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APA 9-Ball Foul Question

R
heater451 said:
Only did a little rules searching online, before deciding to post this, and found fouls resulting in Ball-In-Hand, but not regarding fouls and 'dead' balls. Also, some league guys consulted ChatGPT, but I've seen enough AI stuff to not really trust it for this kind of thing.

APA 9-Ball, a ball is potted, but the player leaves his cue tip on the table. The cue ball returns and hits the cue (shaft). Certainly, it's a foul, and ball-in-hand to the opponent, but does that make the potted ball dead? I am under the impression that it needs to be a scratch to invalidate the point, but also see the logic in "any foul committed during the shot" resulting in the ball being marked as dead.

Note: I'm hoping someone can cite an actual rule on this situation, but opinions are obviously gonna happen. :)
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Here is the team manual, which includes the game rules for both 8 ball and 9 ball:

Go to the bottom of Page 65, where it explains how to score for 9 ball. There, you will find this:
  • Dead Balls: Record any balls not credited to either player (singles) or team (doubles), such as ball(s) made during a scratch, ball(s) made during a foul, or on the table when the 9-ball is made or a stalemate occurs. The 9-ball is never a dead ball. It is spotted.
The bold and italic are added by me, for emphasis.

I'm assuming that you understand the above is based upon the rule that altering the path of a moving cue ball is a foul, which you did acknowledge. The commission of a foul during the shot makes that pocketed ball a dead ball, and ball-in-hand for the opponent.
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Custom and High End Cues on the Decline?

mikemosconi
I think that we should all back up and understand that there are probably four distinct reasons why the custom cue market existed in the first place; 1. One market was for players seeking the best playing cue or a better playing cue.
2. One market was for cue collectors only who collect cues for a variety of reasons
3. One market was for collector/ players who appreciate the hand work and like to explore cue playability characteristics- ( My interests)
4. I would say the fourth market was for profiteers/ resellers of custom cues.

Perhaps reason number one has been eclipsed by the advent of CF/LD shafts
Reason number two still exists, but, I believe, in more limited numbers of people
Reason number three certainly still exists, but again, less people involved in this dual hobby for many reasons
Reason number four still exists, but also more limited in numbers, for obvious reasons- supply and demand.

The pool playing boom of post COM movie brought on many new custom cue makers to the pool scene from late 80s into about 2000 or so. Many of these makers are not in this business any longer- for , again, a variety of reasons that are obvious- both market and non- market related.

I believe that some of the existing more well know makers still have long wait lists of customers- proof that - on any given day- somebody for any of the four reasons stated above, may commission a cue.

I think that Richard Hsu, Hsunami shafts; from a business perspective, has come up with a product that has produced continued long wait times, just for a Hsunami shaft, and this provides him with a very nice income ( his profit on each shaft must be huge compared to his cost), and provides customers with a great shaft ( I bought one) , and excellent resale value for the end user.
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Mosconi Cup 2025, Dec. 3-6, Alexandra Palace, London

jokrswylde
jbart65 said:
Biggest surprise to me on Day Two was Shane Van Boening emerging as the leader. I did not expect that.

But now that he has, I think SVB has to be the leader from now on. Forget that he supposedly doesn't have the personality. He can do it - he just did. He is a lead by example kind of guy.

With Sky in the doubles match, SVB gave him pointers. He also stayed calm and looked confident. Woodward basically shut up and just played. No hamming it up for the crowd. At one point, Shane was saying, it's not over yet. He kept Woodward focused.

I've got a theory about this. Shane was basically forced to take a backseat for the past two years to Gorst and Sky. He wasn't sure what his role should be.

First, Gorst gets on Team USA and he gets scheduled to be the top dog. Jeremy Jones rushed him out in a bunch of singles matches, signaling lack of trust in Shane. And Shane went along without complaint.

Gorst didn't earn the hero-to-be role, and still hasn't.

Next Sky becomes player captain for two years. Thus SVB is shunted to the third position on the team.

Now? All of a sudden, he is stepping up and trying to get the team to focus after the worst start in Mosconi history.

I don't care about SVB's Mosconi record. He is still the best US, and US-born player, and he should be expected to lead given his age and experience. He doesn't have to be a formal leader, but lead he should and must to make the US competitive.

To that end, no more SVB-Gorst pairings. They are not fully comfortable with each other and need to serve as anchor for other players.

The US also has to start showing some strategy and unpredictability in pairings. Backload some matches with our best guys. Throw a Ty or Billy out against Filler. Who knows, they might get lucky, and we'd get SVB or Gorst facing off against an Alcaide or Pijus.
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Good post. Another factor that ties in with your post is that, since the addition of Fedor, and the elevation of Sky, SVB might not feel like he HAS to carry the team. It could be that he is able to play a lot more relaxed just not having to be "Captain America"...
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Diamond pockets specs

rexus31
ShootingArts said:
I have slept a few times since reading this or any of your threads so a sincere question: How many different ball sets have you tried? Clean your balls one at a time by hand.

Start with the cue ball dead center, put one ball beside it, swing your cue ball to the other side of that spacer ball and take it off the table or back in the rack if you need it to complete the rack. Now use 1.5 to 2 tips low, half a tip left, english. If you are left handed, use have a tip right instead of the left. Now forget a hard break. Keep hitting the cue ball slower until you can get an absolute dead center hit on the one ball. Not the front of the cue ball, where a ghost ball would completely shade the one ball. Equal overlap both sides.

Always check for gaps in the rack. If there are any, break into the solid side of the rack trying to put the force away from the gaps.

The break is first about accuracy, more important than speed. I can make a well racked set of balls explode with a half speed break. A dead center hit on the cue ball or half a tip of low will work too. Main thing, always consider how the power is going through the rack.

Probably rehashing stuff I have already said but it is late night and I'm playing rachet jaw. Quit fighting the break and let your cue stick flow into the cue ball. While working on the break a long pause, several seconds, before the final forward stroke is good. Later you can reduce the pause to very little or nothing but the forward stroke should start forward very slowly and accelerate through the cue ball. Think of it as a gathering of force in the arm you are stroking with. Your whole body feeding force to that one arm. If the break doesn't work for you after three or four tries, use your spacer ball to move it over again. Repeat until you get a break. You might try moving the cue ball back to the line across the first diamonds on the side rail too. Break off of the head rail. Try dead center then put your spacer ball dead center and set the cue ball alongside it, only a half ball off the center line. Then try moving the cue ball over one ball width at a time until you find a sweet spot. Bridge off the rail with the cue ball only one diamond out.

Have fun!

Hu
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You are wasting your breath.
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What kind/brand of Mechanics Level to level a Pool Table

rexus31
trob said:
Honest question. Why do you people need to level your table so much? Is it because of the flooring you have them on? I had my diamond delivered almost 3 years ago and it still rolls absolutely perfect. It’s in my garage that has carpet over a concrete floor.
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I'm with you. My Gold Crown I was setup over 5 years ago and still rolls perfect. Same setup: detached garage, concrete floor, carpet tiles and a mini split AC.
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Introducing the new Bitman rack 😳

JolietJames
trob said:
Couldn’t say it better. Even if you own a restaurant and you’re coming up with something new for the menu the last question you always ask is what do we have to charge and will our customers pay that. That’s just basic business . You are very correct someone here forgot that step.
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Once they saw $20+ chalk they probably thought they had a green light for a $500 rack.
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Mosconi Cup 2025, Dec. 3-6, Alexandra Palace, London

J
Biggest surprise to me on Day Two was Shane Van Boening emerging as the leader. I did not expect that.

But now that he has, I think SVB has to be the leader from now on. Forget that he supposedly doesn't have the personality. He can do it - he just did. He is a lead by example kind of guy.

With Sky in the doubles match, SVB gave him pointers. He also stayed calm and looked confident. Woodward basically shut up and just played. No hamming it up for the crowd. At one point, Shane was saying, it's not over yet. He kept Woodward focused.

I've got a theory about this. Shane was basically forced to take a backseat for the past two years to Gorst and Sky. He wasn't sure what his role should be.

First, Gorst gets on Team USA and he gets scheduled to be the top dog. Jeremy Jones rushed him out in a bunch of singles matches, signaling lack of trust in Shane. And Shane went along without complaint.

Gorst didn't earn the hero-to-be role, and still hasn't.

Next Sky becomes player captain for two years. Thus SVB is shunted to the third position on the team.

Now? All of a sudden, he is stepping up and trying to get the team to focus after the worst start in Mosconi history.

I don't care about SVB's Mosconi record. He is still the best US, and US-born player, and he should be expected to lead given his age and experience. He doesn't have to be a formal leader, but lead he should and must to make the US competitive.

To that end, no more SVB-Gorst pairings. They are not fully comfortable with each other and need to serve as anchor for other players.

The US also has to start showing some strategy and unpredictability in pairings. Backload some matches with our best guys. Throw a Ty or Billy out against Filler. Who knows, they might get lucky, and we'd get SVB or Gorst facing off against an Alcaide or Pijus.
Click to expand...

Introducing the new Bitman rack 😳

JolietJames
ShootingArts said:
Catch is I wouldn't let my opponent use a special rack unless I was using it too. I think most people would be that way unless they simply said it couldn't be used. Most equipment has to be preapproved by the rules body, very possibly an issue with a five hundred dollar rack. If it really was better I would outlaw it rather than force everyone to purchase one. That is a hurdle from the jump, unique equipment is usually illegal to use by default.

The only way people are going to buy a five hundred dollar rack is if it increases their win percentage in cold hard cash.

my opinions anyway!

Damn it, already changed my mind. I would gladly give five hundred for a rack,... if it was attached to a young Sophia lookalike!

Hu
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My point was no rack can give someone a powerful break.
Break speed does not come from the rack.
Just pointing out their false advertising.
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Mosconi Cup 2025, Dec. 3-6, Alexandra Palace, London

M
SA96 said:
It won't happen, but if Team USA take today's session 4-1 or 5-0, then tomorrow would start at 6-6 or 7-5...

I wonder if the venue has a curfew?
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It’s not as far fetched as that. Tyler will redeem himself team game can be won with a couple of nice rolls. Svb is favourite against alcaide. Then one of the doubles can be won.
Also - shout out to the person who suggested the gorilla glue- loving it!!
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