Mensabum said:

I prefer open source to profit margins.

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bbb said:

i hope this is helpfull to someone....
View attachment 909081

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tableroll said:

Can you explain the "quiet eye" principle again?

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Bob Jewett said:

I think a major reason players who are learning aiming should look at the object ball last is to see where they land the cue ball on the object ball. For them, I think cue ball last is very bad advice.

As for the OP, it would be interesting to see before and after videos of him shooting including his eye pattern. I wonder if it was the "quiet eye" principle that gave him his perceived improvement.

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AtLarge said:

Good post. Not dissimilar from one I have posted several times in the past:

"For one large set of sports actions, let's call it Category I, the competitor is holding or is attached to a piece of equipment and desires to direct that piece of equipment elsewhere:​

• Throwing a baseball;
• Throwing a football;
• Throwing/shooting a basketball;
• Throwing a dart;
• Rolling a bowling ball;
• Shooting an arrow;
• Shooting a gun;
• Driving a race car;
• Riding a race horse.

In all of these, and many more, the competitor's "last look" is at the target for the ball or dart or car, etc. -- not at the ball (or steering wheel).​

​

For another large set of sports actions, let's call it Category II, the competitor holds one piece of equipment and desires to hit another piece of equipment and direct that second piece of equipment to a desired target or with a certain degree of accuracy:​

• Hitting a baseball;
• Kicking a football;
• Hitting a tennis ball;
• Hitting a golf ball;
• Hitting a ping pong ball;
• Hitting a badminton shuttlecock;
• Striking a volley ball.

In all of these, and many more, the competitor's "last look" is at the ball -- not at the target for that ball and not at the piece of equipment he is holding.​

​

So how about pool/billiards? Isn't it logically a Category II action? We hold one piece of equipment (the cue stick), desiring to strike a second piece of equipment (the cue ball), and send that second piece of equipment to a desired target (a proper hit on the object ball or rail). We are throwing the cue stick in an underhand motion at the cue ball. So "cue ball last" is appropriate, right?​

​

But I am quite sure that the majority (but by no means all) of the top pool players look at the object ball last. If my analogies above are correct, why does "OB last" work so well for so many players? I believe it is because the cue ball is at rest and we can place our cue stick and bridge hand precisely behind it and thereby treat the combination of cue stick and cue ball as almost one piece of equipment instead of two. Then the cuing action becomes similar to a Category I action -- we are throwing the cue stick/ball at the object ball. So "object ball last" works just fine if the cue stick is always precisely delivered to the cue ball.​

​

So either way -- CB last or OB last -- can work well in pool. I believe analogies with other sports argue more closely for CB last (my Category II above), but just a slightly different way of viewing what's happening can create a good Category I argument.​

​

And I would add that many "CB last" folks probably also have the object ball in their peripheral vision while the central focus is on the cue ball."​

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trob said:

Here’s why not many pro’s come on here like cj.. whenever they did poster and try to pass on some information that made them successful a lot of know it all basement champions like you see posting here harass them to the point that they say f it and leave… you

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Jesse Cool said:

I want to talk about cue ball last before stroke compared to other sports that involve striking a ball.

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1. The distant focus helps you maintain the desired aim since you can clearly see what is called the aiming “shot picture” at the OB (where your line of aim is relative to the OB that you see while “aiming while standing“).
2. The distant focus helps you deliver the cue more straight toward your target. This is the case in other sports like with free throws in basketball (with focus on the rim), bowling (with focus on the arrows down the lane), baseball pitching (with focus on the target over the plate), horseshoes (with focus on the stake), and darts, archery, and shooting (with focus on the target), where you always want your final focused gaze to be at the distant target. This helps maintain straight aim and helps ensure straighter implement delivery in the target direction. Although, analogies with other sports are far from perfect (see more below).
3. Focus on the OB helps ensure you keep your head and body still during and after the stroke, instead of looking up from CB focus to see where the CB is heading.
4. With OB focus, you can better diagnose and learn from each shot since you can more clearly see the direction the CB heads and where it hits the OB, without needing to move your eyes or head during the shot.

Jesse Cool said:

I want to talk about cue ball last before stroke compared to other sports that involve striking a ball. Please read on…

I recently made a change to my game that has made a considerable impact to the consistency of my game. I switched from object ball last to focusing solely on the cue ball when striking the ball. I do change to object ball last on certain shots such as when the balls are close together but for the majority it’s cue ball last on 90% of my shots now. The accuracy and consistency of my game has gone up tremendously. This has led me to really start thinking about how others sports focus on the ball they are striking.

I grew up playing baseball and golf from a young age. Obviously these sports involve striking a ball with some type of club. These sports and many others that involve striking a ball, require sole focus on the object you’re hitting. The only difference in these sports compared to pool is, pool requires striking a ball into another ball. When I really think about it, there many things you need to do before the shot if you’re going to take the cue ball last route. One of the most important is to pick your line from standing position and get down into that same line. Although, this is still required even for object ball last. This then leads me to all my years spent in golf. Which I think might be the most closely related sport to pool that requires striking a ball with a club into a hole.

In golf, you must pick your line while standing behind the ball. Once you have done this you get into the same line of the shot with your stance, waggle the club like pre strokes in pool, look up and down from ball to line just like looking back and forth from cueball and object ball, set for a short pause, backswing, and then finally strike the golf ball while having complete focus on the golf ball until contact is made then looking up.

I just found this very interesting when you look at it from another view point. Obviously this subject has been touched on many times but I wanted to have a discussion based on other sports that solely focus on the ball you’re hitting.

To me, it’s really starting to make more sense to focus only on the cue ball when you’re striking it. Once you have made a decision about the whole shot picture, focusing only on the cueball in theory seems to be the most accurate way of hitting the cue ball especially when dialing in specific amounts of english.

I’d like to hear everyone’s creative thoughts. The goal is to use the information and ideas in this thread to improve all of our games.

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SBC said:

You are a pillar of society....that would be laying on the ground if you spoke to me like you write. A real internet tough guy.

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Frosty said:

I don’t have a wife. I have no argument. Lowry doesn’t always hit the mark, he could barbecue you. As I said in my initial post, do what you like, even if it’s wrong. Have a great day

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