ago in my opinion.
And for that we have guys like Tor and Joe Tucker and Mike Page and Bob Jewett and the countless other people from average level enthusiasts to pros who have taken the time to put out a wealth of material.
I firmly believe that a person could go from an absolute beginner to about and APA 5-7 solely taking their instruction from YouTube videos. They don't have to spend a penny in formal instruction. Don't need to ask a single other person for advice. I think that there is enough out there on the net for free to allow any reasonably intelligent person to reach a decent level of proficiency from their basement pool room.
Having said that I also believe that anyone who locks themselves up with Robert Byrne's works could get there as well but for that they would need to spend some money.
Think about how huge this is and what a change it makes in the world. I have had complete strangers tell me they have seen all my videos on CTE and that this has inspired them to play more pool. That is very gratifying to hear that and I am not in the least an instructor. So I can only guess that the people out there who are putting out genuinely good content are helping even more people to enjoy pool.
WHY WHY WHY do we have to be nasty to each other about this? I mean I understand the fun in "arguing" on the net, it's a free sport that anyone can play. But at the end of the day does it produce anything that is helpful?
Check it out, when I go to shows it often happens that a group of us get together and swap shots, kind of like what I described above with Massey and Artie. We don't argue, we don't name call, we don't say that the other guy is clueless. No, we show, we observe, we figure out, we build on each other's knowledge.
Why can't this forum be the same way???
Why can't we critique without the name calling and insults? Why can't we critique by showing off our way to do things? Why can't we LINK to all the relevant information so that all the readers can follow those links and increase their own knowledge and thus be able to point someone else in the right direction?
My opinion is that if we care about the game of pool as much as we say we do then we would do all that we can to encourage more people to play it.
John, a couple of things. One, if you read my original post on this thread, I was quite complimentary of Tor's video's. I apparently was one of the first 200 to purchase as I got an email saying I'll get the bank video for free. I whole heartedly agree with you in how great it is to have access to all the materials out there. Even the best have some flaws that could be critiqued and even the worst have a thing or two to offer.
I didn't start this little battle here. ChrisBanks quoted my post in a very condescending tone then his mental moron cousin English had to jump in and add his $.02 (even though one would typically want some change if that's what they paid for his opinion). You tell me what kind of chump publishes people's names they have on ignore? Really, just how stupid is that. Why not just ignore them and be done with it? Then to top it off, he either really doesn't have them on ignore and peeks all the time. LMAO Frankly, I'm a bit surprised the Mods here haven't made him cease with that crap as I've seen Mods do on other sites when something similar happened. All it does is potentially incite the named people to attack him. And then he's such a loser and whiner, he plays the victim and wounded party. Based on his internet persona, I'd guess that is he's the same kind of whiney loser in real life.
I've had my say on those two, I'm actually doing what I should have done a while ago, i.e., put him and ChrisBanks on ignore. I won't publish it in my sig tag nor will I find the need to peek. I've yet to see either of them make a single post of any value, it should be easy to avoid the temptation to check in on them.
John, BTW, I still think it is nature vs. nurture. :thumbup:
I didn't start this little battle here. ChrisBanks quoted my post in a very condescending tone then his mental moron cousin English had to jump in and add his $.02 (even though one would typically want some change if that's what they paid for his opinion). You tell me what kind of chump publishes people's names they have on ignore? Really, just how stupid is that. Why not just ignore them and be done with it? Then to top it off, he either really doesn't have them on ignore and peeks all the time. LMAO Frankly, I'm a bit surprised the Mods here haven't made him cease with that crap as I've seen Mods do on other sites when something similar happened. All it does is potentially incite the named people to attack him. And then he's such a loser and whiner, he plays the victim and wounded party. Based on his internet persona, I'd guess that is he's the same kind of whiney loser in real life.
I've had my say on those two, I'm actually doing what I should have done a while ago, i.e., put him and ChrisBanks on ignore. I won't publish it in my sig tag nor will I find the need to peek. I've yet to see either of them make a single post of any value, it should be easy to avoid the temptation to check in on them.
John, BTW, I still think it is nature vs. nurture. :thumbup:
ChrisBanks
Banned
Ask the Hippie if I have made a valuable post here!
But, but, but, I thought this thread was about the Zero X Kicking video.
Sorry, I guess that is too boring. It was about time we took it in a different direction anyway.
Ciivilty at it's best!
Civility at it's best & I get a red rep from Bob Jewett for asking a question in post #186.
Civility at it's best & I get a red rep from Bob Jewett for asking a question in post #186.
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ChrisBanks
Banned
I feel like this forum is in a constant state of war! And I do mean war. You cannot turn your back for a second without having another insult heaved your way. And you get the feeling that if the two parties were engaged in person, a physical altercation would ensue. And you have any wonder why AZBilliards is in decline? It is imploding.
You are Pocket Point, aren't you. Admit it.
I just wanted to bump this per the Clarification.
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Ok...bought the Kicking System video. And I will be damned but I can bank and kick again! The video showed me a couple of tricks I had not seen before but the real help was that the video made me think more when going to a rail.
My buddy Chris G. turned me onto this before I got to this thread but I think he got the info from here first.
Thanks for the info! Good stuff!
Ken
Ken,
You are going to have a blast using the information Tor has provided.
I watched the whole video 3 times, yup....... 6 hours. I am now learning 1 phase at a time.
Pay attention to the kind of strokes he is using. When the shot requires follow thru you will see his stick go thru the QB. Shots that require the angle to be held he uses a punch type stroke and does not follow thru.
Happy New Year.
John
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Ken,
You are going to have a blast using the information Tor has provided.
I watched the whole 3 times, yup....... 6 hours. I am now learning 1 phase at a time.
Pay attention to the kind of strokes he is using. When the shot requires follow thru you will see his stick go thru the QB. Shots that require the angle to be held he uses a punch type stroke and does not follow thru.
Happy New Year.
John
John,
How many times have you been told that the follow through can not effect the CB because it is gone in 1,000 of a second?:wink:
Best Wishes,
HebrewHustler
Banned
Shalom my English friend. The follow through is in fact a very important aspect of the stroke and if you prepare for it well, you can be sure that you will hit the ball in just the right way for it to go where you want to.
Welcome.
I'm not English.
I have just been using it for 46 years since I was 13 years old.
To some on AZB you have just 'blasphemed'.
Best Wishes,
Nobody says follow through is unimportant - it just doesn't do what you think.
pj
chgo
It has no effect. Trust me, I used to be like you until I looked at it with a little common sense.
There's nothing you can do with an extended follow through, that I can't do without.
I know that the ball is gone right after it leaves the tip. Cause & affect. The follow through is the result of what led up to it.
One's follow through in golf can be very telling to someone in the know.
Best Wishes,